Russia rejects extending Iran arms embargo, defies US pressure

[Shams313]

Iran doesn’t buy aircraft due to size they buy aircraft for their role.

SU-30/35 are air defense fighters. J-10 is multi-role mostly offensive fighter.

Iran needs interceptors to defend its airspace in any war scenario to take the pressure off of air defense units on the ground.

It is not looking to send J-10’s to Baboon Arabia and PG states, that’s what it’s missile force is for. Not to mention F-4 can fufill the air to ground campaign already.

Iran’s first priority should be securing either 5th gen tech (J-31) or interceptor tech and aircraft. Any multi role and offensive fighter can wait for later. That’s not the priority.

I’d rather Iran have a dedicated interceptor fighter than a multi role jack of all trades fighter than will get smoked by a rival dedicated interceptor.

Remember whatever Iran buys needs to serve for next 20-25 years.

to me su 30 be most likely and there's also probability for su 35. in case of su 30 i hope they will go for upgraded avionics and AESA radars. although su 35 has an AESA radar.

and i agree, intercepting ability is crucial for iran right now with longer coverage and thus, su 30/35 wins over
j 10

 

[Mithridates]

Iran Don't need su-30 . it's old airframe that it's only offer numerical assurance . it won't add to capabilities . the plane is the same generation as f-14 that actually is less capable . it only advantage is less maintenance and ability to drop bombs.it can't even provide advantage over f-16 let not talk about f-15 that it is supposed to counter.

my friend su-30's ferry range is 7000 km, it's radar range is 350 km and max payload of 8000 kg. with 8 ton it can travel 1200 km. f-4 with 2 ton payload has a combat range of 820 km.
most of us do not think about the main factor of any plane which is it's range.

 

[VEVAK]

if Russia or China stand by this until the end it will be a huge change for us but in other hand US is known to offer them big deals to get them on board some sanction relief for China and Russia will bring them more billions then Iran can ever give them

Overall I don't see the removal of arms embargo against Iran beneficial to us (Iran) anyways. At least not yet! We still have some ways to go before our weapons industry is ready for export in all fields so the removal of arms embargo at this point will do more harm than good.
Fact is, one of the main reasons Iran is as strong as it is today is directly due to the weapons embargos that forced us to develop our own defense industry which then allowed us to produce weapons at a fraction of the cost of what it would have cost us to purchase them.
So if the embargos are removed prematurely there will be some in Iran that will wanna take the easy way out and buy weapons rather than invest in our own infrastructure, we'll have politicians who rather than thinking about Iran's own defense industry will be after getting commissions of weapons purchases, there will be foreign lobby groups who will lobbying Iranian politician in the majlis to back import of various weapons...… And all these things combined will spell disaster for our own defense industry.....

 

[skyshadow]

Overall I don't see the removal of arms embargo against Iran beneficial to us (Iran) anyways. At least not yet! We still have some ways to go before our weapons industry is ready for export in all fields so the removal of arms embargo at this point will do more harm than good.
Fact is, one of the main reasons Iran is as strong as it is today is directly due to the weapons embargos that forced us to develop our own defense industry which then allowed us to produce weapons at a fraction of the cost of what it would have cost us to purchase them.
So if the embargos are removed prematurely there will be some in Iran that will wanna take the easy way out and buy weapons rather than invest in our own infrastructure, we'll have politicians who rather than thinking about Iran's own defense industry will be after getting commissions of weapons purchases, there will be foreign lobby groups who will lobbying Iranian politician in the majlis to back import of various weapons...… And all these things combined will spell disaster for our own defense industry.....

agreed but remember army dose not buy our weapons either and IRGC does not buy foreign weapons so what are we going to do, if a country like Iraq and Syria order 50-100 Karrar tanks that will be a huge step for our weapons industry too, you know army will never order 500 Karrar tanks

 

[TheImmortal]

Iran Don't need su-30 . it's old airframe that it's only offer numerical assurance . it won't add to capabilities . the plane is the same generation as f-14 that actually is less capable . it only advantage is less maintenance and ability to drop bombs.it can't even provide advantage over f-16 let not talk about f-15 that it is supposed to counter.

There is so much wrong with this statement I won’t even bother debating this topic with someone this uninformed.

Overall I don't see the removal of arms embargo against Iran beneficial to us (Iran) anyways. At least not yet! We still have some ways to go before our weapons industry is ready for export in all fields so the removal of arms embargo at this point will do more harm than good.
Fact is, one of the main reasons Iran is as strong as it is today is directly due to the weapons embargos that forced us to develop our own defense industry which then allowed us to produce weapons at a fraction of the cost of what it would have cost us to purchase them.
So if the embargos are removed prematurely there will be some in Iran that will wanna take the easy way out and buy weapons rather than invest in our own infrastructure, we'll have politicians who rather than thinking about Iran's own defense industry will be after getting commissions of weapons purchases, there will be foreign lobby groups who will lobbying Iranian politician in the majlis to back import of various weapons...… And all these things combined will spell disaster for our own defense industry.....

Iran’s military industry is much larger than all of Israel’s combined! Straight from Israeli most powerful military chief! Fact is Iran pumps out MANY projects, but most of them are never funded by military or IRGC.

So I disagree with your assessment whole heartedly. Iran is bent on developing its domestic industry, but to do that it constantly needs to be injected with new technologies. Iran’s Radar industry has gotten big boost form reverse engineering the latest in Russian and Chinese radars.

So yes Iran needs access to new technologies in order to reverse engineer them. You don’t magically learn to build a SU-30 from staring at an F-5 for 30 years.

China routinely buys foreign arms in order to reverse engineer them. And Chinese defense arm is much more robust than Iran in terms of capability of building something from scratch.

Do you think Iran could build Soumar missile if it didn’t have Kh-55’s to learn from? Answer is NO!

Also Iran will NEVER in the foreseeable future be able to buy arms from JUST other countries because Iran does not have the capital to do so! Even if embargo falls tomm, Iran won’t be able to purchase more than 10 billion dollars worth of arms! That is nothing!

 

[VEVAK]

There is so much wrong with this statement I won’t even bother debating this topic with someone this uninformed.



Iran’s military industry is much larger than all of Israel’s combined! Straight from Israeli most powerful military chief! Fact is Iran pumps out MANY projects, but most of them are never funded by military or IRGC.

So I disagree with your assessment whole heartedly. Iran is bent on developing its domestic industry, but to do that it constantly needs to be injected with new technologies. Iran’s Radar industry has gotten big boost form reverse engineering the latest in Russian and Chinese radars.

So yes Iran needs access to new technologies in order to reverse engineer them. You don’t magically learn to build a SU-30 from staring at an F-5 for 30 years.

China routinely buys foreign arms in order to reverse engineer them. And Chinese defense arm is much more robust than Iran in terms of capability of building something from scratch.

Do you think Iran could build Soumar missile if it didn’t have Kh-55’s to learn from? Answer is NO!

Also Iran will NEVER in the foreseeable future be able to buy arms from JUST other countries because Iran does not have the capital to do so! Even if embargo falls tomm, Iran won’t be able to purchase more than 10 billion dollars worth of arms! That is nothing!

It's not that Iran doesn't have the funds, Iran has the funds we simply underfund our military and we can get away with underfundinig our own military because we produce our own weapons at a fractoni of the cost. The figures below are from BBC so they are not from some pro Iranian site.....

With the U.S. hostilities towards Iran growing and the fact that we have banned ourselves from developing a nuclear deterrent our defense spending should have at least doubled as a counter towards growing us hostilities and rather than our current 2.7% expenditure it should have been increased to ~5.5% of our GDP and closer to $30 Billion.... And clearly the money is there we just need better leadership that would better invests in domestic production and in the development of our infrastructure to get us adequately ready for the lifting of the weapons embargo so that way our defense industry would both be ready for export and our defense industry would be too big to fail with so many jobs dependent on it that no politician would ever dare the backlash and outcry of importing weapons.

Also, Iran doesn't need the sanctions lifted to buy small quantities of weapons on the black market for reverse engineering plus for reverse engineering we can make due by buying components of modern weapon system to revers engineer...… And yes when it comes to Air Superiority fighters we have way's to go but at our current growth rate I'm willing to bet that within the next 2 decades if left alone Iran will again shock the world.....

 

[TheImmortal]

It's not that Iran doesn't have the funds, Iran has the funds we simply underfund our military and we can get away with underfundinig our own military because we produce our own weapons at a fractoni of the cost. The figures below are from BBC so they are not from some pro Iranian site.....

View attachment 597578

With the U.S. hostilities towards Iran growing and the fact that we have banned ourselves from developing a nuclear deterrent our defense spending should have at least doubled as a counter towards growing us hostilities and rather than our current 2.7% expenditure it should have been increased to ~5.5% of our GDP and closer to $30 Billion.... And clearly the money is there we just need better leadership that would better invests in domestic production and in the development of our infrastructure to get us adequately ready for the lifting of the weapons embargo so that way our defense industry would both be ready for export and our defense industry would be too big to fail with so many jobs dependent on it that no politician would ever dare the backlash and outcry of importing weapons.

Also, Iran doesn't need the sanctions lifted to buy small quantities of weapons on the black market for reverse engineering plus for reverse engineering we can make due by buying components of modern weapon system to revers engineer...… And yes when it comes to Air Superiority fighters we have way's to go but at our current growth rate I'm willing to bet that within the next 2 decades if left alone Iran will again shock the world.....

Nonsense and rubbish.

Rule of thumb is a country spends 2% to maybe 3% of its GDP on military.

You asking for nearly 6% is not in the realm of reality, even China in the 80’s and 90’s did not spend that much.

Iran is spending as much as it SHOULD on its military in relation to its economy. Anymore and you are feeding the military industrial complex.

Plus IRGC has ability to tap into billions of dollars from its conglomerates and black market operations (drug/alcohol/arms trade).

So again Iran will never be able to buy arms from just outside because it does not have the capital to do so in relation to its economy.

 

[VEVAK]

Nonsense and rubbish.

Rule of thumb is a country spends 2% to maybe 3% of its GDP on military.

You asking for nearly 6% is not in the realm of reality, even China in the 80’s and 90’s did not spend that much.

Iran is spending as much as it SHOULD on its military in relation to its economy. Anymore and you are feeding the military industrial complex.

Plus IRGC has ability to tap into billions of dollars from its conglomerates and black market operations (drug/alcohol/arms trade).

So again Iran will never be able to buy arms from just outside because it does not have the capital to do so in relation to its economy.

Rule of thumb is that you spend 2-3% during peace time and under normal condition! Not when an enemy has built 30 bases surrounding your borders, has sanctioned your economy including your oil industry, constantly violates your airspace, targets and assassinates your scientist and your military personal, is flooding your region with weapons, continues to carry out sabotage.

So no Iran is NOT under normal conditions to only spend 2-3%