Russia rejects extending Iran arms embargo, defies US pressure

[TheImmortal]

the funny part is even in the era of war with iraq our air force has not what it should have been. if revolution happened ~5 year we would get our 300 f-16s and there were talks about additional 80 f-14s. it means with the infrastructure iran had back in 70s we could logistically support a fleet of 780 jets consisting 160 f-5s, 160 f-14s, 160 f-4s and 300 f-16s. now after revolution we made other airports too...

Yes a decade here or there and Iran could still have a formidable airforce, but the result is still the same. At its current rate by 2030 the Iranian airforce will be largely obsolete. So the next 20 years is critical for Iran to build up an emergency airforce (100-150 modern 4th gen fighters) while co developing its own medium and heavy fighter (bomber and interceptor).

Really Iran just needs an interceptor to defend its skies, it can always add an offensive airforce down the road.

Anyway it doesn’t really matter after the war and revolution, the republic was weak. There was still a fear of the airforce by the republic as it was considered a potential coup branch historically.

Thus priority wasn’t made to modernize as quickly. Sure there were some attempts in the 90’s. But much more could have been done back then in terms to securing ToT and engines from former Soviet Union countries. Iran really didn’t try to build a fighter till Shafagh in the 2000’s. By then Russia had stabilized post Soviet Union collapse and Western pressure was too strong.

What has Russia's benefits been for siding with US so far on Iran???

Russia has been able to sell more oil with Iran restricted. If Iran comes online at 3.5 MBPD entire OPEC has to cut back to prevent oversupply.

Russia has also secured an Iran more dependent on it because Iran has no true allies outside of the militias it controls and the decimated SAA neither of which have political clout and economic capabilities.

Russia still got backstabbed on the missile defense shield, but I think they knew all along Us would move ahead with interceptors in Europe.

Also god knows what Russia secured behind the scenes for delaying the S-300 for 10 years.

A more likely option for Iran than the Su-35S would be the Chinese FC-20E (J-10C export variant) that was revealed at the Dubai Airshow this year.

J-10 is a whole lot of meh. Iran has already checked it out and was not impressed by Chinese fighters.

Only way I see Iran getting J-10 is a FULL Tot meaning engines and everything down to the last screw that goes into that plane. In exchange Iran would place a 100 aircraft order.

If Iran goes Chinese it should secure J-31. China is desperate to export it and there are limited buyers as most serious buyers will buy F-35 and less serious buyers are completely content with either F-16s or SU-35s for their defense needs.

So I don’t see many countries lining up to buy J-31, which gives Iran an opportunity/leverage in securing SOME tech as well as a plane built largely from stolen F-35 tech.

 

[Messerschmitt]

J-10 is a whole lot of meh. Iran has already checked it out and was not impressed by Chinese fighters.

Only way I see Iran getting J-10 is a FULL Tot meaning engines and everything down to the last screw that goes into that plane. In exchange Iran would place a 100 aircraft order.

If Iran goes Chinese it should secure J-31. China is desperate to export it and there are limited buyers as most serious buyers will buy F-35 and less serious buyers are completely content with either F-16s or SU-35s for their defense needs.

So I don’t see many countries lining up to buy J-31, which gives Iran an opportunity/leverage in securing SOME tech as well as a plane built largely from stolen F-35 tech.

The FC-20E (J-10C) may not be the most desirable aircraft to procure but adding a number of them to the IRIAF's arsenal would still noticeably improve Iran's defensive and even offensive capabilities. It's a decent 4.5th generation multi-role fighter that is equipped with an AESA radar and EW modules and can be armed with PL-15 BVR AAMs. If the JCPOA formally survives, the arms embargo on Iran is lifted and Russia agrees to sell Iran their Su-30SMEs (despite possible US sanctions) then the FC-20E would be a good complement to those, especially as a replacement of Iran's aging fleet of light fighters. Lots of "ifs"…

 

[TheImmortal]

The FC-20E (J-10C) may not be the most desirable aircraft to procure but adding a number of them to the IRIAF's arsenal would still noticeably improve Iran's defensive and even offensive capabilities. It's a decent 4.5th generation multi-role fighter that is equipped with an AESA radar and EW modules and can be armed with PL-15 BVR AAMs. If the JCPOA formally survives, the arms embargo on Iran is lifted and Russia agrees to sell Iran their Su-30SMEs (despite possible US sanctions) then the FC-20E would be a good complement to those, especially as a replacement of Iran's aging fleet of light fighters. Lots of "ifs"…

Like I said, Iran already inspected j-10 and reports are they weren’t impressed. Maybe if their desperate that changes things. But I would be hard pressed to see Iran agree to it unless FULL ToT is given, especially in light of all the technology China has shared with Pakistan.

Also it is a bit stupid to build the bulk of your airforce on an Chinese aircraft that has never seen extensive combat. The major questions surrounding Chinese fighters is reliability and capability outside of what the Communist state tells the world.

Say what you want about SU series aircraft, but they have a massive track record as a company. Hence why they secure so many orders and China secures very little.

Nobody is lining up to buy Chinese planes.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Like I said, Iran already inspected j-10 and reports are they weren’t impressed. Maybe if their desperate that changes things. But I would be hard pressed to see Iran agree to it unless FULL ToT is given, especially in light of all the technology China has shared with Pakistan.

Also it is a bit stupid to build the bulk of your airforce on an Chinese aircraft that has never seen extensive combat. The major questions surrounding Chinese fighters is reliability and capability outside of what the Communist state tells the world.

Say what you want about SU series aircraft, but they have a massive track record as a company. Hence why they secure so many orders and China secures very little.

Nobody is lining up to buy Chinese planes.

Su-30SM is size of F-14. J-10C is size of F-16. I wouldn't be surprised if Iran goes for Su-30SM and J-10C in a hi lo combo.

 

[TheImmortal]

Su-30SM is size of F-14. J-10C is size of F-16. I wouldn't be surprised if Iran goes for Su-30SM and J-10C in a hi lo combo.

Iran doesn’t buy aircraft due to size they buy aircraft for their role.

SU-30/35 are air defense fighters. J-10 is multi-role mostly offensive fighter.

Iran needs interceptors to defend its airspace in any war scenario to take the pressure off of air defense units on the ground.

It is not looking to send J-10’s to Baboon Arabia and PG states, that’s what it’s missile force is for. Not to mention F-4 can fufill the air to ground campaign already.

Iran’s first priority should be securing either 5th gen tech (J-31) or interceptor tech and aircraft. Any multi role and offensive fighter can wait for later. That’s not the priority.

I’d rather Iran have a dedicated interceptor fighter than a multi role jack of all trades fighter than will get smoked by a rival dedicated interceptor.

Remember whatever Iran buys needs to serve for next 20-25 years.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Iran doesn’t buy aircraft due to size they buy aircraft for their role.

SU-30/35 are air defense fighters. J-10 is multi-role mostly offensive fighter.

Iran needs interceptors to defend its airspace in any war scenario to take the pressure off of air defense units on the ground.

It is not looking to send J-10’s to Baboon Arabia and PG states, that’s what it’s missile force is for. Not to mention F-4 can fufill the air to ground campaign already.

Iran’s first priority should be securing either 5th gen tech (J-31) or interceptor tech and aircraft. Any multi role and offensive fighter can wait for later. That’s not the priority.

I’d rather Iran have a dedicated interceptor fighter than a multi role jack of all trades fighter than will get smoked by a rival dedicated interceptor.

Remember whatever Iran buys needs to serve for next 20-25 years.

Iran mainland spans 2200+ km. They need a plane with great range. Su-30 / 35 can do that. J-10 lacks the range.

 

[TheImmortal]

Iran mainland spans 2200+ km. They need a plane with great range. Su-30 / 35 can do that. J-10 lacks the range.

thank you for proving my point. j-10 is borderline useless for Iran. Yes it would be nice to have a F-16 like fighter jet. But it would get smoked by F-35 and F-22 hunting them down like cattle.

Only hope is a peer rival like SU-30/35, SU-57, J-31, J-20

Any other fighter is mostly just “look we added new toys” type of move. Iran knows that’s useless.

Now if the China says “here is full transfer of all technology for J-10, it’s engines, radars, weapons, and avionics” then yes Iran should accept because it will boost its own defense projects by decades by finally having acess to modern fighter to base a next gen fighter on.

Anything short of full ToT....screw China.

 

[Hack-Hook]

How so? Iran needs to retire its aging F-14 fleet. Su-30SM is a big plane that replaces it.

SU-30sm is a side grade to f-14 not an upgrade . to be honest i even doubt it be a side grade

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

SU-30sm is a side grade to f-14 not an upgrade . to be honest i even doubt it be a side grade

F-14 was ahead of its time, but hasn't been used since 2006.

 

[Hack-Hook]

F-14 was ahead of its time, but hasn't been used since 2006.

Political reason nothing else . and only USA decided to abandon it iran didn't made such decision.

 

[TheImmortal]

SU-30sm is a side grade to f-14 not an upgrade . to be honest i even doubt it be a side grade

F-14’s won’t be able to stand the sortie rate needed from them. These are 40 year old airframes. So based on airframe alone SU-30 is a huge upgrade.

Iran will not be able to keep F-14’s flying for long during war as each sortie results in more and more maintenance.

That was the flaw of F-14, was the extensive maintenance required.

Plus you cannot expect 24 or 36 F-14’s (don’t remember how many are actually flying still) to defend the airspace 24/7 against 150+ fighters.

F-14’s need all the help they can get and should be in a long range strike and AWACS role while SU-30 do active hunting.

Iran needs 100 SU-30s, but more importantly hardened bases and shelters. Also upon threat of war 75% of the fleet should be able to get into the air at moments notice to prevent destruction at hands of cruise missiles.

 

[GWXP]

Arms embargo will be relieved. But the question is----- does Iran need foreign weapons.... since Iran can produce everything by its own without the need to spend hard currency for overpriced foreign weapons.

For UAVs--Iran is more advanced than Russia

For tank---Iran has Karrar and Sabalan

For infantry mechanization-----Iranian MRAPs and probably APCs and IFV will be unveiled in near future

Iran builds various MLRSs

For helicopter-----Toufan and Shahed 216 project under development

For missiles---Iran builds ballistic and cruise missiles

For anti-ship missiles----Iran builds various types of anti-ship missiles and anti-ship ballistic missile.

For air defenses-----Herz-9, Raad, Talash and Bavar 373

For ships---Iran build corvettes, frigates, Fateh submarines and 7000 ton destroyer is under development together with 3000tons advanced submarine

For trainer aircraft--Iran builds modernized F-5 and Yasin trainer

SO THE ONLY THING IRAN CAN BUY ---IS FIGHTER AIRCRAFT

Through, I'm not against Iran buying some limited number of T-90, M-28s, some submarines----just to compare them with Iranian analogs.



Regarding fighter aircraft----YOU PEOPLE LIVE IN THE LAST CENTURY when you propose buying Mig-35, J-10 or even Su-30-----THESE AIRCRAFTS HAVE NO FUTURE. We are living in 21st century and entire world is rearming to 5th generation fighters----by 2027 5th generation fighters in the air forces of many countries will become a normality.

WAKE UP----USA is about to mass produce F-35 at a rate of 150 F-35s per year.....Israel is buying 120 F-35s. Turkey develops TF-X 5 generation fighter and dreams of buying either F-35 or Su-57....Russia is buying Su-57 and China will mass produce J-20 and J-31.....

The aircraft Iran should buy is either J-31 or Su-57----there is no other alternative, because in times when the entire world is about to mass deploy 5th generation fighters--CRAP like Mig-35, J-10 or Su-30 has no future......If Iran buys aircraft it should serve until at least 2050...and the only aircraft that can serve this long is J-31 or Su-57

There are people who say that Iran can't handle 5th generation fighter----that 5th generation is too advanced for Iran.....To them I say, that if tiny Israel and Turkey are able to handle F-35, then Iran can handle J-31 as well.

For choosing Iranian future fighter aircraft Iran should look at long term future perspective-(until 2050)-----and 5th generation fighter like J-31 or Su-57 is the only option.

 

[Sineva]

According to our Zionist friend Babak Taghvaee Iran wanted to buy 18 Su-35S and 8 Su-30SME but Russia refused. In turn, Russia offered Iran the MiG-35 with Zhuk-ME radar and Su-27SM3 but Iran refused.


It is still better for Iran to have a capable Air force than not having one, especially for deterrence against Israel and the Gulf countries. Sure, the USAF could decimate even a formidable IRIAF consisting of 200-300 modern Russian fighter jets in all-out war but a strong IRIAF could make even a limited campaign by the US against Iran less likely if the US deem the potential casualties to be too high or not worth it.

If babak taghvaee told me that the sun was going to rise tomorrow morning I`d still get a second opinion.For instance he claimed that iran had already received su27sm3s from russia in 2017.[LOL!]
This guy is a literal joke.

 

[Mithridates]

F-14 was ahead of its time, but hasn't been used since 2006.

there is no alternative for f-14, unless su-35 deal procured. for long range interception of enemy AWACs and tanker/bombers.

 

[Hack-Hook]

F-14’s won’t be able to stand the sortie rate needed from them. These are 40 year old airframes. So based on airframe alone SU-30 is a huge upgrade.

Iran will not be able to keep F-14’s flying for long during war as each sortie results in more and more maintenance.

That was the flaw of F-14, was the extensive maintenance required.

Plus you cannot expect 24 or 36 F-14’s (don’t remember how many are actually flying still) to defend the airspace 24/7 against 150+ fighters.

F-14’s need all the help they can get and should be in a long range strike and AWACS role while SU-30 do active hunting.

Iran needs 100 SU-30s, but more importantly hardened bases and shelters. Also upon threat of war 75% of the fleet should be able to get into the air at moments notice to prevent destruction at hands of cruise missiles.

Iran Don't need su-30 . it's old airframe that it's only offer numerical assurance . it won't add to capabilities . the plane is the same generation as f-14 that actually is less capable . it only advantage is less maintenance and ability to drop bombs.it can't even provide advantage over f-16 let not talk about f-15 that it is supposed to counter.