PLA's Type 052D destroyers can beat Vietnam's Su-22s: report

[Deino]

We buy hundreds of second hand at very cheap price decades ago, when China still not have Su-27 / J-11.

Today, there're hundreds of China J6, J7, J8 ... as you know.
If they are still useful, why not using them?

FYI, J-7 is the most quantitive aircraft in PLAAF,

The 44th Fighter Division was established in July 1969. The division is organized into three regiments and reportedly flies the J-6 and J-7 aircraft.

Yet another post that shows how little you know and understand of this topic !

First of all Your argument might be valid - YES, the J-7 is still the most numerous aircraft - but only to second rate units.
If You look closely, then the PLAAF and in recent years the PLANAF even more has dramatically expanded the numbers of the fourth generation types in front-line units. Even more the J-6 is now gone completely and the Navy also operates no J-7 any more.

Regarding the 44. Division You mention ... YES it is organised into three regiments (AR) - like any other PLAAF-division - and it operates one AR with J-10A/AS and two with J-7B or H ... and the image You posted is an old J-7IIK operated once by the "Special Missiles Testing Unit".

 

[BoQ77]

Yet another post that shows how little you know and understand of this topic !

First of all Your argument might be valid - YES, the J-7 is still the most numerous aircraft - but only to second rate units.
If You look closely, then the PLAAF and in recent years the PLANAF even more has dramatically expanded the numbers of the fourth generation types in front-line units. Even more the J-6 is now gone completely and the Navy also operates no J-7 any more.

Regarding the 44. Division You mention ... YES it is organised into three regiments (AR) - like any other PLAAF-division - and it operates one AR with J-10A/AS and two with J-7B or H ... and the image You posted is an old J-7IIK operated once by the "Special Missiles Testing Unit".

Be cool, @Deino
I think you misunderstand something. Reduce emotion, insult lines please.

[BLUE] The era of Su-22 is only choice for VAF in SCS patrol gone. The difference is our second rate units still could have enough range to operate in SCS. Served as training platform too. Mig-21 is totally decommissioned.

[RED] the first rate, we have the same as PLAAF : Su-27SK, Su-30MK2V . And still could respond faster to any activity in SCS thanks our coastal position.

Our Su-22, Su-27, Su-30 pilots mastered the very low flying above sea water level skills for decades. because we bought Sukhoi for only that.

We also wonder what's the next candidate. As some sources said there're some more su-30SM. But they could be Gripen, Mirage, Typhoon, F16 ... or even F-35 ten years later.

According to that,
Su-22 quantity reduced to only 1 squadron
2 squadron of Su30-SM
3 squadron of Su30-MK2V
1 squadron of Su-27SKM/UBM
1 squadron of Yak-130 ( dual use; training and combat )
--------------
In conclusion, 1 last squadron of Su-22 would be our oldest fleet in VAF

 

[Deino]

Again You simply don't want to understand:

BLUE: Why do You mention the Su-22's longer range - "it can operate in SCS" - when first the PLAAF's J-7 are not used there and second the PLANAF no longer uses any ?

RED: why should this matter ? ... if a true conflict arises the PLANAF will use the newly established bases exactly in the heart of the SCS ... so what ? But we hall hope there will be no conflict.
... and why do You think the PLANAF can't fly low with their Flankers ?

Even more Your map is wrong, the VAF has no Yak-130 yet ...

 

[Brainsucker]

Vietnam newly upgraded Su-22 with ADS Talisman

Source: PLA's Type 052D destroyers can beat Vietnam's Su-22s: report | Page 5

Those missiles are not KH-59ME. the glass one is KH-29TE. It's range is 16 nautical range for high altitude range.While the X-58 is actually KH-58. Both are missile that launched from high altitude area.

 

[Penguin]

This topic was bragged by British servicemen at that time. I forgot which carrier was it. The Brits were pestering Americans at that time. The news probably true as the Americans were left speechless without arguing back. The source came from these servicemen and from news articles and military naval books from 90's, internet was non~existence until 1994 when it was available outside America.

There is no record any Exocet firing during beyond the USS Stark attack in 1987. The BB Winsconsin incident is the only comparable incident.

 

[Brainsucker]

RED: those bases can't use if a true conflict arise. I won't explain more to avoid spoil
BLUE: Hope is good, but RED was newly created aiming to create conflict. FYI, no other claimant of SCS ever built military/air bases on their occupied rocks, but on natural islands
PURPLE: I never said that. Different sides different tactics.
YAK-130: confirmed order.


KH-29TE

X-59M ( KH-59M )

The photo from you previous posts are KH-29TE. While yes, the X-59M is KH-59ME. But guess what, that missile attached on a flanker, not Vietnamese SU-22.

 

[BoQ77]

Just for your comparison in close view. Because they looks similar.
Kh-59 would require datalink pod attached. That's what you found next.

 

[Deino]

YES, but You don't seem to know the difference. The Kh-59ME would probably be the only missile with a range long enough to attack but either You are showing us images of German Su-22 armed with Kh-58 or Flankers armed with Kh-29 ... so, again NO Kh-59ME on a Su-22 and even more not a Vietnamese one.

I think we all waste our time to even try to explain .. You simply don't want or cannot discuss.
I will end this discussion here and now.

Deino

 

[Akasa]

Why even bring up the topic of the Su-22 in the context of the 052D? An analysis of the two is redundant in the event of a realistic Sino-Vietnamese conflict.

 

[Brainsucker]

Why even bring up the topic of the Su-22 in the context of the 052D? An analysis of the two is redundant in the event of a realistic Sino-Vietnamese conflict.

Well, because it is the topic of this thread The topic is about 052D and SU-22. Blame the OP for that.

Just for your comparison in close view. Because they looks similar.
Kh-59 would require datalink pod attached. That's what you found next.

But we talk about SU-22, the Vietnamese SU-22, not SU-24M.
Why don't we end our discussion here? @gambit knows better about this, you can just ask everything to him. Hopefully, he's in good mood and can satisfy your necessity. I'm already tired debating with you, and seems Deino too.

 

[BoQ77]

YES, but You don't seem to know the difference. The Kh-59ME would probably be the only missile with a range long enough to attack but either You are showing us images of German Su-22 armed with Kh-58 or Flankers armed with Kh-29 ... so, again NO Kh-59ME on a Su-22 and even more not a Vietnamese one.

I think we all waste our time to even try to explain .. You simply don't want or cannot discuss.
I will end this discussion here and now.

Deino

@Deino: you don't know the history of that:
1. Vietnam bought used Su-22 from multiple sources ( Czech, Poland, Ukraine, Soviet Union ... ) not only one.
And after that all upgraded to Block M4
2. I posted Kh-29 with close view for that guy to compare the difference. So what's wrong?
It's very hard to find whatever you want in Vietnam archive, especially close view. Understand?

 

[Deino]

@Deino: you don't know the history of that:
1. Vietnam bought used Su-22 from multiple sources ( Czech, Poland, Ukraine, Soviet Union ... ) not only one.
And after that all upgraded to Block M4
2. I posted Kh-29 with close view for that guy to compare the difference. So what's wrong?

Finall: since they are not capable to use the Kh-59ME ... the Kh-25 shown on Your image is an AGM-65-class weapon and simply useless !

You really don't get it.

 

[BoQ77]

But we talk about SU-22,

But you can't realize the KH-59 on a Su-22 so I must find better view of Kh-29 and Kh-59 in other pictures for you

The Kh-59ME would probably be the only missile with a range long enough to attack

I didn't agree with you.
Beside Type 052D can't find Su-22 flying low within 60km.

 

[Deino]

O.k. ... I'm out now !

 

[BoQ77]

If a Type 052D was struck by Kh-58 / KH-31P onto its radar tower, what happen next? help me @gambit