PLA's Type 052D destroyers can beat Vietnam's Su-22s: report

[GS Zhou]

No. Don't let emotion and need for win by any price in discussion overwhelmed our mind. that leads to derail topic and insult others.

Why 052D but not 052C can stop Su-22, could you define the logic in the article?

Just tell me how could su22 find 052c or 052d? The small sized radar used by su22 means it is almost a blind bird in the modern war!

 

[BoQ77]

Just tell me how could su22 find 052c or 052d? The small sized radar used by su22 means it is almost a blind bird in the modern war!

Same to Mig-21 vs B-52. The pilot get the data from land based station.
Mig-21 even don't turn on its own radar before approached the target. But Mig-21 could shot down B-52 in night flight.

After upgraded Su-22M4 armed with Phazotron Komar

 

[GS Zhou]

Same to Mig-21 vs B-52. The pilot get the data from land based station.
Mig-21 even don't turn on its own radar before approached the target. But Mig-21 could shot down B-52 in night flight.

Vietnam won the war against US was because your country got the full backup support from your neighboring country: China. And the Soviet Union also leverages the road or railway systems of China to transport the stuff to Vietnam. There were so many MIG17/19/21 shot down by US. But so what? China and Soviet Union produced new fighters for Vietnam for free! Why? Because we were socialism brothers at that moment!

But in case a war happens with China in the future, where could you source the support? From Thailand, or Combodia? or Laos?

 

[chauism]

Same to Mig-21 vs B-52. The pilot get the data from land based station.
Mig-21 even don't turn on its own radar before approached the target. But Mig-21 could shot down B-52 in night flight.

After upgraded Su-22M4 armed with Phazotron Komar

Finding a big bomber like B-52 in the sky from a land based radar is one thing, finding a ship on open sea from a land based radar is a whole new ball game. It's the basic physics and geography knowledge that seems you are seriously lacking of.

As for the Phazotron upgrade, the capacity of Su-22 onboard radar is limited by its nose intake which seriously limits the diameter of antenna of whatever radar can be installed on Su-22

 

[BoQ77]

Vietnam won the war against US was because your country got the full backup support from your neighboring country: China. And the Soviet Union also leverages the road or railway systems of China to transport the stuff to Vietnam. There were so many MIG17/19/21 shot down by US. But so what? China and Soviet Union produced new fighters for Vietnam for free! Why? Because we were socialism brothers at that moment!

But in case a war happens with China in the future, where could you source the support? From Thailand, or Combodia? or Laos?

do I have to remind you about derailing the topic, again?
I don't promote war.
Just bring this to discuss about the technical specs and air/sea tactic

Finding a big bomber like B-52 in the sky from a land based radar is one thing, finding a ship on open sea from a land based radar is a whole new ball game. It's the basic physics and geography knowledge that seems you are seriously lacking of.

As for the Phazotron upgrade, the capacity of Su-22 onboard radar is limited by its nose intake which seriously limits the diameter of whatever radar can be installed on Su-22

And Su-30MK2 radar.
Remember, now the King of VAF is naval Su-30MK2, next Su-30SM, who control the sky.
Su-22 is fading due to the ageing, has limited capacity.

 

[chauism]

do I have to remind you about derailing the topic, again?
I don't promote war.
Just bring this to discuss about the technical specs and air/sea tactic



And Su-30MK2 radar.

Now you are talking, let's asume Su-30MK2 find the ship via its radar. The question is how much can it rally its data to su-22? Also to provide a fire solution to its weapon system for BVR attack from the fire control radar is totally different from just finding a target via search radar.

Also since you have mentioned Su-30MK, it is much more suitable for those kind of ASuW missions than Su-22, I don't understand why Su-22 is brought in here at all.

 

[GS Zhou]

do I have to remind you about derailing the topic, again?
I don't promote war.
Just bring this to discuss about the technical specs and air/sea tactic

It is nothing about derailing the topic. I just want to remind you the reality of the modern war: it is a system vs. system war. I guess you may be the fan of knight novel, because you are so indulged in the discussion of one piece of equipment vs. another piece of equipment.

You mentioned the ground-based radar stations, fine. But how could you guarantee the safety of the radar stations in war time?

You also mentioned Su30Mk2, very cool. But the original topic you brought here is Su22. Is it "derailing the topic"?
BTW, if your Su30 dares to open the radar on air, could you imagine how shine it will be if you view it from the radar screen of 052D or 052C?

P.S. how many Su30 you have? If you sent them to fight against the Chinese fleet, how you grantee the air defense safety of the North Vietnam? We could send J11/J10 from Hainan, from Guangdong, from Yunnan, from Guangxi to do a Hanoi tour

 

[BoQ77]

It is nothing about derailing the topic. I just want to remind you the reality of the modern war: it is a system vs. system war. I guess you may be the fan of knight novel, because you are so indulged in the discussion of one piece of equipment vs. another piece of equipment.

You mentioned the ground-based radar stations, fine. But how could you guarantee the safety of the radar stations in war time?

You also mentioned Su30Mk2, very cool. But the original topic you brought here is Su22. Is it "derailing the topic"?
BTW, if your Su30 dares to open the radar on air, could you imagine how shine it will be if you view it from the radar screen of 052D or 052C?

P.S. how many Su30 you have? If you sent them to fight against the Chinese fleet, how you grantee the air defense safety of the North Vietnam? We could send J11/J10 from Hainan, from Guangdong, from Yunnan, from Guangxi to do a Hanoi tour

I don't reply the derail questions. If you want, create another thread, for example "How Air defense system of Vietnam react" I will reply.
Radar station or air control is essential element of air tactic ( so it's not derail ), so I mentioned only Su-30 radar or landbased as supplement to limited range of Su-22 radar.

 

[GS Zhou]

Radar station is essential element of air tactic ( so it's not derail ),

Bombing the radar station of the enemies is also an essential element of air tactic. But you think this is derail?

Radar station is essential element of air tactic ( so it's not derail ), so I mentioned only Su-30 radar or landbased as supplement to limited range of Su-22 radar.

Fine. But do you have the data link to transmit the information to Su22? You have it? Or not have it? Obviously you don't have it. So it means the SU30 pilots need to send oral message to Su22 pilot: "hi dude, the Chinese ships are now at area A, xxx km away from you" "oh wait, they are changed the direction to area B" "sorry, they are now moving to area C ". That is the most inefficient way in the modern war. And wasting time in a war against China means suicide!

In addition, how could you guarantee the communication between Su30 and Su22 would not be disrupted or cut by China? We have already localized the Su27/30 series and we know how it works and where its weak point is.

 

[BoQ77]

Bombing the radar station of the enemies is also an essential element of air tactic. But you think this is derail?


Fine. But do you have the data link to transmit the information to Su22? You have it? Or not have it? Obviously you don't have it. So it means the SU30 pilots need to send oral message to Su22 pilot: "hi dude, the Chinese ships are now at area A, xxx km away from you" "oh wait, they are changed the direction to area B" "sorry, they are now moving to area C ". That is the most inefficient way in the modern war. And wasting time in a war against China means suicide!

In addition, how could you guarantee the communication between Su30 and Su22 would not be disrupted or cut by China? We have already localized the Su27/30 series and we know how it works and where its weak point is.

Do you know datalink pod? If radar station stand still, it's not too hard job. But they're mobility and it's not easy to track them.
The first anti-radiation missile is AGM-45 Shrike used for the first time during Vietnam War too. But with air domination, means only 5-10 km above, American can't destroy all of the NVN radars, now you should think twice about "bombing radar station". It's new to you but not new to Vietnam air defence.

 

[GS Zhou]

Do you know datalink pod? If radar station stand still, it's not too hard job. But they're mobility and it's not easy to track them.
The first anti-radiation missile is AGM-45 Shrike used for the first time during Vietnam War too. But with air domination, means only 5-10 km above, American can't destroy all of the NVN radars.

then you'd better prey your purchased datalink pod would not be interrupted or cut by China.

To bomb the mobility radar station would be difficult for Vietname, but not to China. Do you still remember the MH370 tragedy? In order to find it, China allocates almost 20 satellites above South China Sea for the search job. In case a war happens, how many satellites could China allocate? I don't know. But definitely more than 20. Given the size of Vietnam territory, a large target like radar station won't be too difficult to find.

American can't destroy all of the NVN radars.

yes, Americans cannot destroy all the radars. The key reason here is that China and Russia sent new radars to support Vietnam constantly! The more US bombed, the more new radars built and sent to Vietnam. But could you secure such supplies in a potential war in the future?

 

[BoQ77]

Do you still remember the MH370 tragedy? In order to find it, China allocates almost 20 satellites above South China Sea for the search job. In case a war happens, how many satellites could China allocate? I don't know. But definitely more than 20. Given the size of Vietnam territory, a large target like radar station won't be too difficult to find.

You forget the result of China search job "FOUND NOTHING"

yes, Americans cannot destroy all the radars. The key reason here is that China and Russia sent new radars to support Vietnam constantly! The more US bombed, the more new radars built and sent to Vietnam. But could you secure such supplies in a potential war in the future?

You tell a joke.
Think about "Linebacker II operation" lasts for 11 nights ( 18-28 Dec 1972 ). How long to get the new if all radars destroyed in first day?
If depend on supplement but not know how to protect current radar, it's a "Game over" after first night.

But we could protect our assets and shot down the most numerous B-52 in 26-Dec ( 8 Stratofortress B-52)

If big one always win over small one. There's no Vietnam today.

 

[GS Zhou]

You forget the result of China search job "FOUND NOTHING"



You tell a joke.
Think about "Linebacker II operation" lasts for 11 nights. How long to get the new if all radars destroyed in first day?
If depend on supplement but not know how to protect current radar, it's a "Game over"

Did US have that many satellites on top of Vietnam during the 1970s' war?
Did it have the cruise missiles like DF10 at that time? or the basaltic missiles like DF11/15/16/21?
Did it have the killer drone like CH5?
Did it have the advanced data link to coordinate all the forces on the battelfield?
Did it have the long-distance/guided rocket system at that time?

Just last week, China successfully launched the typhoon detecting rocket targeting at the typhone Mujigae. The rocket throws multiple detect devices at different points of the typhone. Don't you feel this is a far more difficult job than bombing the radar station?

 

[BoQ77]

Did US have that many satellites on top of Vietnam during the 1970s' war?
Did it have the cruise missiles like DF10 at that time? or the basaltic missiles like DF11/15/16/21?
Did it have the killer drone like CH5?
Did it have the advanced data link to coordinate all the forces on the battelfield?
Did it have the long-distance/guided rocket system at that time?

Just last week, China successfully launched the typhoon detecting rocket targeting at the typhone Mujigae. The rocket throws multiple detect devices at different points of the typhone. Don't you feel this is a far more difficult job than bombing the radar station?

Don't derail too much please.
Focus on how to track enemy mobile radar system, ok?
do you think Vietnam is newbie of electronic warfare while they faced it since 1960s ?

 

[chauism]

Do you know datalink pod? .

Oh, please do tell what kind of datalink pod is that, because as far as I know if Su-22 is to carry and fire Kh-59 it already needs to carry APK-9 datalink pod just for the weapon alone. So are you saying it is carrying another datalink pod to communicate with other Su-30, if it is, what kind of data pod is that?