Reorientation And Restructuring of Pakistan Army

[Jango]

What is wrong with utilizing the Cantt's for 'commercial purposes'?

I personally don't really agree with the author on 'segregating the civilians and military personnel' in the Cantt's, though I understand the security argument, but through segregation the military will simply be characterized that much more as some 'section of the elite'.

Agree with your view point, but the whole cantt should not be sold for the purpose, security should be considered, after then, when all the requirments have been met, there is no wrong in earning extra by giving the remaining useless land on rent or sale.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Agree with your view point, but the whole cantt should not be sold for the purpose, security should be considered, after then, when all the requirments have been met, there is no wrong in earning extra by giving the remaining useless land on rent or sale.

Cantt's are meant to be primarily for residential use, correct?

The security argument is only applicable in the current scenario, with terrorist attacks against the armed forces. This kind of terrorism was not an issue in the past and therefore not really relevant from a 'security' perspective. Nor is the 'security from terrorism' argument relevant from a long term perspective, unless you believe that Pakistan will always face terrorism at the levels it has in the past few years.

Outside of terrorism, the security argument for segregating military and civilian residences in the Cantt's makes little sense.

 

[Jango]

Cantt's are meant to be primarily for residential use, correct?

The security argument is only applicable in the current scenario, with terrorist attacks against the armed forces. This kind of terrorism was not an issue in the past and therefore not really relevant from a 'security' perspective. Nor is the 'security from terrorism' argument relevant from a long term perspective, unless you believe that Pakistan will always face terrorism at the levels it has in the past few years.

Outside of terrorism, the security argument for segregating military and civilian residences in the Cantt's makes little sense.

Multan cantt and malir cantt are also more or less segregated,so is Kharian and Mangla, muree is well integrated, so is Rwp and Lhr. So there is a good mix.

 

[VCheng]

And how is utilizing land appropriated for military use (residences etc.) for commercial purposes, so long as the resources generated are directed back into 'military welfare programs' etc., a 'violation of the very purpose of their existence'?

Keep in mind that the land we are talking about is itself part of the military's 'soldier welfare programs', in that it is used to provide housing, schools and other non-combat related facilities to military personnel. Utilizing the same land for commercial purposes, so long as the funds generated are put back into other military welfare programs, is simply an extension of the original activity of acquiring the said land.

Now, if land was acquired for a training range or center, and then used for commercial purposes instead, without good reason as to why the original intent of acquiring the land was not followed through upon, then you could argue 'violation of purpose'.

So, as long as the Army acts as a commercial venture to enrich itself, it is okay? All for "welfare" of course.

 

[Jango]

So, as long as the Army acts as a commercial venture to enrich itself, it is okay? All for "welfare" of course.

Well, if it is for welfare, then no wrong, but if the pockets of specific people keep on getting big, then there can be an objection.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So, as long as the Army acts as a commercial venture to enrich itself, it is okay? All for "welfare" of course.

What does 'enrich itself' mean?

Does it mean 'generating additional resources to fund welfare programs for retirees, widows and children of martyred and deceased soldiers', as well as for families of active and retired soldiers?

Does it mean funding certain miltary programs from the resources generated through these programs, and therefore reducing the burden on the taxpayer through a relatively smaller defense budget?

The Fauji Foundation alone paid over $600 million in taxes to the State of Pakistan, I'd say that the Military commercial ventures are playing a very important role in 'enriching the State of Pakistan', or do you really think that the state of Civilian run entities such as Pakistan Steel, Railways, PIA etc. indicates that the Fauji Foundation would actually provide more than $600 million in tax revenue to the State of Pakistan?

Oh wait, PIA, PS and Railways suck out over $3 billion annually from the tax payers in losses .....

Military commercial ventures: $600 million in tax revenue annually
Civilian commercial venture: $3 billion in losses annually

Who is enriching whom here?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Hello,

The commercial ventures of the army are simply treated as any other commercial projects in this country. By this definition it would mean something like 'army is running a bakery' --or lets focus on gas station since it was brought up by someone --- it's 'getting the fuel from contractors at lower rates', or the 'land procured for the constructing of Askari Bank was subsidized etc'.......... but the ground reality is that they are not...

huge amount of revenue is generated for the govt through these projects in tthe garb of the taxes these projects deposit. Yes, all of these projects are bound by taxes.

you know -- some of the reconstruction works in Swat/Bajaur during Rah-e-Rast campaign -- they were funded (like a handful of other essential items) through either the modest wallets of Officers/soldiers or through the the funds generated by the these aforementioned 'projects'



tell the MNAs and other govt. servants to do the same......some of them snidely acknowledge they arent bound to taxes. So why dont they at least show some dedication and seriousness by donating one-days pay for anti-polio or building a school in FATA.


im sorry, but i actually get irritated when i read so much "liberal-fascist" drama which seeks to defame the Army with their masala (mis)information.......dig deeper and you will learn what you seek to learn

 

[Jango]

The projects or commercial ventures by the military are all payed in full by the military, not for free!. They generate revenue for Officers and jawans welfare, they provide additional funds for procurment of equipment and for infrastructure , and they provide a good means of entertainment and morale boosting for the troops.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

AM bro,

railways and PIA are in the mess they are because the funds are 'mismanaged' and because they are WAY WAY WAYYYYYYY over-staffed.

 

[Bratva]

So, as long as the Army acts as a commercial venture to enrich itself, it is okay? All for "welfare" of course.

Being the resident of Walton Cantonment i can give some insights, Walton is mostly dominated with civilians from start because of the Large number of mohajirs who migrated from Indian Punjab stayed in large camps in Walton. Only thing in Walton , is a storage depo for military vehicals and an air defence mess adjacent to it for officers which is 5 mint walk away from my House. The real Cantonment area starts from Cavalry ground where major Army buildings like ISPR office, Army guest house, Garrison security Force HQ, Askari villas, Airforce calony etc etc

my point is, Army was forced to give this part of cantt to civilians because you can not relocate large number civilians living there can you?

But Some people are ignorant simply.... I hope they learned something new this time

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

forgive me -- but too many details there buddy!

 

[VCheng]

What does 'enrich itself' mean?

Does it mean 'generating additional resources to fund welfare programs for retirees, widows and children of martyred and deceased soldiers', as well as for families of active and retired soldiers?

Does it mean funding certain miltary programs from the resources generated through these programs, and therefore reducing the burden on the taxpayer through a relatively smaller defense budget?

The Fauji Foundation alone paid over $600 million in taxes to the State of Pakistan, I'd say that the Military commercial ventures are playing a very important role in 'enriching the State of Pakistan', or do you really think that the state of Civilian run entities such as Pakistan Steel, Railways, PIA etc. indicates that the Fauji Foundation would actually provide more than $600 million in tax revenue to the State of Pakistan?

Oh wait, PIA, PS and Railways suck out over $3 billion annually from the tax payers in losses .....

Military commercial ventures: $600 million in tax revenue annually
Civilian commercial venture: $3 billion in losses annually

Who is enriching whom here?

And yet, the end result of all these noble intentions is that the Army is effectively a holding company possessing businesses, hotels, shopping malls, insurance and transport companies, banks, farms, and is hugely into real estate development, altogether conducting over 21 billion dollars of business annually, most of it hidden from any scrutiny or oversight.

Of course, all of this is justified by disparaging corrupt politicians and incompetent civilians, with an ardent insistence that it is all for the welfare of troops, when in fact all it does is enrich the officer cadre and perpetuates the stranglehold on the political process and commercial activities.

The results are before all the world to see.

 

[VCheng]

You are bringing in sociology/anthropology/philosophy.

What is the difference between education and literacy?

If someone understands the key difference, this country let alone this army would be steering the ship on another bearing.

Of course, education creates robust reasoning and sound judgement, but literacy is merely being able to read and write. What is worst, as demonstrated by present day Pakistan, is intentionally malicious religious indoctrination masquerading as education, made more dangerous by technical expertise in "certain" areas.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

warfare is rapidly moving towards complex technological tools & tactics employed for the use of those tools, so education especially technical is of vital importance for tommorow's theatre of operations. above all any knowledge is worth pursuing & making the effort to achieve it.

very true,
Hence, physics and mathematics are a must have. Officers with only fine arts have very limited avenues available in the different branches of the army.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Everyone is going for one point while ignoring the rest of the so many other posts which are much much more important compared to the one being discussed.

Kiyaa kehnaaa.