Realistic worst care scenarios for Indian Muslims

[xeuss]

Never found evidence for this

I can confirm this as well. Most who marry outside their faith are irreligious in the first place.

Well spotted,

One interesting thing to note of not allowing Hindus in Sunni mosques is subcontinent thing, you will not find this is Middle East

I suspect this is due to Imperial Islamic powers exploiting local religious divide for sustaining the ethnic supremacy over the people of the subcontinent

For instance, Medieval literature from Hindu kingdoms often equated Islamic rule to that of Turkic people, but never direct references to Indian Muslims

Never once, in all the mosques I attended in India, was it implicitly or explicitly mentioned that Hindus (or non-Muslims) are not allowed to enter. There is obviously a dress code and removal of shoes required, but that is not an alien concept in India.

I find this hard to believe as well, since propagation of faith is an important part of this religion, that anyone would bar any non-Muslim from entering the mosque.

Do you have a personal experience to share?

 

[Ultima Thule]

Not interested- As you are trying to get the remaining Kashmir- India is moving ahead with the plans of fully adding Indian Kashmir into the Indian union. We will just wait for you guys to come to the negotiating table with no strings attached.

WHAT A LIAR YOU'RE WE ALWAYS WANT TO PLEBISCITE IN IOK ACCORDING TO UN RESOLUTIONS
YOU ALWAYS ATTACHED STRINGS TO THE TABLE NOT PAKISTAN

 

[Adonis]

WHAT A LIAR YOU'RE WE ALWAYS WANT TO PLEBISCITE IN IOK ACCORDING TO UN RESOLUTIONS
YOU ALWAYS ATTACHED STRINGS TO THE TABLE NOT PAKISTAN

Why only IOK, per UN resolution (which now has no value)..it's whole of Kashmir (IOK/Azad Kashmir Gilgit and Baltistan)...with various conditions (only those can vote who are actual residents, removal of all forces by Pakistan from whole of Kashmir before plebiscite etc....

In short mate.....neither India nor Pakistan can agree to pre-conditions so to expect matter be resolved through UN resolution is futile.

 

[pothead]

This forum seems to be bursting at the seams with all sorts of allegations being leveled against non Muslim Indians, Hindus in particular, about the 'fascist' takeover of our government by 'far right' 'genocidal' maniacs in the form of the BJP, led by a 'mass murderer' in the form of PM Modi and how the Muslims of India are being marched off to the ovens or something... all much common themes if one browses around here a bit.

It's pretty easy to understand where such vitriol comes from given the complicated history of India, spl when it comes from our western neighbours but as an Indian who has lived in India most of his life, and keeps a keen eye on the political goings on here, I see no evidence of such a thing in the works.

Nobody is looking for any sort of 'final solution' here as far as I can tell.

Are there problems ? Sure, plenty.

Are Indian Muslims at any risk of being rounded up and disposed off wholesale, being denied their statehood or rights as citizens ? Hell no !

Just looking to get an idea of what people who actually believe in the 'fascist genocidal Hindus' narrative fear will happen, and maybe a timeline too.. how far are we from the peak, what happens when we get there.. etc

We need to look at it objectively and with facts.
There is not a country where Muslims live peacefully with others.

Even in India this is happening and will only increase with time. This is how Pakistan and Bangladesh happened. Large cities in Pakistan which had significant Hindu population are now reduced to miniscule.

Within India, Kashmir and North Kerala are classic examples of the same pattern.

Hindus & muslims can not exist in peace in India. Problem is not with Hindus.
Muslims have not learnt to co-exist peacefully with any other belief for ever, SL and Burma are other immediate examples and they are not Hindu nations..

 

[AfrazulMandal]

Can we ever be treated like humans?

I don't expect this from Hindus anymore.

Similar things happened to me too. Though they knew I was Indian. These guys claimed to be secular even.

A strong theme that comes from them is the urge to 'reform' Islam. Makes me wanna puke.

In one case I simply stated that Islam brought civilisation to this land - brought real law and order with the tax collection system, cuisine, artchitecture, dress and so on. Without Islam there would be no Taj Mahal, Red Fort (and Modijis speeches from there) and so on. What architectural marvels did you have prior to that?

They stopped bothering me after that. Of course, they called me jihadi and signed off.

We need to look at it objectively and with facts.
There is not a country where Muslims live peacefully with others.

Even in India this is happening and will only increase with time. This is how Pakistan and Bangladesh happened. Large cities in Pakistan which had significant Hindu population are now reduced to miniscule.

Within India, Kashmir and North Kerala are classic examples of the same pattern.

Hindus & muslims can not exist in peace in India. Problem is not with Hindus.
Muslims have not learnt to co-exist peacefully with any other belief for ever, SL and Burma are other immediate examples and they are not Hindu nations..

Typicaly Hindu knee jerk reaction.

Blame the victim.

I know many Sanghi Hindu girls who have a fascination for Muslim men, but in a really perverted sense.

Well, good thing is that many do end up marrying us.

Once you come to know that the evil Muslim is not actually evil, perspectives change.

I would consider this a win win for Muslims in the end. But that's just me.

 

[Sharma Ji]

I can confirm this as well. Most who marry outside their faith are irreligious in the first place.




Never once, in all the mosques I attended in India, was it implicitly or explicitly mentioned that Hindus (or non-Muslims) are not allowed to enter. There is obviously a dress code and removal of shoes required, but that is not an alien concept in India.

I find this hard to believe as well, since propagation of faith is an important part of this religion, that anyone would bar any non-Muslim from entering the mosque.

Do you have a personal experience to share?

I doubt Hindus or other non muslims are barred from entering sunni mosques but nobody goes to those... somehow. People do flock to the dargahs in their tens of thousands, though.. Ajmer sharif, Hazrat Nizamuddin etc. The Jama masjid in Delhi, that whole area is a bit of an attraction in terms of it being a historic monument and also there's lots of real nice eating options, spl during ramzan and the lively night time food stall scene, kebabs, biriyani, haleem and all sorts, also buff tikkas.

I've been to a few jumma raat qawwali nights in nizamuddin, had a good time of it too, took people from Israel there once, but they were NOT Israelis.. curious locals would sometimes come ask "which country you from, your country ??" ... they were always met with a "new zealand, south africa, russia, ukraine, argentina..." never Israel

I know this one guy in Del, not fond of muslims at all, but he does like his tipple of scotch and drive around in his really fancy big SUV, and almost invariably makes his way to the Masjid after he's had his fill to gorge on... beef/buff tikkas He also tips exorbitantly (is that even correct english?) .. anyway, he tips lavishly and those guys are always falling all over themselves to serve sahab. Maybe it's a power trip, who knows, I'm yet to make sense of that very peculiar dichotomy.

back to the sunni mosque thing.. let's be honest, the hardcore ones, the TJ folk for example, look down on the dargahs and all the revelry that goes on down there.. kafirs, grave worshipers and all sorts of haramis frequent those joints as far as the salafist types are concerned.

Islam brought civilisation to this land.....What architectural marvels did you have prior to that?

Oh please

 

[Naofumi]

Those fuckers chose Pakistan in 47 and now their generations are paying the price......

I guess nearly all of them were illiterate, how can you fault them? Same for Indian Muslims, even the elections were decided by the elites of the area - caste based vote, Zamindari system. The local population was the same as slaves of elites (both Hindu and Muslims). Of course, there are others who explicitly chose Pakistan like Karachi Hindus and Rana of Amerkot but they're still much better than the rural Hindus who never had any real choice and are facing the real brunt.

We are not talking legal guns. We are talking about illegal firearms. What you guys calls katas or something


You sound like a Hindu who wants Muslims to let Hindus exterminate them. Are you for real??

The only way Indian Muslims survive is if they fight valiantly like they did in recent Delhi riots. If you turn the other cheek then these Hindus will wipe you out.


Don't play dumb. Indian army is not capable of putting down a pan India riot. 1 million army personnel most of them stationed in Kashmir vs 25 crore Indian Muslims spread out in every nook and corner of India.


Ghettos aren't a disadvantage. If you were living in Hindu dominated areas then you would face one sided casualties. The fact Hindus don't mess with you often because you live in fortified ghettos or Mini Pakistans what they call them.

Only military operations would cleanse these ghettos. And Indian army is incapable of doing that to thousands of such mini Pakistans spread out evenly all over India.

You need to start moving to Muslim majority districts to further strengthen your positions. From my limited knowledge, I know that many districts in UP, Bihar, Kerala, Assam and West Bengal are Muslim majority. You should move out there. Even Indian army won't be able to do anything to you over there.

See? Hindus alone are enough to mass murder!

 

[AfrazulMandal]

PS: If Jinnah was the 1st PM of free India-These RSS/Shiv Sena clowns would have been decimated once and for all- All we got in return was Assasination of Gandhi and the mess they are creating in todays India.

There is still hope.

A Muslim political party can still come up - once the hatred for Islam comes down. It may come down

Then, if you are vote for them, a Muslim govt may come to power in the Center.

I am sure, all mischeif makers will be extinguished then.

There are too many ifs, I know.

let's be honest, the hardcore ones, the TJ folk for example, look down on the dargahs and all the revelry that goes on down there.. kafirs, grave worshipers and all sorts of haramis frequent those joints as far as the salafist types are concerned.

Why do you say something about some people you know nothing about?

Besides, they are theologically trained and from a theological perspective they do not approve dargah or grave worship.

That is about it.

 

[Naofumi]

We need to look at it objectively and with facts.
There is not a country where Muslims live peacefully with others.

Even in India this is happening and will only increase with time. This is how Pakistan and Bangladesh happened. Large cities in Pakistan which had significant Hindu population are now reduced to miniscule.

Within India, Kashmir and North Kerala are classic examples of the same pattern.

Hindus & muslims can not exist in peace in India. Problem is not with Hindus.
Muslims have not learnt to co-exist peacefully with any other belief for ever, SL and Burma are other immediate examples and they are not Hindu nations..

@Crixus See, people like @AfrazulMandal are not the only reason.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Why do you say something about some people you know nothing about?

Besides, they are theologically trained and from a theological perspective they do not approve dargah or grave worship.

That is about it.

Having been to the dargahs, and taken along Israelis for the ride, and all of us having had a great time listening to music there and feasting, I know enough to know that it is the hardcore sunni salafist types that are the problem in our society.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

hardcore sunni salafist types that are the problem in our society.

There is nothing like that.

Sunni salafists are doing the damage.

Hindus ruling the world's largest democracy are.

 

[Sharma Ji]

There is nothing like that.

Sunni salafists are doing the damage.

Hindus ruling the world's largest democracy are.

For those who hate, with a passion, even their fellow co-religionists (shia/sufi etc)

there is very little hope.

no point expecting that (you?) lot to ever embrace the idea of peaceful co existence and cross cultural exchanges that break down barriers and bring people together.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

For those who hate, with a passion, even their fellow co-religionists (shia/sufi etc)

there is very little hope.

no point expecting that (you?) lot to ever embrace the idea of peaceful co existence and cross cultural exchanges that break down barriers and bring people together.

You are mistaking something fundamental.

Muslims have no problems with multiculturalism as long as it does not go against Tawheed.

A Bengali Muslim is no better than an Arab Muslim, except in piety. Peaceful coexistence is BUILT IN to the Islamic system. What you call Salafi, Wahabi are just names to dump hate on a sub section of a community.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Here lay the remains of a great soul

so what if people wish to pay respect and sing and dance praises to the lord in celebration of the life of those great souls ?

 

[Naofumi]

Theology is not allowed to discuss here.