Revenge of Amarnath Yatra Attack started

[OnlyTheTruth]

You're losing the point which these people are making. Reading western books and eastern literature on communism or socialism isn't the basic entry point to becoming a revolutionary. The point is that the fighters are rebelling against India claiming that they want independence or unification with Pakistan for Kashmir. Does that constitute terrorism or rebellion to you? If for example, these fighters abandoned the Q'uran and started reading Mein Kamph, will that then qualify them as rebels instead of terrorist in your eyes?

You didn't understand my point as well. Bhagat Singh had the first hand knowledge of what he was doing, he was not spoon fed and brain washed like the present day terrorists. These Facebook-generation terrorists are uneducated, can be easily motivated by the hardline elements.

 

[Afzal2010]

You didn't understand my point as well. Bhagat Singh had the first hand knowledge of what he was doing, he was not spoon fed and brain washed like the present day terrorists. These Facebook-generation terrorists are uneducated, can be easily motivated by the hardline elements.

I watched a movie on Bhagat Singh the other night. Contrary to what you say, he was manipulated and "spoonfed". He initially was a Congress supporter but lost faith in Gandhi after Gandhi abandoned the boycott. He then was convinced ("spoonfed..brainwashed" ? ) at university by the radicals to join their cause. Having said that, what makes these people "terrorists" and not "rebels" in your eyes? Or are you just being subjective?

 

[third eye]

The point is that the fighters are rebelling against India claiming that they want independence or unification with Pakistan for Kashmir. Does that constitute terrorism or rebellion to you?

What a man or men want does not constitute rebellion.

The means adopted , the acts undertaken & the open support ( men , material & funds) given by Pakistan to ferment trouble does.

Everyone has a right to demand change. In India, change takes place through the ballot , those who chose the bullet are naturally termed terrorists & dealt with accordingly . More so when they attack & kill unarmed civilians and / or challenge the state using weapons.

 

[Zhukov]

I am not suggesting anything. Just here to learn and to query. As I stated in the intro forum, I am doing a thesis on the after effects of partition of a country and I choose British Colonial India as my topic which includes Kashmir and the dispute there. My query was simply this...there seems to be no benefit in formenting any armed rebellion (which India claims Pakistan is doing) since it is getting neither the Pakistanis nor the Kashmiris anywhere (read my earlier post). There are many injustices in the world and Kashmir maybe one of them but the point is that it isn't resolvable and certainly not by way of any armed rebellion for my earlier reasons. All which is happening is that the youth and the residents of that province is suffering. There doesn't seem to be any chance of any plebiscite considering the comments on the internet and particularly this forum by Indians. So, my query is simply this, in the absence of any success of the armed rebellion and the absence of any chances of India and Pakistan going to war over Kashmir, what are the other possible solutions to benefit the people of that area?

This is exactly where you are getting wrong. You are assuming that whatever is happening in Indian Administered kashmir is Pakistan formenting something. And Something that Pakistan is doing if Pakistan Stop doing that Something then Kashmir will be a honeymoon. That very assumption is wrong what can i argue further.
First recognize that Kashmiri Demands are internal and they relate to What India it self is doing with kashmiris both militarily and politically and this Decent against Delhi rule is now among the Kashmiris who are third generation into being born under Indian administration.

there is only one Peace full solution to this crisis. Do as locals want. I am not saying give it to either side. Just ask them. they want freedom they want to be with India They want to be with Pakistan? Whatever they want just give them by asking them via Plebiscite.
Or else INDIA will keep killing Kashmiris forever. And this will keep like this due to INDIA. And Pakistani Kashmir will remain Peaceful and Most beautiful tourist attraction for everyone as it is now.
Thats your answer. Pakistan have to answer nothing the peace on our side speaks for itself no riot no problem no army on streets in towns no killings. Ask Indians and i am sure you will not get such a "Kashmiri People" Centric answer as i and all other Pakistani Members are giving you

See all these Indians on this forum? Do they have any right to represent people of kashmir the level of hate they have inside them. On the contrary Pakistani Love Kashmiris. We both started from ground zero in 1947 right? Why is that after 70 years Indians Hate Kashmiris and Pakistanis Love Kashmiris and Vice Versa Kashmiris Love Pakistan Muzaffarabad Rawlakot are most peacefull cities you can find in Northern Subcontinent while Indian Kashmir is always Riots protests casualties?

 

[OnlyTheTruth]

I watched a movie on Bhagat Singh the other night. Contrary to what you say, he was manipulated and "spoonfed". He initially was a Congress supporter but lost faith in Gandhi after Gandhi abandoned the boycott. He then was convinced ("spoonfed..brainwashed" ? ) at university by the radicals to join their cause. Having said that, what makes these people "terrorists" and not "rebels" in your eyes? Or are you just being subjective?

Bhagat Singh dabbled in different ideologies starting from the Ghadar Party and his attraction towards the INC, experimenting with anarchism before finally finding his call in communism. This progression is a function of his intellect, now compare this to the militants of the Kashmir valley. Boys and girls shunning education, brought up on a daily dose of hatred towards the Indian republic by those who are supposed to teach them basic tenets of their religion. They are turning the Kashmiri children into zombies, without the capacity to think and judge for themselves.

And call them whatever you like them to be, freedom fighters,militants, terrorists or even revolutionaries!

 

[Afzal2010]

This is exactly where you are getting wrong. You are assuming that whatever is happening in Indian Administered kashmir is Pakistan formenting something. And Something that Pakistan is doing if Pakistan Stop doing that Something then Kashmir will be a honeymoon. That very assumption is wrong what can i argue further.
First recognize that Kashmiri Demands are internal and they relate to What India it self is doing with kashmiris both militarily and politically and this Decent against Delhi rule is now among the Kashmiris who are third generation into being born under Indian administration.

there is only one Peace full solution to this crisis. Do as locals want. I am not saying give it to either side. Just ask them. they want freedom they want to be with India They want to be with Pakistan? Whatever they want just give them by asking them via Plebiscite.
Or else INDIA will keep killing Kashmiris forever. And this will keep like this due to INDIA. And Pakistani Kashmir will remain Peaceful and Most beautiful tourist attraction for everyone as it is now.
Thats your answer. Pakistan have to answer nothing the peace on our side speaks for itself no riot no problem no army on streets in towns no killings. Ask Indians and i am sure you will not get such a "Kashmiri People" Centric answer as i and all other Pakistani Members are giving you

See all these Indians on this forum? Do they have any right to represent people of kashmir the level of hate they have inside them. On the contrary Pakistani Love Kashmiris. We both started from ground zero in 1947 right? Why is that after 70 years Indians Hate Kashmiris and Pakistanis Love Kashmiris and Vice Versa Kashmiris Love Pakistan Muzaffarabad Rawlakot are most peacefull cities you can find in Northern Subcontinent while Indian Kashmir is always Riots protests casualties?

I don't want to debate at length since I don't have my facts together and rely on my research and google for my facts, whilst you living in that area would know better than me. Firstly, it seems that it is accepted that Pakistan funds and arms the rebellion in IoK? Are you saying that's untrue?

Secondly, I agree with you that the Indians do seem to hold the bellicose attitude that for Kashmiris it is either their way or the highway. That doesn't alter the ground realities though which simply is that neither armed rebellion nor war will liberate the Kashmiris. And as I stated, no plebiscite seems to be a reality in the future.

I also checked my notes and it would seem that the GDP of IoK is much higher (some ten times I believe) than Azad Kashmir and that the tourism despite the Indian occupation is higher in IoK than in Azad Kashmir. I can't seem to find any reason for this.

 

[Mugwop]

Not everyone.. Only those who kiss pakistani ***.

All indian members here kiss the fattest part of Pakistani a**

 

[third eye]

there is only one Peace full solution to this crisis. Do as locals want. I am not saying give it to either side. Just ask them. they want freedom they want to be with India They want to be with Pakistan? Whatever they want just give them by asking them via Plebiscite.

Do as the locals want ? Who are the ' locals' ? Who represents them ?

Let their leaders contest the next elections, gain a majority ( which going by your assumption) should not be a problem . Then seek & make changes. It may appear strange to non Indians but in India the Constitution is supreme, the nation runs by it. That too is changed when a majority demands.

Or else INDIA will keep killing Kashmiris forever.

Those who raise a weapon will be responded to in Kind.

On the contrary Pakistani Love Kashmiris

Heartwarming stuff.

It may be a great idea to grant citizenship to the Kashmiris Pakistan loves. India will be happy to part with them.

 

[Mugwop]

What happened to all the old strict rules?
Supporting terriosts openly .. No one seems to care
@moderators @WebMaster

Those rules also apply to sadists

 

[Afzal2010]

Do as the locals want ? Who are the ' locals' ? Who represents them ?

Let their leaders contest the next elections, gain a majority ( which going by your assumption) should not be a problem . Then seek & make changes. It may appear strange to non Indians but in India the Constitution is supreme, the nation runs by it. That too is changed when a majority demands.



Those who raise a weapon will be responded to in Kind.


Heartwarming stuff.

It may be a great idea to grant citizenship to the Kashmiris Pakistan loves. India will be happy to part with them.

Are you saying that if the majority party in Kashmir (who wins a State election) demands independence then India will be compelled to accept in terms of its constitution ?

 

[third eye]

I also checked my notes and it would seem that the GDP of IoK is much higher (some ten times I believe) than Azad Kashmir and that the tourism despite the Indian occupation is higher in IoK than in Azad Kashmir. I can't seem to find any reason for this.

Here lies the rub, the facts are in between the lines that are told.

Despite all what is made to believe , the tourist traffic to J&K is very high .

 

[Afzal2010]

Here lies the rub, the facts are in between the lines that are told.

Despite all what is made to believe , the tourist traffic to J&K is very high .

Yes, 13.4billion US $ in 2013. That is a high figure. Please answer my query about independence

 

[third eye]

Are you saying that if the majority party in Kashmir (who wins a State election) demands independence then India will be compelled to accept in terms of its constitution ?

Kashmir is not a state, its one of the three regions of the State of J&K - the other being Laddakh & Jammu. The remainder is occupied by Pakistan.

The majority to begin with has to be in the State Assembly ,The Kashmir Valley region has 46 seats, the Jammu region has 37 seats and the Laddakh region has 4 seats. A simple math with indicate options.

 

[OnlyTheTruth]

Are you saying that if the majority party in Kashmir (who wins a State election) demands independence then India will be compelled to accept in terms of its constitution ?

The very first few articles of the Indian Constitution says that 'INDIA IS AN INDESTRUCTIBLE UNION OF DESTRUCTIBLE STATES'. And that includes Azad Kashmir and GB as well. So yeah, after we are done with JnK, we are coming for you as well. Don't think that Pakistan alone is adept in playing the waiting game.

 

[Afzal2010]

Kashmir is not a state, its one of the three regions of the State of J&K - the other being Laddakh & Jammu. The remainder is occupied by Pakistan.

The majority to begin with has to be in the State Assembly ,The Kashmir Valley region has 46 seats, the Jammu region has 37 seats and the Laddakh region has 4 seats. A simple math with indicate options.

Okay, as I said earlier, forgive my ignorance on specifics. If the majority of the people in the State of J&K voted for a party which asked for independence from India, what does your constitution have to say about that ?

The very first few articles of the Indian Constitution says that 'INDIA IS AN INDESTRUCTIBLE UNION OF DESTRUCTIBLE STATES'. And that includes Azad Kashmir and GB as well. So yeah, after we are done with JnK, we are coming for you as well. Don't think that Pakistan alone is adept in playing the waiting game.

Please answer my question. I am not a Pakistani and in fact have never been anywhere in Pakistan my entire life, if that dispels any qualms which you may have about me