PN mini-submarine fleet

[JohnWick]

What's new in PN submarine fleet ?

 

[JamD]

Also I think it is best to be extremely suspicious of defence manufacturer claims. I will give a Pakistani example from the recent IDEAS. Look at this absolute horse****:

Some company that IMPORTS some QUADROTORS made this and was allowed to show this embarrassment. There are other things about Cavalier/Blitzkrieg/Pasha/ThisMonthsNewName that are equally embarrassing but "parday main rehnay do". The point is defence companies REGULARLY oversell their products. It is OKAY to ask probing specific questions to get to the bottom of such things. I've given Pakistani examples here just to show you this isn't a Turkish problem. This is a human problem.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

What's new in PN submarine fleet ?

Apparently, nothing but an old man fighting a lost cause.

Also I think it is best to be extremely suspicious of defence manufacturer claims. I will give a Pakistani example from the recent IDEAS. Look at this absolute horse****:
View attachment 525576



Some company that IMPORTS some QUADROTORS made this and was allowed to show this embarrassment. There are other things about Cavalier/Blitzkrieg/Pasha/ThisMonthsNewName that are equally embarrassing but "parday main rehnay do". The point is defence companies REGULARLY oversell their products. It is OKAY to ask probing specific questions to get to the bottom of such things. I've given Pakistani examples here just to show you this isn't a Turkish problem. This is a human problem.

Which company posted this?

 

[JamD]

Which company posted this?

The company's name is actually on the poster UAS-G. I had to google too.
http://uas-global.com/

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

We love Pakistan as we love our homeland. This love and respect is firmly grounded. And will not diminished by insults to be given to us here.

We come when the state of Pakistan says "come". we go when the state of Pakistan says "go". We have no geopolitical goals on Pakistan, like some others. We only have prayers because Pakistan carries the DNA of the great and powerful Muslim Asia.

We are not forced to sell any system to the Pakistani state. Those who question the effectiveness of the Turkish industry in the Pakistan defense sector should start with the state organs of Pakistan.

We made one request from you. If you are uncomfortable with this situation, if you want to proceed with more Chinese systems, be honest. Do not manipulate the Turkish defense industry with lies. Look, there are at least 7-8 lies on the last two pages. When we wanted to correct them, we were accused of wrongdoing or as a cheerleader...

Do not do this. In the most difficult time these Turkish brothers will be shoulder to shoulder with you. We want you to have fairness and honesty.

This is the last message I have written under this title. Thanks.

My dear, if "we" are not ready to any more insult, then "we" should not be giving insults. We also retain the right to be critical of anyone, and with all due respect, stop acting like you are doing us favors, and are some kind of saviors.

The company's name is actually on the poster UAS-G. I had to google too.
http://uas-global.com/

Very interesting. Loves to takes and posts pictures. Pakistan's only authorized UAV company is a bit stretch. Also, most of these meetings and customers are governed by Official Secrets Act 1923, so posting everything on the website is a bit of a violation. Could be some consequences there. Everyone has a right to make marketing strategies, and his is a bit "different." I have my doubts about a mono wing stealth UCAV since i know the challenges.

To all our dear Turkish contributors who I seem to have so deeply offended, I apologize. In no way do I or we as a country not value your efforts, opinions, or contribution to the defence of our country. I am just a old man who is ready to die and move on. Please accept my sincere apology. Kindly keep contributing to this forum to the best of your abilities and understanding.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

This was the technical point raised and in all the replies I have not seen THIS PARTICULAR point answered. Yes laurels of STM have been detailed (I am sure they are doing great things) but the fact remains the original point raised was not answered. In this battle of BilalKhans I will have to side with 777. We are the buyer and we have the right to ask questions about things we may be sinking money into. Just because someone is from a "brotherly country" doesn't mean they get a free pass from technical scrutiny.

That being said accusations were thrown around from both sides, which spoils the atmosphere of the forum. But I still feel 777's original technical question was never answered and a lot of "hey look at this other stuff" mixed in with nationalism was thrown around.

Also, for a second there I thought @Bilal Khan (Quwa) account got hacked or something. Very out of character from you.

@JamD I wasn't making the point whether Turkey is all that (or not), but that when the Turks post info or thoughts that don't align with 777, the insinuation that the Turkish enthusiasts are connected to certain companies was, for me, crossing a line. Don't you think that's a statement or thought that could've been kept away? Don't you think 777 could've just ended this saying that both sides aren't on the same plane in terms of info and focus on the technical issues?

 

[dBSPL]

My dear, if "we" are not ready to any more insult, then "we" should not be giving insults. We also retain the right to be critical of anyone, and with all due respect, stop acting like you are doing us favors, and are some kind of saviors.

I didn't say that, or even not implied.

You don't understand what I wrote? If you want something from us, we will be pleased. If you don't want anything, we won't force you to do anything.

Pakistan's savior is God , then noble people who made Pakistan.

First you lied, then you didn't fix your lie. And insult us . Now you have begun to read the minds of people from your magic sphere.

It's really sad. Please not continue this discussion anymore. Because I'm ashamed to be dragged into such a debate.

 

[Dazzler]

I didn't say that, or even not implied.

You don't understand what I wrote? If you want something from us, we will be pleased. If you don't want anything, we won't force you to do anything.

Do "you" have any idea how "you" literally dragged PA into buying ATAK, and the now regretted PNS Muawin?? Should i re-share the news pieces where Turks literally claimed to have signed the helicopter deal on their own without a word from Pakistani authorities?

If that's not dragging, what is?

@JamD I wasn't making the point whether Turkey is all that (or not), but that when the Turks post info or thoughts that don't align with 777, the insinuation that the Turkish enthusiasts are connected to certain companies was, for me, crossing a line. Don't you think that's a statement or thought that could've been kept away? Don't you think 777 could've just ended this saying that both sides aren't on the same plane in terms of info and focus on the technical issues?

Are you Faisal.K from Pakdef by some chance? Just asking.

 

[JamD]

@JamD I wasn't making the point whether Turkey is all that (or not), but that when the Turks post info or thoughts that don't align with 777, the insinuation that the Turkish enthusiasts are connected to certain companies was, for me, crossing a line. Don't you think that's a statement or thought that could've been kept away? Don't you think 777 could've just ended this saying that both sides aren't on the same plane in terms of info and focus on the technical issues?

It's not that they don't align with 777. It's that they indulged in a lot of "whataboutism". I'm not defending any insinuations made by 777, but I can understand his frustration in the face of whataboutism when his single point technical issue is completely ignored. 777 could have ended the discussion with what you said. And our Turkish friends could have ended the discussion with "yes we haven't designed and built a mini-sub but we intend to and have the technical expertise for it" or "here's a mini-sub designed and built by us".

 

[dBSPL]

Do "you" have any idea how "you" literally dragged PA into buying ATAK, and the now regretted PNS Muawin?? Should i re-share the news pieces where Turks literally claimed to have signed the helicopter deal on their own without a word from Pakistani authorities?

If that's not dragging, what is?

Am I the addressee for these questions?

I have no idea of the truth of the claims you're saying. If you have proof that the Pakistani state has been damaged by the Turkish authorities, we can discuss it here.

My reason for my involvement in the subject is the disinformation. And I explained in my previous posts where is the wrong expressions. Please talk with your conscience, is it a crime to correcting a false expression?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

It's not that they don't align with 777. It's that they indulged in a lot of "whataboutism". I'm not defending any insinuations made by 777, but I can understand his frustration in the face of whataboutism when his single point technical issue is completely ignored. 777 could have ended the discussion with what you said. And our Turkish friends could have ended the discussion with "yes we haven't designed and built a mini-sub but we intend to and have the technical expertise for it" or "here's a mini-sub designed and built by us".

I absolutely agree.

@Dazzler Yes.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

I didn't say that, or even not implied.

You don't understand what I wrote? If you want something from us, we will be pleased. If you don't want anything, we won't force you to do anything.

Pakistan's savior is God , then noble people who made Pakistan.

First you lied, then you didn't fix your lie. And insult us . Now you have begun to read the minds of people from your magic sphere.

It's really sad. Please not continue this discussion anymore. Because I'm ashamed to be dragged into such a debate.

I have apologized to you and others from Turkey. here is it again.

To all our dear Turkish contributors who I seem to have so deeply offended, I apologize. In no way do I or we as a country not value your efforts, opinions, or contribution to the defence of our country. I am just a old man who is ready to die and move on. Please accept my sincere apology. Kindly keep contributing to this forum to the best of your abilities and understanding.

I now reserve comment on your words, past, present and future. All the best to you.

 

[dBSPL]

I have apologized to you and others from Turkey. here is it again.

To all our dear Turkish contributors who I seem to have so deeply offended, I apologize. In no way do I or we as a country not value your efforts, opinions, or contribution to the defence of our country. I am just a old man who is ready to die and move on. Please accept my sincere apology. Kindly keep contributing to this forum to the best of your abilities and understanding.

I now reserve comment on your words, past, present and future. All the best to you.

The answers I wrote about the subject are in the previous pages. Under the titles such as STM's current design activities, current workload which comes from SSB, MILDEN TS1700 works and other design activities for IDEF 2019 preparation... Here you were claim that the STM not have any design activity and that it is a typical blue collar company, a shipyard. When I said STM is not a shipyard, the all these discussion came out.

I cant understand how i be a unfair, when i just want to correct some misinformation. Title of Cheerleader was not enough, and I was labeled as an arrogant idiot who saw himself as the savior of Pakistan. If this is not a communication accident, I learned something that opened my horizons about some friends today.

Please forgive me for what i writing here and all make Helal your rights for me in this...

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Once on my travels to South America, the local Spanish speaking officers used the word "propaganda" for marketing. While we consider it as a negative word, thats the literal translation they use for all things marketing. I have been accused to spread dis-information, but for last three years, I have tried to inform the users to the best of my ability. Information, or disinformation, is quite relative and is your perspective really.

I was a fighter pilot once, and now, just an old man who sometimes does not have control over his words. Yes, I sometimes offend, but I have no agenda against Turkey, or any other country. I will continue to call spade a spade, and some of you will not find my opinions kind, well worded, or diplomatic.

All the personal attacks, personal life insinuations, and personal insults are not really needed. You can simply disagree with my opinion, or choice of words. While in my 80s, i cannot really change the way i think or write.

The answers I wrote about the subject are in the previous pages. Under the titles such as STM's current design activities, current workload which comes from SSB, MILDEN TS1700 works and other design activities for IDEF 2019 preparation... Here you were claim that the STM not have any design activity and that it is a typical blue collar company, a shipyard. When I said STM is not a shipyard, the all these discussion came out.

I cant understand how i be a unfair, when i just want to correct some misinformation. Title of Cheerleader was not enough, and I was labeled as an arrogant idiot who saw himself as the savior of Pakistan. If this is not a communication accident, I learned something that opened my horizons about some friends today.

Please forgive me for what i writing here and all make Helal your rights for me in this...

I encourage you to always speak your mind, now and in the future, even if it offends and irks the likes of old fools like myself. My only submission to intellectuals like yourself, if free and not tied to anyone, is to be critical thinkers and question everything that you come across, even if it was from your own country.

 

[dBSPL]

Once on my travels to South America, the local Spanish speaking officers used the word "propaganda" for marketing. While we consider it as a negative word, thats the literal translation they use for all things marketing. I have been accused to spread dis-information, but for last three years, I have tried to inform the users to the best of my ability. Information, or disinformation, is quite relative and is your perspective really.

I was a fighter pilot once, and now, just an old man who sometimes does not have control over his words. Yes, I sometimes offend, but I have no agenda against Turkey, or any other country. I will continue to call spade a spade, and some of you will not find my opinions kind, well worded, or diplomatic.

All the personal attacks, personal life insinuations, and personal insults are not really needed. You can simply disagree with my opinion, or choice of words. While in my 80s, i cannot really change the way i think or write.



I encourage you to always speak your mind, now and in the future, even if it offends and irks the likes of old fools like myself. My only submission to intellectuals like yourself, if free and not tied to anyone, is to be critical thinkers and question everything that you come across, even if it was from your own country.

I have been operating in the maritime sector in Turkey and I have a close relationship with many shipyards. STM is not a shipyard as you claim, and all my writings are about that.

I know closely the many falses and shortcomings in Turkey's maritime industry sectors and if anyone wants i can explain them one by one. But at this point we must adopt a fair and honest approach.

I'm sorry to see that you could not even show the virtue to correct your words that you have spent without knowledge. Therefore, first you should apply your advice in your own life.