Featured Putin: Insulting Prophet Muhammad is not freedom of expression

[jamahir]

Putin is right. Sacred thing is not for mocking. It is true for all the religions, not for Islam only.

There should be limits.

As Greek i was raised christian but my family is not very religious. For us its more like customs and to do it because its done that way. I cant believe in those stories, no matter how much i try. Going to church doesnt touch me in any way. I sit there like i sit at a train station.

When i go into a church i put my had off and i often got told from elderly people what a respectful young man i am. But that cant change what my thoughts are. And thoughts are always free no matter how repressive a regime is.

To be honest the only religious building that actually was "touching" me, was the great pyramide of Khufu.

In my case it's been many years since I have gone to a mosque and prayed. Now I have realized that I am comfortable in considering Nature as most supreme and this supremacy cannot be denied either by someone believing in God or gods or anti-God. I do not worship Nature by praying to it or doing some rituals. I just live with it. But I will still defend Prophet Muhammad because he was a philosopher and revolutionary who brought progressive socio-economic ideas especially.

The most blasphemous acts and mocking is done from priests and the church itself. Its gigantic corruptions and crimes against the people. The church doesnt respect what it preaches.

I agree, there should be no agent between Man and God, which is why Islam doesn't have a priest system, a clergy system, but unfortunately the mullahs have been present among Muslims for a long time and have contributing to harming Islam and political, socio-economic and technological progresses by Muslims. I quote the below section from a 2016 thread of mine whose OP is by Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha and is about Socialist and Communist activism by Muslims since the early 1900s :

Apart from continuing to author books and commentaries on the Qu’ran, [ Jamahir : Ghulam Ahmed ] Parvez wrote a series of articles in Talu-e-Islam that propagated a more socialistic view of the holy book.

In a series of essays for the magazine he used verses from the Qu’ran, incidents from the faith’s history and insights from the writings of Muhammad Iqbal to claim:

The clergy and conservative ulema have hijacked Islam.

They are agents of the rich people and promoters of uncontrolled Capitalism.

Socialism best enforces Qur’anic dictums on property, justice and distribution of wealth.

Islam’s main mission was the eradication of all injustices and cruelties from society. It was a socio-economic movement, and the Prophet was a leader seeking to put an end to the capitalist exploitation of the Quraysh merchants and the corrupt bureaucracy of Byzantium and Persia.

According to the Qur’an, Muslims have three main responsibilities: seeing, hearing and sensing through the agency of the mind. Consequently, real knowledge is based on empirically verifiable observation, or through the role of science.

Poverty is the punishment of God and deserved by those who ignore science.

In Muslim/Islamic societies, science, as well as agrarian reform should play leading roles in developing an industrialised economy.

A socialist path is a correction of the medieval distortion of Islam through Shari’a.

You do understand that your prophet is not a prophet outside your culture right and that you cant force your religion on me?

Your prophet Jesus is also a prophet in Islam - Prophet Isa - the one just before Prophet Muhammad. And please read about the Islamic concept of Mahdi.

Putin has killed how many Muslims in Chechnya? How many more in Syria?

It isn't like that. Please read this post.

How can anyone take a dictator like Putin seriously? I guess the same people who think Erdogan is the second-coming of Ataturk.

Your reasoning is incorrect. Erdogan's party is nothing but the Turkish branch of the regressive and criminal group Muslim Brotherhood whereas AFAIK Ataturk was a secularist.

 

[Apollon]

Yes but there is a limit. You can not say everything in name of freedom. Whatever you think of the muslim prophet, he has 1.8 billion followers. So some consideration is necessary.

Sorry but i believe that we should not allow some plebs to ban freedom of speech here by cutting peoples heads off.

As i said, if someone wants to make such cartoons im for full supporting this. Im against anything that would even show the slightest concessions towards religious extremists.

 

[OIO]

The Confucian view is to respect gods and stay away, so even Chinese who do not like religion will not insult other people's gods.

 

[dBSPL]

As i said, if someone wants to make such cartoons im for full supporting this. Im against anything that would even show the slightest concessions towards religious extremists.

Here, accusing Muslims as extremists is the most conformist and empathetically problematic approach.

Even the depiction over cartoons of our Beloved Prophet in Islamic culture is a terrible disrespect and insult. Not to mention whether the depiction is good or bad. In other words, what is appropriate for your culture here is perceived as an insult to the other part the world and seing as an attack on their religious/moral values.

If we look at the matter from -my point of view- or -your point of view-, the matter becomes highly subjective. As far as I can tell, this is the issue that Muslims have a hard time explaining.

We, as Christians, have accepted these, and saying 'you should accept too' is not an appropriate answer. In my opinion, it is debatable whether the person who said this is a Christian or not. People may be agnostic, deist or atheist, but the scope of their freedom should not threaten the beliefs of other individuals.

 

[Stranagor]

he is probably trying to get support of muslim countries for his upcoming invasion of ukraine.

No major power needs another people's support for invasion. Did the US care about that when they invaded Iraq or AfghanistaN, or drone-bombed Somalia. Putin's ability, or lack thereof, to subdue or scare away other states is what matters. Laymen figure very little in such bif games.

 

[fitpOsitive]

www.trtworld.com

Putin: Insulting Prophet Muhammad is not freedom of expression


3 minutes

Fast News


During his annual press conference, Putin expressed the importance of artistic freedom without hindrance to religious freedom.

Putin said artistic freedom should not infringe on other freedoms. (Reuters)
Russian President Vladimir Putin has said insulting Prophet Muhammad does not count as freedom of expression.
Insults to the prophet are a "violation of religious freedom and the violation of the sacred feelings of people who profess Islam,", Putin said on Thursday during his annual news conference, Russian News Agency TASS reported.
Putin also criticised posting photos of Nazis on websites such as the one titled the Immortal Regiment dedicated to Russians that died in World War Two.
Putin said these acts give rise to extremist reprisals, citing as an example the attack on the editorial office of Charlie Hebdo magazine in Paris after its publication of cartoons of the prophet.
READ MORE: Macron: I won't condemn caricatures of 'Prophet Muhammad'



While praising artistic freedom in general, Putin said it has its limits and it should not infringe on other freedoms.
Russia has evolved as a multi-ethnic and multi-confessional state, so Russians, he said, are used to respecting each other’s traditions.
In some other countries, this respect comes in short supply, Putin said.
READ MORE: Is Russia on the path to marginalising its Muslim population?

Source: TRT World
https://www.trtworld.com/asia/putin-insulting-prophet-muhammad-is-not-freedom-of-expression-52961

People exactly know these days that how to play with Muslim sentiment. Mr Putin is saying that only prior to invasion to Ukraine. Almost 2 billion Muslims, although useless, but hey, numbers have their own power.

 

[dBSPL]

This statement of Putin is very important and should be appreciated. While many state leaders could not say this, and even while some of them Macron,Trump etc, prefer to developing populist Islamophobic rhetorics, it is important that Putin can openly defend it.

When Putin is saying this here, it seems very strange to me to develop whataboutism through Russian state policies and try to discredit what he says. The right word is appreciated. Especially when it's so hard to say these things nowadays.

 

[Apollon]

Here, accusing Muslims as extremists is the most conformist and empathetically problematic approach.

Even the depiction over cartoons of our Beloved Prophet in Islamic culture is a terrible disrespect and insult. Not to mention whether the depiction is good or bad. In other words, what is appropriate for your culture here is perceived as an insult to the other part the world and seing as an attack on their religious/moral values.

If we look at the matter from -my point of view- or -your point of view-, the matter becomes highly subjective. As far as I can tell, this is the issue that Muslims have a hard time explaining.

We, as Christians, have accepted these, and saying 'you should accept too' is not an appropriate answer. In my opinion, it is debatable whether the person who said this is a Christian or not. People may be agnostic, deist or atheist, but the scope of their freedom should not threaten the beliefs of other individuals.

I have a question for you. How much insult do you think it is to turn the greatest coronation cathedral of the christian orthodox world to a mosque and put white boards infront the mosaics of the jesus, the saints and virgin mary?

So you say we should not make cartoons to not insult your religious believes. Ok. But at same time you think its totally ok to trample on ours?

 

[dBSPL]

I have a question for you. How much insult do you think it is to turn the greatest coronation cathedral of the christian orthodox world to a mosque and put white boards infront the mosaics of the jesus, the saints and virgin mary?

So you say we should not make cartoons to not insult your religious believes. Ok. But at same time you think its totally ok to trample on ours?

Well, you stopped blaming people as an extremist, and now you realize that the cartoon thing is actually disrespectful. This is also an improvement.

I expected you to write this message. I would really like to discuss these in its tittle from an intellectual point of view rather than using a whatabaoutism tool. Because in any case, it has a better fate than the hundreds of mosques that Greece has destroyed or used as a bar, exhibition space or restaurant.

Not only Turkey, but probably the most magnificent mosque in Islamic history, Cordoba is today a cathedral. Many mosques in Sofia in Macedonia, in many parts of the Balkans, and even up to Toledo, in a wide geography where Islam and Christianity interact, are also used as churches/cathedrals for the worship needs or willingness of the people of the region. In Hagia Sophia, 95% of all the heritages of the Christian culture are preserved, but unfortunately the situation can be very different in the examples of the europe.

The Spanish built the cathedrals of Toledo and Kurutba on mosques because they were the most magnificent structures in the post-conquest areas. In fact, the same example is the conversion of the cathedral in Cyprus, where the Lusignan kings were crowned, into a mosque. Similarly, thurning Black Mosque into church in Sofia symbolizes liberation from the Ottomans. Open an appropriate topic and let's discuss them.

If I go back to the title, to say how much pressure Putin has put on Muslims, or to try to build 'whatabout' on things that are 500-600 years ago; today is nothing but burying our heads in the sand against the phenomenon that is currently happening and that we can prevent.

 

[Apollon]

Well, you stopped blaming people as an extremist, and now you realize that the cartoon thing is actually disrespectful. This is also an improvement.

I expected you to write this message. I would really like to discuss these in its tittle from an intellectual point of view rather than using a whatabaoutism tool. Because in any case, it has a better fate than the hundreds of mosques that Greece has destroyed or used as a bar, exhibition space or restaurant.

Not only Turkey, but probably the most magnificent mosque in Islamic history, Cordoba is today a cathedral. Many mosques in Sofia in Macedonia, in many parts of the Balkans, and even up to Toledo, in a wide geography where Islam and Christianity interact, are also used as churches/cathedrals for the worship needs or willingness of the people of the region. In Hagia Sophia, 95% of all the heritages of the Christian culture are preserved, but unfortunately the situation can be very different in the examples of the europe.

The Spanish built the cathedrals of Toledo and Kurutba on mosques because they were the most magnificent structures in the post-conquest areas. In fact, the same example is the conversion of the cathedral in Cyprus, where the Lusignan kings were crowned, into a mosque. Similarly, thurning Black Mosque into church in Sofia symbolizes liberation from the Ottomans. Open an appropriate topic and let's discuss them.

If I go back to the title, to say how much pressure Putin has put on Muslims, or to try to build 'whatabout' on things that are 500-600 years ago; today is nothing but burying our heads in the sand against the phenomenon that is currently happening and that we can prevent.

No, i asked you a question.

Why do you see a cartoon as bad but at same time have no problem to desecrate one of the most important greek orthodox places?

Why do you believe you have the right to insult us in the worst way possible but at same time demand respect?

I tell you something, respect is not for free my friend. Respect must be earned.

Your ataturk knew this dilemma, because of this he made it a museum. But Erdogan uses it to degrade and insult us.

I believe the best fate it could have now would be an earthquake to put it out of its misery.

 

[AZMwi]

Putin is saying what Muslims are saying. Regardless of his motives on the hind side, his statement should be welcomed.

Ukraine shares a border with Russia and USA+NATO are trying to establish a military foothold there. When you poke the bear (eagle or dragon per se), the bear (eagle or dragon) will respond. Any support from Muslim countries or not, Russia will act to safeguard its territory.

but his actions in Syria dont match his words

 

[dBSPL]

Your ataturk knew this dilemma, because of this he made it a museum. But Erdogan uses it to degrade and insult us.

Erdogan did not turn anytihng into a mosque. He opened a building to public use that is already a mosque.

Hagia Sophia was destroyed and rebuilt twice throughout history, burned by the Latins, even closed to worship for years, when the building was about to collapse due to earthquakes and neglect, it was strengthened by Mimar Sinan and turned into a mosque; It has hosted orthodox Catholic and Muslim prayers in its 15 centuries of life, and throughout history it has been seen as the precious treasure of those who have it, and respect have been shown. Muslims have always carefully protected it during the period of about 6 centuries that it has owned, and the building has brought its splendor to the present day.

If we're going to talk about respect, we have to put something more real.

The mosque located on Egnatiya road of Thessaloniki was transferred to the ownership of the Greek bank NGB (National Bank of Greece) in 1927. Later, the exterior of the mosque, which was sold to private individuals, was divided into a shop, and the interior was converted into a cinema and used for the screening of erotic films until the 80s.

Is that respect?

Faik Pasha Mosque in the city of Narda (Arta) in the Yanya region was converted into a church for a while after the population exchange. It is known that the mosque, which was later abandoned, was used as a bar-pavilion.

Is that respect?

On the other hand, mosques and historical buildings in many important cities such as the capital Athens, Yanya, Yenicei Vardar, Crete, Larisa and Kavala continue to share the same fate.

Fethiye Mosque, which is the oldest mosque in Athens, which does not have an official mosque open for worship, was used for many different purposes such as a military prison and warehouse after the city's separation from the Ottoman administration.

Is that respect? If only these buildings were converted into churches and the area continued to meet the worship needs of the people?

Believe me, I can give you more than a hundred examples. However, I can understand this insane... the two nations, which had lived together for centuries, drowned in a deep nationalism and civil war.

I don't blame you for these things, they are not your faults. But today, it is up to you to say something against this attack against Islam and be with us. That's the only thing that matters to me.

 

[Apollon]

Erdogan did not turn anytihng into a mosque. He opened a building to public use that is already a mosque.

Hagia Sophia was destroyed and rebuilt twice throughout history, burned by the Latins, even closed to worship for years, when the building was about to collapse due to earthquakes and neglect, it was strengthened by Mimar Sinan and turned into a mosque; It has hosted orthodox Catholic and Muslim prayers in its 15 centuries of life, and throughout history it has been seen as the precious treasure of those who have it, and respect have been shown. Muslims have always carefully protected it during the period of about 6 centuries that it has owned, and the building has brought its splendor to the present day.

If we're going to talk about respect, we have to put something more real.

The mosque located on Egnatiya road of Thessaloniki was transferred to the ownership of the Greek bank NGB (National Bank of Greece) in 1927. Later, the exterior of the mosque, which was sold to private individuals, was divided into a shop, and the interior was converted into a cinema and used for the screening of erotic films until the 80s.

Is that respect?

Faik Pasha Mosque in the city of Narda (Arta) in the Yanya region was converted into a church for a while after the population exchange. It is known that the mosque, which was later abandoned, was used as a bar-pavilion.

Is that respect?

On the other hand, mosques and historical buildings in many important cities such as the capital Athens, Yanya, Yenicei Vardar, Crete, Larisa and Kavala continue to share the same fate.

Fethiye Mosque, which is the oldest mosque in Athens, which does not have an official mosque open for worship, was used for many different purposes such as a military prison and warehouse after the city's separation from the Ottoman administration.

Is that respect? If only these buildings were converted into churches and the area continued to meet the worship needs of the people?

Believe me, I can give you more than a hundred examples. However, I can understand this insane... the two nations, which had lived together for centuries, drowned in a deep nationalism and civil war.

I don't blame you for these things, they are not your faults. But today, it is up to you to say something against this attack against Islam and be with us. That's the only thing that matters to me.

no no no buddy. No spain, no other thing.

This specific building.

You say drawing cartoons of your prophet is bad but at same time think we should just accept that one of our most holy places is thrown into the dirt and disrespected like that.

This building was our coronation cathedral. The most holy of the holy, not some backwater church in some village which you bring up as counter example.

As i said, the only positive outcome would be that an earthquake put its out of its misery.

You could not use it anymore to insult and belittle us and at same time we could get over it.

When one thinks what horrendous crimes were done in it during its last days, murders, massacres and rape, it would also be the best for the building to finally find peace after centuries of abuse.

 

[Foinikas]

he is probably trying to get support of muslim countries for his upcoming invasion of ukraine.

No. Russia has a big Muslim population and Muslims are citizens of Russia,just like the Orthodox and the Buddhists. Russia is also not politically correct like other countries. When certain idiotic SJW feminists get in a church and start dancing around and provoking,they get arrested. You rush to talk about Putin and that he killed many muslims,but how many of muslims have been killing muslims? The Chechens who killed their own were ok? The groups in Pakistan who killed their own were ok? The barbarians in Syria who beheaded other muslims were ok? You guys constantly nag about evil West and they don't respect Islam and they don't have blasphemy laws and they let all those people provoke etc.
And when somebody comes and takes your side...you are still not happy. A leader comes and talks about respecting Islam and you still nag.

 

[Apollon]

No. Russia has a big Muslim population and Muslims are citizens of Russia,just like the Orthodox and the Buddhists. Russia is also not politically correct like other countries. When certain idiotic SJW feminists get in a church and start dancing around and provoking,they get arrested. You rush to talk about Putin and that he killed many muslims,but how many of muslims have been killing muslims? The Chechens who killed their own were ok? The groups in Pakistan who killed their own were ok? The barbarians in Syria who beheaded other muslims were ok? You guys constantly nag about evil West and they don't respect Islam and they don't have blasphemy laws and they let all those people provoke etc.
And when somebody comes and takes your side...you are still not happy. A leader comes and talks about respecting Islam and you still nag.

The russian patriarch is also highly corrupted and has uncountable money laundry cases.

Putin also is no credible leader. He is a dwarf. Both in size and mind.