Punjabi Culture in the subcontinent and beyond….

[mughal arslan shah mirza]

Nope they are rajputs. Almost all rajput clans have a minority jatt section lol.



Yeah it's really interesting. It's a myth that Rajputs are rajasthani originally as a lot of Rajasthani rajputs are Punjabi actually lol, as I gave an example of the Bhattis of Jaisalmer.

BTW I saw a 44% south Indian "Punjabi muslim Pakistani" on harappadna. What might he be? Any idea?

What's funny is that this Ganges-centric non-sense which is based on propaganda by certain hindutvadis is being pushed on this board by Pakistanis themselves . I'm quite blown away to read it actually.
That person could be a mussali or something similar. For this sort of testing, as far as I'm concerned, you need lots and lots of samples man. Just like I mentioned earlier people in Punjab, AJK, Hazara frequently start calling themselves things like 'rajput' or other titles when they move out from the area/get rich/ educated so 'Individual sampling' is shady business.
The HGDP samples as per my knowledge were actually taken by a Chinese researcher but the recent Harrapadna one is not that reliable for me as there's not much oversight.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

They added a number of "muslim Punjabi gujjars" recently on harappadna. All of them were 31-33% south Indian. Some "muslim Punjabi jatts" were also added, and they also showed a ~31% average south Indian. All these clans seem to be related. And I'd imagine "Pahari rajput" and "Kashmiri" rajput to be the Chibhs of AJK, who migrated from Himachal only during the time of Aurangzeb. I bet the Punjabi rajputs like Bhatti etc would have a lower south Indian component.

All in all, in my opinion, pure jatts and rajputs should have around 27-28% south Indian.


Some members of the Chibh rajput royal family. They possessed two princely states; Bhimber and Khari Kharaili before Sikh and dogra invasions. The Khari Kharaili state in Mangla routed Sikh and dogra armies twice. The kid on the left displays strong south Indian features.

There is only one 1 punjabi gujjar on harappa with 31% s Indian and 40% Baloch, 13% caucasian component. They have not added any new samples since then. 5 muslim punjabi jats with average 30%. Anyway the Rajasthan rajputs are real even if they have 45%, it has nothing to do with it. Calling them fakes will be rediculous because they are original rajputs. They don't look like South Indians anyway.

one can't judge kid phenotype, and its always average that counts. He could have turned like the grown up men in picture even if dark skin tone which is normal. Also Haryana and Rajasthani jats are darker and look different then punjabi jats on average despite having less S Indian. Because their actual ASI which is not same as S indian component seem to be little higher.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

In Potohar, AJK, two main rajput clans are Janjuas(including the Khakhas of Muzaffarabad) and Jarrals, both of whom claim descent from Pandavas of mahabharata. My own Sohlar clan and the Narma Rajputs of Rawalpindi/AJK(Tikka Khan was a Narma) are said to be descendants of Parmara rajputs of Gujarat who migrated thousands of years ago.
f.

I was told that Tikkha khan was Janjua..Photohari probably like to join army more than any one else

General Muhammed Akbar Khan (P.A.1), First Muslim General of British Army & later Pakistan Army

General Muhammed Iftikhar Khan (Minhas) (Died in Air crash 1949)

General Asif Nawaz Janjua - Chief of Staff Pakistan Army.

General Muhammed Anwar Khan (Minhas)(First Engineer in Chief of Pakistan Army)

General Tikka Khan Janjua - Chief of Staff Pakistan Army.

General Muhammad Yusaf Khan Kaimkhani, former Vice Chief Of Army Staff of the Pakistan Army

General Iftikhar Janjua - Died on the frontline and honoured as a National Hero.

Lieutenant General (retd.) Mohammad Tariq

Brigadier (retd) Amir Gulistan Janjua and also Governor (retd) of NWFP

General Iftikhar Ali Khan (Manj, Alpial)

Lieutenant General Afzal Janjua

Lieutenant General Afzal Muzaffar

General Afzal Janjua

General Tariq Pervaiz Khan

Lt Gen Raja Saroop Khan former Governor of Punjab

Maj Gen Shah Nawaz Khan Janjua, Indian freedom fighter with the Indian National Army

Maj Gen Raja Sakhi Daler Khan Kashmiri freedom fighter with the Indian National Army

Maj Gen Rao Farman Ali, former Adviser to the Government of East Pakistan during 1971

Maj Gen Iftikhar Janjua, the most senior Pakistani officer to have been killed in battle during 1971

Brig Raja Habib ur Rahman Khan Freedom fighter with Indian National Army, Fateh-e-Bhimber (Liberator of
Bhimber) Azad Kashmir

Brig Amir Gulistan Janjua, former Governor of the North-West Frontier Province

Lieutenant General (retd) Rao Farman Ali Khan

General Ahsan Saleem Hyat (Vice Chief of Army Staff)

Brigadier Nisar Mahar

Brigadier Raja Fiaz Ahmad Janjua

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Nope they are rajputs. Almost all rajput clans have a minority jatt section lol.



Yeah it's really interesting. It's a myth that Rajputs are rajasthani originally as a lot of Rajasthani rajputs are Punjabi actually lol, as I gave an example of the Bhattis of Jaisalmer.

BTW I saw a 44% south Indian "Punjabi muslim Pakistani" on harappadna. What might he be? Any idea?

But Watto political family in Okara indeed claim to be jats, i will find source for it. The reason can be they are in central punjab.

Well no idea about that punjabi sample, since he didnt mention his biraderi. There is one Indian chamar with 40% s indian.

 

[Multani]

so a massali = a dalit?
what you the different baraderis in multan area?

i believe musallis are dalit converts. @Shabaz Sharif would know more about them, as i havent met any in life.

Brother in Multan Shareef we have to two main groups of people: locals and non-locals. Locals are Multanis who spreak Seraiki or other dialects of South Punjab. Non locals include Punjabis from the North, Pakistanis from other parts of Pakistani, and Muslims who immigrated from India [ a massive community, perhaps around 40% of the population ]. Each group has its own set of biradaris.

For example, the Muslims who came from India are primarily from Haryana / Delhi and Rajasthan. They speak Rohtaki, Khari boli, Mewati, Marwari, and are considered urdu speaking people. Those from east Punjab speak Punjabi.

These include a big number of Rajputs collectively called Rangharis [ Panwar, Bhatti, Chauhan, Rathore, Khanzada, Tomar etc. ], then Ghauris, Mughals, Sayyids, Pathans, Gujjars, Shaikhs, and other smaller biradaris.

In Multan Shareef, we have a famous neighbourhood called Gujjar Khadda. It is populated by Rohtakis. In the next post i will tell you about the local Multani biradaris.

 

[mughal arslan shah mirza]

@Multani

Brother, do most Biraderis get along with each other or are there issues?
And yeah Mussalis seem like a 'caste-less' group. What's the percentage of 'caste-less' type groups in Multan or South-Punjab in general. Thanks

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Well that was the point I was raising that there's not enough punjabi rajput or Gujjar samples to make a clear analysis about 'origins'. There's only two in this post of yours (meaning punjabi-pahari) and they're different to the people from UP precisely because they're punjabi.Does it make sense, brother? Are punjabi Gujjars expected to be same as UP Gujjars? (despite the fact that according to some they ORIGINATED in Rajasthan )
Or are punjabi Jatts expected to be same as UP jatts?
Even a Nai or Maliar claiming to be 'rajput' in punjab would most likely be less 'SI' than a UP rajput.

My point is simply this: These 'origin myths' are called origin myths for a reason. Chattha Jatts claim descent from Chauhan Rajputs. Ghumman Jatts claim descent from Janjua rajput (in fact there's 6 or 7 Jatt communities that do ). If all these Jatt's , Gujjars, Rajputs, Arain came yesterday to Punjab and from Rajasthan of all places, then might as well start calling us Rajasthanis. This is Hindu-centric and India-centric stuff. I'm surprised it's being pushed on this board lol

I don't know why your posts are directed at me lol, i have been saying that punjabis are not same as Rajasthanis, UP or Haryanas despite similar so called biraderis. And i completly agreed about these so called mythical hindu king origins who may not even existed thousands of years ago, i don't believe in them one bit. Basically both of us agree with each other lol

As harappadna shows punjabi gujjar is similar to punjabi jatt-rajput then any gujjar in India.

i believe musallis are dalit converts. @Shabaz Sharif would know more about them, as i havent met any in life.

Brother in Multan Shareef we have to two main groups of people: locals and non-locals. Locals are Multanis who spreak Seraiki or other dialects of South Punjab. Non locals include Punjabis from the North, Pakistanis from other parts of Pakistani, and Muslims who immigrated from India [ a massive community, perhaps around 40% of the population ]. Each group has its own set of biradaris.

For example, the Muslims who came from India are primarily from Haryana / Delhi and Rajasthan. They speak Rohtaki, Khari boli, Mewati, Marwari, and are considered urdu speaking people. Those from east Punjab speak Punjabi.

These include a big number of Rajputs collectively called Rangharis [ Panwar, Bhatti, Chauhan, Rathore, Khanzada, Tomar etc. ], then Ghauris, Mughals, Sayyids, Pathans, Gujjars, Shaikhs, and other smaller biradaris.

In Multan Shareef, we have a famous neighbourhood called Gujjar Khadda. It is populated by Rohtakis. In the next post i will tell you about the local Multani biradaris.

Doubt it about 40%, even Karachi have just 35-40% ''muhajirs'' and overall 8% of Pakistan total population. And stop calling other punjabis in Multan as non local.

 

[ghoul]

But Watto political family in Okara indeed claim to be jats, i will find source for it. The reason can be they are in central punjab.

Well no idea about that punjabi sample, since he didnt mention his biraderi. There is one Indian chamar with 40% s indian.

No man. Read page 491:

Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province - IBBETSON, Maclagan - Google Books

I was told that Tikkha khan was Janjua..Photohari probably like to join army more than any one else

General Muhammed Akbar Khan (P.A.1), First Muslim General of British Army & later Pakistan Army

General Muhammed Iftikhar Khan (Minhas) (Died in Air crash 1949)

General Asif Nawaz Janjua - Chief of Staff Pakistan Army.

General Muhammed Anwar Khan (Minhas)(First Engineer in Chief of Pakistan Army)

General Tikka Khan Janjua - Chief of Staff Pakistan Army.

General Muhammad Yusaf Khan Kaimkhani, former Vice Chief Of Army Staff of the Pakistan Army

General Iftikhar Janjua - Died on the frontline and honoured as a National Hero.

Lieutenant General (retd.) Mohammad Tariq

Brigadier (retd) Amir Gulistan Janjua and also Governor (retd) of NWFP

General Iftikhar Ali Khan (Manj, Alpial)

Lieutenant General Afzal Janjua

Lieutenant General Afzal Muzaffar

General Afzal Janjua

General Tariq Pervaiz Khan

Lt Gen Raja Saroop Khan former Governor of Punjab

Maj Gen Shah Nawaz Khan Janjua, Indian freedom fighter with the Indian National Army

Maj Gen Raja Sakhi Daler Khan Kashmiri freedom fighter with the Indian National Army

Maj Gen Rao Farman Ali, former Adviser to the Government of East Pakistan during 1971

Maj Gen Iftikhar Janjua, the most senior Pakistani officer to have been killed in battle during 1971

Brig Raja Habib ur Rahman Khan Freedom fighter with Indian National Army, Fateh-e-Bhimber (Liberator of
Bhimber) Azad Kashmir

Brig Amir Gulistan Janjua, former Governor of the North-West Frontier Province

Lieutenant General (retd) Rao Farman Ali Khan

General Ahsan Saleem Hyat (Vice Chief of Army Staff)

Brigadier Nisar Mahar

Brigadier Raja Fiaz Ahmad Janjua

Tikka Khan was a Narma rajput brother. He wasn't a Janjua. A famous Janjua is a Raja Farooq Haider Khan, the ex-president of AJK. He's a Khakha rajput, who are a sub-caste of Janjua rajputs.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Tikka Khan was a Narma rajput brother. He wasn't a Janjua. A famous Janjua is a Raja Farooq Haider Khan, the ex-president of AJK. He's a Khakha rajput, who are a sub-caste of Janjua rajputs.

May be i dont have much knowledge about clans..Its first time i heard nirma rajpout..bhatti minhas janjua are common. what about prsent ISI dircetor genral..he also rajpout

 

[mughal arslan shah mirza]

I don't know why your posts are directed at me lol, i have been saying that punjabis are not same as Rajasthanis, UP or Haryanas despite similar so called biraderis. And i completly agreed about these so called mythical hindu king origins who may not even existed thousands of years ago, i don't believe in them one bit. Basically both of us agree with each other lol

As harappadna shows punjabi gujjar is similar to punjabi jatt-rajput then any gujjar in India.

Holy Guacamoli brother, it wasn't referred to you lol. As far as these 'myths' are concerned, you'll be surprised that they're a point of extensive propaganda for certain elements outside these boards, Hindutva and their cousins. This is Ganges-centric stuff that's been pushed forward historically and is still being pushed . Granted, there's a lot of to and fro between tribes living in Punjab and people to their East and WEST as borders were fluid but this doesn't mean that punjabis (most of them) originated in Rajasthan lol.

There's another theory that's being pushed forward that says that many Jatt's , Khokhars, Sials came from South-India and East-India because the Gupta empire preferred them moving here

May be i dont have much knowledge about clans..Its first time i heard nirma rajpout..bhatti minhas janjua are common. what about prsent ISI dircetor genral..he also rajpout

He's Janjua,

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

No man. Read page 491:

Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province - IBBETSON, Maclagan - Google Books
.

Yes i know Watto come as rajputs on different internet sources, i was just talking about Manzoor Watto who claim to be jat.

Elections 2013 | PPPP | MIAN MANZOOR AHMAD KHAN WATTOO profile

Federal Minister Mian Manzoor watto Compaigning for Asghar Jatt

You know how biraderi politics works in rural punjab.

 

[mughal arslan shah mirza]

Two Janjuas who have Nishan-e-Haider:

Saif Ali Khan Janjua (originally Hilal-e-Kashmir which was later turned to Nishan-e-Haider)

Sowar Muhammad Hussain Janjua Shaheed

Just wondering if somebody knows where to see the real picture of Saif Ali Khan Janjua

 

[ghoul]

Pakistan's favourite Janjua. He's from Rawalpindi and a Janjua rajput. Which Indian states will he pass in?

 

[mughal arslan shah mirza]

Well his pheno seems Nord-Indid inspired so I don't know.
What do you think about Sowar muhammad Hussain Janjua. I think he has a very commanding and really masculine personality. I can see him going far in the ranks had he not been martyred (though you can't predict these things, I know)
Also General Asif Nawaz Janjua ( looks like a true man of action)

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Which clan he was from? first guy who got victoria cross
subedar khudadad khan..he is pakistani