Pompeo to claim US didn’t quit Iran nuclear deal to make UN impose arms embargo

[QWECXZ]

Like I said earlier, nothing is signed here. The fact they're were a participant initially does not mean they're eternally in the deal. They by their own words left and stopped by the terms of the deal.

I'm afraid that the status of the US as a signatory of the deal has not changed and since there hasn't been an addendum or something that legally changes the text of the deal to exclude the US, they're still a participant to the deal.

That only applies to the current members of the deal. If the Americans could have triggered the dispute mechanism, then why have they not done so already?

To get the maximum benefit out of the deal? Had they activated it earlier, Iran might've reacted to it by raising uranium enrichment level. But now they have kept Iran in the deal for two years after pulling out of the deal, forced Iran to follow its obligations under the deal with the vain hope of UNSC sanctions on arms deal terminating by September 2020, and when the right moment comes, they will activate it. Why do you think the Europeans pretend to still be in the deal while in reality they are not and they are complying with the US sanctions on Iran?

 

[Philosopher]

I'm afraid that the status of the US as a signatory of the deal has not changed and yes, since there hasn't been an addendum or something that legally changes their status, they're still a participant to the deal.

These are nothing but poinst of contentions. At the end of the day, from my view there is nothing legally on the side of the Americans that proves they're still in the deal. On the other hand, the fact they openly declared themselves out and ceased abiding by the terms of the deal point to the opposite. They may try to argue their point, but I'd be surprised if they get far.

To get the maximum benefit out of the deal? Had they activated it earlier, Iran might've reacted to it by raising uranium enrichment level. But now they have kept Iran in the deal for two years after pulling out of the deal, forced Iran to follow its obligations under the deal in the hope of UNSC sanctions on arms deal terminating by September 2020, and when the right moment comes, they will activate it. Why do you think the Europeans pretend to still be in the deal while in reality they are not and they are complying with the US sanctions on Iran?

I am talking in recent months when Iran started to diminish its contributions to the deal they could have used this mechanism if they could. You could think there is this good cop bad cop game going on from the EU and the Americans, but one would think if the Americans truly wanted a "maximum pressure campaign" they would have snapped back the sanctions.

At the end of the day, time is what will clarify all these things, so it's best to just sit and watch.

 

[QWECXZ]

These are nothing but poinst of contentions. At the end of the day, from my view there is nothing legally on the side of the Americans that proves they're still in the deal. On the other hand, the fact they openly declared themselves out and ceased abiding by the terms of the deal point to the opposite. They may try to argue their point, but I'd be surprised if they get far.

At the end of the day, what is legally binding is what is on paper. Not public media. And honestly, I think their point is valid.

I am talking in recent months when Iran started to diminish its contributions to the deal they could have used this mechanism if they could. You could think there is this good cop bad cop game going on from the EU and the Americans, but one would think if the Americans truly wanted a "maximum pressure campaign" they would have snapped back the sanctions.

At the end of the day, time is what will clarify all these things, so it's best to just sit and watch.

I'm sorry, but what did Iran do in recent months that challenges the deal? Are you talking about all that show about exceeding the 300 kilogram limit? Guess what? We are still pretty much around that limit. Our 3.5% uranium reserves barely reaches half a tonne. Last time the IAEA reported on it, our LEU reserves was around 350 kilograms. And we have 0 grams of 20% uranium. In other words, we haven't even reached half way where we were in 2008.

 

[raptor22]

Someone are now so desperate that are denying themselves ...

Ceasing U.S. Participation in the JCPOA and Taking Additional Action to Counter Iran’s Malign Influence and Deny Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon

Issued on: May 8, 2018

MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY OF STATE
THE SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY
THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE SECRETARY OF ENERGY
THE SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY
THE ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT AND CHIEF OF STAFF
THE UNITED STATES TRADE REPRESENTATIVE
THE UNITED STATES PERMANENT REPRESENTATIVE TO THE UNITED NATIONS
THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE
THE DIRECTOR OF THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
THE ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT FOR NATIONAL SECURITY AFFAIRS
THE COUNSEL TO THE PRESIDENT
THE ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT FOR ECONOMIC POLICY
THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF
THE DIRECTOR OF THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

SUBJECT: Ceasing United States Participation in the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action and Taking Additional Action to Counter Iran’s Malign Influence and Deny Iran All Paths to a Nuclear Weapon

On January 12, 2018, I outlined two possible paths forward — the JCPOA’s disastrous flaws would be fixed by May 12, 2018, or, failing that, the United States would cease participation in the agreement. I made clear that this was a last chance, and that absent an understanding to fix the JCPOA, the United States would not continue to implement it.

That understanding has not materialized, and I am today making good on my pledge to end the participation of the United States in the JCPOA. I do not believe that continuing to provide JCPOA-related sanctions relief to Iran is in the national interest of the United States, and I will not affirm what I know to be false

Sec. 2. Ending United States Participation in the JCPOA. The Secretary of State shall, in consultation with the Secretary of the Treasury and the Secretary of Energy, take all appropriate steps to cease the participation of the United States in the JCPOA.

DONALD J. TRUMP

whitehouse.gov​

 

[Philosopher]

At the end of the day, what is legally binding is what is on paper. Not public media. And honestly, I think their point is valid.

Like I said already, there is nothing in the JCPOA that gives them this eternal membership of the deal even after they've stopped abiding by the deal. They have zero legal basis for their claims. China and Russia are not obliged to give any credence to their claim here.

I'm sorry, but what did Iran do in recent months that challenges the deal? Are you talking about all that show about exceeding the 300 kilogram limit? Guess what? We are still pretty much around that limit. Our 3.5% uranium reserves barely reaches half a tonne. And we have 0 grams of 20% uranium. In other words, we haven't even reached where we were in 2008.

Still, Iran "snapped back" on its commitment. Continuing centrifuge development is an important one for example. The whole point of the UNSC snap back sanction is to re-enforce sanctions if Iran stops abiding by certain parts. It does not matter how insignificant you find those Iranian actions. The point is, if the Americans could, then they could have snapped back the sanctions. Now if your claims of Eu being in this game with American together hold merit, then all the EU has to do is trigger the dispute mechanism and the embargo can be placed again, no need for USA to use this strategy they just claimed. Just sit and watch what happens.

 

[QWECXZ]

I feel we're going in circles here now. Like I said already, there is nothing in the JCPOA that gives them this eternal membership of the deal even after they've stopped abiding by the deal. They have zero legal basis for their claims. China and Russia are not obliged to give any credence to their claim here.

You don't need something to grant you an "eternal" membership. That's assumed by default. Unless you are legally excluded from it and there is no such thing in the deal. What if the US temporarily return to the deal and activate it? What prevents the US from returning to the deal even if we assume that it's not in the deal currently?

Still, Iran "snapped back" on its commitment. Continuing centrifuge development is an important one for example. The whole point of the UNSC snap back sanction is to re-enforce sanctions if Iran stops abiding by certain parts. It does not matter how insignificant you find those Iranian actions. The point is, if the Americans could, then they could have snapped back the sanctions. Now if your claims of Eu being in this game with American together hold merit, then all the EU has to do is trigger the dispute mechanism and the embargo can be placed again, no need for us to use this strategy. Like I told you, just sit and watch what happens.

You don't get it. It does matter how insignificant it is. They are forcing Iran to fulfill its obligations without giving Iran any benefit of the deal at all. What can you do with 350 kilograms of LEU? You can't run the Bushehr reactor with it even for a year. It's absolutely good for nothing. Why would they change this? Time is passing in their favor. LOL The status quo is completely in their favor now.
Start 20% enrichment like before in mass scale and I will tell you if they will activate it or not. And our current SWU power is technically negligible for Iran to return to its 2009 conditions in 5 years.

Bottom line: UNSC arms sanctions on Iran won't be terminated. Iran will have to stay in the deal. Just sit and watch.

 

[Philosopher]

That's assumed by default.

Nowhere does it state this is "assumed by default". By putting their sanctions on Iran, the US broke their part of the agreement. Meaning they are no longer abiding by the deal i.e left it. You're waiting for some legal document to appear to prove that.

Unless you are legally excluded from it and there is no such thing in the deal.

And how would you "legally" exclude anyone from it? The members decide whether to abide or not.

What if the US temporarily return to the deal and activate it? What prevents the US from returning to the deal even if we assume that it's not in the deal currently?

That's not how it works. Even if they were to return, they have to raise the dispute mechanism, they will not automatically put back the embargo. Iran could just remove its own snapback and everything is fine.

Read this below:

https://www.iranwatch.org/our-publi...nism-resolving-noncompliance-or-stalling-time

You don't get it. It does matter how insignificant it is. They are forcing Iran to fulfill its obligations without giving Iran any benefit of the deal at all. Why would they change this? Time is passing in their favor. LOL The status quo is good for them.
Start 20% enrichment and I will tell you if they will activate it or not. And our current SWU power is technically negligible for Iran to return to its 2009 conditions in 5 years.

Buying time for what? You do realise Iran could easily go back to its pre-JCPOA levels, right?
One could say, it is Iran that is buying time to see what will happen in the next US election before deciding on what to do with this deal. Iran is also in control here. If it wanted, it could leave the deal, what do you think is stopping it?

Bottom line: UNSC arms sanctions on Iran won't be terminated. Iran will have to stay in the deal. Just sit and watch.

This is just your own conjecture. Nothing more. And yes, going back to what I said at the beginning, time will clarify your claims.

 

[QWECXZ]

Nowhere does it state this is "assumed by default". By putting their sanctions on Iran, the US broke their part of the agreement. Meaning they are no longer abiding by the deal i.e left it. You're waiting for some legal document to appear to prove that.

By default, an agreement continues as before unless an addendum is attached to it that changes it. That's "by default" by definition.

And how would you "legally" exclude anyone from it? The members decide whether to abide or not.

By an addendum approved by the UNSC which is technically impossible because the US won't let that happen, which again proves that the JCPOA is flawed! Surprise!

That's not how it works. Even if they were to return, they have to raise the dispute mechanism, they will not automatically put back the embargo. Iran could just remove its own snapback and everything is fine.

Why would they need to go through the dispute mechanism exactly? What prevents the US from returning to the deal?

Read this below:

https://www.iranwatch.org/our-publi...nism-resolving-noncompliance-or-stalling-time

Did you see the flow chart in this link you sent?

Do you see "US could block consensus" in dashed lines?

Buying time for what? You do realise Iran could easily go back to its pre-JCPOA levels, right?
One could say, it is Iran that is buying time to see what will happen in the next US election before deciding on what to do with this deal. Iran is also in control here. If it wanted, it could leave the deal, what do you think is stopping it?

No, it can't. Best case scenario, if Iran starts to employ its full capacity, it will take Iran 2 years to go back to its pre-JCPOA levels.

And no. You can't say it is Iran that is buying time because that's absolutely stupid. Iran's whole financial system has been cut off from its main customers. Our oil exports have dropped to below 500,000 barrels per day. We are paying a huge price and they're paying absolutely no price at all. And our uranium and UF6 reserves are not even close to where we were 12 years ago. It's obvious who is benefiting from the deal and who is getting screwed over. I'm surprised you can't see it. If Iran leaves the deal, 4 rounds of UNSC sanctions will be back which means that any country in the world will be able to enforce them legally. And we will get one step closer to Article 42 of Chapter 7 of the UNSC.

This is just your own conjecture. Nothing more. And yes, going back to what I said at the beginning, time will clarify your claims.

It's reality. Just sit and watch.

 

[Philosopher]

By default, an agreement continues as before unless an addendum is attached to it that changes it. That's "by default" by definition.

No such requirement exists in this JCPOA, so expecting something like that will not work in my opinion. This deal really works by commitment of its members.

By an addendum approved by the UNSC which is technically impossible because the US won't let that happen, which again proves that the JCPOA is flawed! Surprise!

It is flawed, no question, but like I said above, I don't see an addendum like you say being necessary.

Why would they need to go through the dispute mechanism exactly? What prevents the US from returning to the deal?

No, I did not say that will stop them returning. To return, they would have to remove sanctions etc. Do you see that happening?

Do you see "US could block consensus" in dashed lines?

Even if go through all that to return to the deal, raise the dispute mechanism, as long as Iran abides by its terms, then that attempt is futile. And don't forget, this whole process takes time. It was certainly silly of the Rouhani administration to allow such a system to be implemented, but from my view, it's not the end of the world.

 

[QWECXZ]

No, I did not say that will stop them returning. To return, they would have to remove sanctions etc. Do you see that happening?

Why not? They can remove sanctions temporarily in theory while in practice they talk to their allies and convince them that they still should not deal with Iran. It will all be temporary until they do what they want.

Even if go through all that to return to the deal, raise the dispute mechanism, as long as Iran abides by its terms, then that attempt is futile. And don't forget, this whole process takes time. It was certainly silly of the Rouhani administration to allow such a system to be implemented, but from my view, it's not the end of the world.

Have you read about the US accusations against Iran from 2000 to 2004? Most of them were fabricated. And you do realize that if Iran sticks to the deal, it will be bad for us too. Right?

 

[Aramagedon]

Iran will buy dozens of customized fighters from Russia & China in 2020 Oct.

 

[Philosopher]

Why not? They can remove sanctions temporarily in theory while in practice they talk to their allies and convince them that they still should not deal with Iran. It will all be temporary until they do what they want.

Give there is 6 month until the embargo lifts, if they would want to implement such a thing, they better start soon. I simply don't see this happening.

And you do realize that if Iran sticks to the deal, it will be bad for us too. Right?

If it continues to stick to the deal indefinitely then that would obviously be a foolish act. Like I mentioned to earlier, Iran is staying in the deal right now just to see what happens in the US elections. If Trump wins, then the deal is most certainly done. If the democrats win, then we can expect the deal to stay with the Americans returning.

 

[Shams313]

Iran will buy dozens of customized fighters from Russia & China in 2020 Oct.

Its already happenin, ongoing t90 m production ..

Hopefully there will be some space for new deals, helicopters and su30..

 

[zartosht]

"a clown masquerading as a diplomat" the perfect description of Pompeo by zariff..

US actions and statements are like something out of an alternate universe..... They will literally try to gaslight you to your face without a shred of shame or integrity....

They don't even give a shit anymore if their statements make any sense. If they have signed any agreements, or given their word or anything....

literally a rogue entity, that has become an absolute menace and parasite on humanity.... what an abominitaion, parasitic cancer this new world 300 year old mutt country has become.

 

[Aspen]

Typical American politician

Pompeo showing his true colors