What's new

Revealed: Trump's $110 billion weapons list for the Saudis

Industries and institutions take decades to establish.

Mere assembling parts isn't the definition of industry.

Even people of venatu can assemble stuff if given proper means.

But they can manufacture or produce something themselves , because they lack infrastructure,institutions,skilled manpower,R&D.

One can't jump from importing small arms directly to making tanks.. jist coz he can now assemble an APC.

Nobody is jumping from point A to point Z. It's a long process and KSA has kickstarted it and will continue on this journey until the goals have been achieved. The beginning has already been positive and there is much reason to be optimistic. KSA is kickstarting this project from a much better and more privileged position than many other nations.

You will see the fruits in the future.

As for Arab military industries, read post 88. A question of the right environment, political will and time and nothing else.
 
Nobody is jumping from point A to point Z. It's a long process and KSA has kickstarted it and will continue on this journey until the goals have been achieved. The beginning has already been positive and there is much reason to be optimistic. KSA is kickstarting this project from a much better and more privileged position than many other nations.
Ok sure.

So it's 2017.... can you even assemble an Abrams let alone develop a tank?

Or can you produce a guidance kit for a dumb bomb?

Forget shipyards or even developing armour,tank guns or other equipment?

The sad reality is that you have no industrial capability to even assemble stuff as of right now and you somehow believe that foreign suppliers will somehow reach you to build stuff?

Sorry homes, at most they would allow you to assemble some weapons under supervision...
 
I hope so , at least it will not be 100% waste of money but i have no doubt, Trump is not going to lose his leverage on your monarchs. He needs your dollars to compensate 20 trillion debt. In the next 10 years, the same upgaradation with delivery of some air defence systems, apparently nothing more will happen.

I have never ranted against Arabian people, thanks for your answer. I say these monarchies could make that deal with Muslim countries like Pakistan. Why not? It could help Muslim nations, believe me i would be praising the deal if the other side was a Muslim country. I hate monarchs by the way not the people of those fellow countries.
I understand your concern for that amount of money, but Pakistan or even China won't be able to provide that kind of Quality weapon systems to KSA.. take for example the Iranian F-14 Tomcats, despite being 40 years old,. they still form the backbone of the Iranian air force.. do you understand what I mean?
And do not forget that despite these deals with the US, KSA is still helping Pakistan in mant fields including the defence one, signed many civilian and military deals with China worth some $60 billion during the last visit of king Salman to China, and many JVs and projects with Turkey worth billions of dollars..it is helping Morocco to establish a defence Industry with $20 billion dollars, helping Jordan, Egypt and Sudan, Malaysia and Indonesia.. KSA is a very heavy weight in the Muslim world as well as in the world in general with its sovereign wealth ranging up to $3 trillion dollars..
If I was you I won't worry much about Pakistan with the CPEC in progress now and a Saudi helping hand in any difficult circumstances..I would also like you to know that interests alone of the almost $1 trillion dollars Saudi investments in the US brought about $400 billion dollars in the last 10 years.. So, no worries there..
 
Ok sure.

So it's 2017.... can you even assemble an Abrams let alone develop a tank?

Or can you produce a guidance kit for a dumb bomb?

Forget shipyards or even developing armour,tank guns or other equipment?

@The SC it's your turn as I don't bother and I don't have the time currently or patience. Kindly include that news of KSA (Aramco) building the largest shipyard in the region in the Eastern Province as well. Or the aircraft factory near Riyadh.

http://www.tradearabia.com/news/IND_325866.html

http://www.straitstimes.com/business/companies-markets/aramco-to-build-gulfs-largest-shipyard

I understand your concern for that amount of money, but Pakistan or even China won't be able to provide that kind of Quality weapon systems to KSA.. take for example the Iranian F-14 Tomcats, despite being 40 years old,. they still form the backbone of the Iranian air force.. do you understand what I mean?
And do not forget that despite these deals with the US, KSA is still helping Pakistan in mant fields including the defence one, signed many civilian and military deals with China worth some $60 billion during the last visit of king Salman to China, and many JVs and projects with Turkey worth billions of dollars..it is helping Morocco to establish a defence Industry with $20 billion dollars, helping Jordan, Egypt and Sudan, Malaysia and Indonesia.. KSA is a very heavy weight in the Muslim world as well as in the world in general with its sovereign wealth ranging up to $3 trillion dollars..
If I was you I won't worry much about Pakistan with the CPEC in progress now and a Saudi helping hand in any difficult circumstances..I would also like you to know that interests alone of the almost $1 trillion dollars Saudi investments in the US brought about $400 billion dollars in the last 10 years.. So, no worries there..

Don't bother bro.
 
@The SC it's your turn as I don't bother and I don't have the time currently or patience. Kindly include that news of KSA building the largest shipyard in the region in the Eastern Province as well.
Can you build a 300 ton MPV? Or have you ever built one under license ?

Pak a poor country will selling large cargo ships in the 80s and 90s.

Trust me if we had that much oil reserves, we would have been ruling the Asian and Middleastern regions..
 
Can you build a 300 ton MPV? Or have you ever built one under license ?

Pak a poor country will selling large cargo ships in the 80s and 90s.

Trust me if we had that much oil reserves, we would have been ruling the Asian and Middleastern regions..

Ridiculous to compare a nation of 200 million that has been at war practically ever since it was founded in 1947 with India next door and a country mostly ruled by the military with a country of 20 million people today who only recently began to even think about a serious military. Let alone the legacy of the British army and institutions that survive to this day in Pakistan.
The First Gulf War was the first time this was even given serious priority (more precisely late 1980's) and the first time we even began to import any serious weaponry. Most of the 1990's we had financial crisis and in 2001 9/11 occurred and 2 years later the Iraq war. It's only in the past 10 years that we have even begun this process. More precisely in the past 5 years. Talk about comparing apples and pears.

Sure, you would. Strange that most oil-rich and resource rich countries are nowhere close to being that successful whether Muslim or non-Muslim, African, Latin American or Asian. Yet somehow you would have become the next superpower with all the problems in Pakistan. Having a lot of oil would have been enough. OK.

Anyway got to go. Too much nonsense in this thread.
 
I understand your concern for that amount of money, but Pakistan or even China won't be able to provide that kind of Quality weapon systems to KSA.. take for example the Iranian F-14 Tomcats, despite being 40 years old,. they still form the backbone of the Iranian air force.. do you understand what I mean?

You have to start from somewhere...

But buying weapons isn't a start.

Iran is has been under sanctions both military and economic since ages and they've managed to build a decent defence industry.

Keeping those F-14 airworthy itself is a feet.. on the other hand Saudis still need US to maintain their fleet.



And do not forget that despite these deals with the US, KSA is still helping Pakistan in mant fields including the defence one
This is nonsense..

It's Pakistan that's been helping them even establish their military.. its funny that even today Pak instructors drill Saudi troops... infact all GCC military's were raised by Pakistan.

Even airlines.
 
@The SC it's your turn as I don't bother and I don't have the time currently or patience. Kindly include that news of KSA (Aramco) building the largest shipyard in the region in the Eastern Province as well. Or the aircraft factory near Riyadh.

http://www.tradearabia.com/news/IND_325866.html

http://www.straitstimes.com/business/companies-markets/aramco-to-build-gulfs-largest-shipyard



Don't bother bro.
Well, if @DESERT FIGHTER can go visit the Made In KSA thread, he will save himself and others a lot of time and energy.. one of the biggest shipyards in the middle east is being built in KSA as we speak, the laser and other guidance kits for the the dumb bombs are also being made in KSA in JVs.. KSA is concentrating on the electronics of the systems as the body, armour and design of a tank are much easier to make.. as one can see KSA like to concentrate on the difficult parts of the systems and master them , than goes to simpler and easier parts, wise and smart when one is racing against time and the fast tempo of new technologies..
 
Ridiculous to compare a nation of 200 million that has been at war practically ever since it was founded in 1947 with India next door and a country mostly ruled by the military with a country of 20 million people today who only recently began to even think about a serious military. The First Gulf War was the first time this was even given serious priority (more precisely late 1980's) and the first time we even began to import any serious weaponry. Most of the 1990's we had financial crisis and in 2001 9/11 occurred and 2 years later the Iraq war. It's only in the past 10 years that we have even begun this process. More precisely in the past 5 years. Talk about comparing apple and pears.
Okay, forget the military part.

Tell us about your civilian sector .. with so much oil wealth what have you done ? What industry have you created ? Cold drinks like Freeze ?


Sure, you would. Strange that most oil-rich and resource rich countries are nowhere close to being that successful whether Muslim or non-Muslim, African, Latin American or Asian. Yet somehow you would have become the next superpower with all the problems in Pakistan. Having a lot of oil would have been enough. OK.

Don't talk about countries like Venezuela which have been victims of US bullying.

Talk about yourself.

You have never faced what those countries faced.

Well, if @DESERT FIGHTER et fighter can go visit the Made In KSA thread, he will save himself and others a lot of time and energy.. one of the biggest shipyards in the middle east is being built in KSA as we speak, the laser and other guidance kits for the the dumb bombs are also being made in KSA in JVs.. KSA is concentrating on the electronics of the systems as the body, armour and design of a tank are much easier to make.. as one can see KSA like to concentrate on the difficult parts of the systems and master them , than goes to simpler and easier parts, wise and smart when one is racing against time and the fast tempo of new technologies..
I don't need to sire.

Reality is there for all to see.

Nothing worth speaking off.
 
Can you build a 300 ton MPV? Or have you ever built one under license ?

Pak a poor country will selling large cargo ships in the 80s and 90s.

Trust me if we had that much oil reserves, we would have been ruling the Asian and Middleastern regions..
We believe you, and a brother nation has that wealth and know-how now.. why you aren't happy with it as we would have been or are happy even with the CPEC project for Pakistan?
 
Last edited:
We believe you, and a brother nation has that wealth and know how now.. why you aren't happy with it as we would have been or are happy even with the CPEC project for Pakistan?
What's there to be happy about ?

I'm being critical and realistic here.. as I'm of my own country.

The thing is that I don't live in fantasy..
 
ke for example the Iranian F-14 Tomcats, despite being 40 years old,. they still form the backbone of the Iranian air force..

its bcoz they dont have any other option due to sanctions. they are forced to use F-14. wait for removel of sanctions, the first desperate deal of Iranians will be regarding their airforce.
 
its bcoz they dont have any other option due to sanctions. they are forced to use F-14. wait for removel of sanctions, the first desperate deal of Iranians will be regarding their airforce.
I was talking about the Quality of the product!
 
Not just access but currently for instance Saudi Arabians are only second to 1.3 billion big China and 1.2 billion big India when it comes to students in leading US universities. By far the most per capita. All those 10.000's upon 10.000's of young students, past, present and future, will help shape our immediate and long-term future for the better as will leading local universities such as KAUST and the currently 35 + industrial cities and many more exciting projects.

Oiling the wheels on a road to success
Pakinam Amer
Nature 532,

Published online
27 April 2016

With the benefit of a sustainable plan and the funds to back it, Saudi Arabia is aiming high.
Saudi Arabia's scientific development may be in its infancy, but the oil-rich Kingdom is making strides in terms of research investment and publication — with a clear ambition to one day join those in the highest echelons.

532S13a-i1.jpg

KAUST students embark on a new school year with a commencement ceremony. The relatively new university has quickly made an impact on the Nature Index.​

In 2012, Saudi Arabia had a weighted fractional count (WFC) of 52.84 in the index, sitting behind Turkey, Iran, Mexico, Chile and South Africa. In four years it rose 86.8% to reach a WFC of 98.67, leapfrogging all these countries to compete with Chile and Argentina globally. Saudi Arabia ranks at number 31 in the world in terms of WFC — up from 39 in 2012.

The country has risen even higher in specific subject areas. In chemistry, for example, it has surpassed countries with a strong scientific impact like Finland and Ireland, with its WFC rising to 66.54, achieving almost a three-fold increase from its position in 2012.

Institutionally, the country's leading science hub King Abdullah University of Science and Technology (KAUST) made an impressive leap in its WFC between 2012 and 2015, carving a place for itself to compete with American and European research powerhouses.


In just four years, its WFC has risen to become higher than those of prestigious institutions including the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN), Brookhaven National Laboratory (BNL), the University of Georgia, United States, and Dresden University of Technology, Germany, to name a few. The output of all of these institutions dwarfed KAUST's in 2012, but KAUST's impressive trajectory since then has seen its WFC shoot to 72 in 2015, overtaking these heavy-hitters.

The country's science development ambitions have been backed by action. Since 2008, the country has embarked on a multi-tiered strategy that will see the Kingdom overhaul its science infrastructure, build high-spec labs, secure grants for research in priority areas in applied science, and link science to industries that drive the economy.

The strategy, broken into four stages to be implemented by 2030, aims to eventually “see Saudi Arabia become a leader in Asia and give it an economic power based on science,” says Abdulaziz Al-Swailem, vice president of scientific research support at King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology (KACST).

532S13a-i2.jpg

The Saudi Human Genome Project will sequence 100,000 human genomes to conduct biomedical research in the Saudi population.​

Saudi Arabia's march to the top
Saudi Arabia's efforts to boost its scientific research have been paying off, with its output in the Nature Index (WFC) rising steadily over the years. The two graphs below highlight Saudi Arabia's rise compared to other nations, both overall and for chemistry.

Overall output
In 2012 Saudi Arabia's overall output in the index was below all the countries shown, but continuous efforts have seen the Kingdom's WFC rise to overtake them all in 2015.




Chemistry
More marked than its overall rise, Saudi Arabia has made great strides in chemistry. After accelerated growth, which saw the Kingdom's chemistry WFC triple since 2012, it has outshone many larger players in the field in 2015.




The Kingdom's science investments focus on applied research that feeds directly into the country's industrial interests, particularly the oil and energy sector. But even in its strong subjects, chemistry and the physical sciences, Saudi Arabia's WFC remains modest compared to big players in Asia like China, Japan and South Korea.


To truly swim comfortably with these bigger fish, Saudi Arabia may benefit from looking at successful emerging economies in Asia.

One inspiration could be India. In addition to multi-disciplinary scientific and technical advancements that have improved its output in the index from 736.5 to 901.4 in the past four years, the subcontinental giant has joined the exclusive club of countries that have launched successful space missions.

Like Saudi Arabia, India's leading research institutes focus on chemistry, and their total output currently outstrips their Saudi Arabian counterparts by almost a factor of seven (the latter surpassing 472 in 2015, while the former is 66.5).

India's prowess in chemistry is something that Saudi Arabia can aspire to, considering that working conditions for researchers in the Kingdom are more conducive.

India's science ecosystem is far from perfect. Research funding cannot keep up with inflation and a general slowdown in the country's economy. In addition, commentators from the research community say the funding processes are lengthy, bureaucratic, and provide little feedback when applications for grants are turned down. Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia's healthy stream of oil revenue provides assured funding for the country's state-of-the-art research facilities.

While India has slightly increased spending and dedicated US$1.19 billion for the next fiscal year (2016–2017) for science, it has around 700 universities and 200,000 full-time researchers drawing on the same funding pot. By contrast, Saudi Arabia has pledged an education and training budget of US$50.9 billion for next year, which includes higher education and scientific research. With a total population of just 30 million, it has a much lower number of full-time researchers competing for the available resources.

Another impressive trajectory that Saudi Arabia might look to emulate is that of Singapore, which has a smaller population as well and has managed to climb high in the index. Like the Kingdom, Singapore also has a focus on chemistry research, and it has put together a similar top-down national science strategy for research institutes across the country. Both countries have strong collaborations with top universities around the world and are welcoming of foreign researchers in their efforts to drive innovation.

Mansour Alghamdi, director of the general directorate of scientific awareness and publishing at KACST, is optimistic that Saudi Arabia can bridge the large gap that currently exists in the volume of scientific output between it and such countries as India and Singapore.

“The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has a clear plan to do so and it has the resources,” he says.


Future growth
An internationally rising star
This graph shows KAUST's rise compared to a selection of other institutions*.
*Institutions shown are those that were furthest above KAUST in 2012, have experienced overall growth in WFC by 2015 and have been overtaken by KAUST in 2015. For clarity, only 2012 and 2015 data points are shown.

532S13a-g3.jpg


In 2012, Saudi's ranking in research output, with a WFC of 52.8, meant it was comparable with countries like South Africa, Turkey and Iran, all hovering around the 60–70 mark. Its WFC stood way below countries like Mexico, Hungary, Chile, Greece and Argentina.

532S13a-i3.jpg

Saudi Arabian researchers benefit from cutting-edge labs and generous funding that has boosted the country's R&D.​

Four years later, the country's research outlook is very different and it is surpassing countries like Argentina, Mexico and Hungary in the index, and levelling the playing field with Chile. Chemistry research led the country's rapid rise to surpass these countries, but its life sciences and physical sciences WFCs of 8.5 and 31.5 still lag behind.

However, the Kingdom's AC has been steadily growing in these two fields over the past four years, hinting at the ever-increasing significance of international collaborations. It seems that Saudi Arabian researchers are casting their nets ever wider and are participating in publishing more articles, to the detriment of the WFC accredited for these articles.


Though international collaboration has proved fruitful, Saudi Arabia must keep a focus on nurturing home-grown talent, says Nasser Al-Aqeeli, dean of research at King Fahd University of Petroleum & Minerals (KFUPM), based in Dhahran's 'techno valley' in the eastern region of the Kingdom. In the next five years, he says, the country will focus on a programme for national capacity building.

A good first step was the Saudi government's decision to create a large scholarship programme in 2005, arguably the largest in the world, which has seen more than 200,000 young Saudi Arabians studying abroad. This makes Saudi Arabian students in the United States the fourth largest bloc of expatriate students, following those of China, India and South Korea. The government hopes these students will come back and drive a scientific culture in the country.
Saudi Arabia is also looking to increase its applied research focus, which is an integral part of the current phase of its national science strategy, while securing good funding for basic research as well. Al-Aqeeli says that Saudi's journey involves what he termed a “self-correcting mechanism” where the country is having a slow start in high-impact research, but a more sustainable one. An eventual future move towards basic research might help Saudi Arabia's research capacity to mature.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v532/n7600_supp_ni/full/532S13a.html

It's just the beginning. Almost 75% of our population is youth. We are one of the most educated people in the Muslim/developing world already and we have just begun. Much more to follow.



The joke of the century is the presence of a Farsi in this thread and your incredibly stupid comments and ignorance, not that I am surprised. Now worry about securing your parliament and the giant golden tomb of the 'Arab' Khomenei that you worship.
Very impressive.
 
What's there to be happy about ?

I'm being critical and realistic here.. as I'm of my own country.

The thing is that I don't live in fantasy..
With due respect, the thread "Made in KSA" was created to answer such doubts, I agree that it is just a start but it is impressive and real and what is hidden is much bigger.... nothing is Fantasy when it comes to KSA..you should know it by now..
 

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom