Pakistan's New F-16 Block 52 vs SU 30 MKI.

[Stephen Cohen]

Since you are apparently a civvie just like the rest of us, can it then be assumed that you too haven't seen the full' strengths' and are merely talking out of your ***.

Well you are feel assume what you want

But dont civvies have friends and relatives
who can give BROAD hints WITHOUT disclosing state secrets

@Icarus

Deception is necessary ; because
the enemies try to find out your real strength

They send spies who try to bribe the officials ie the traitors ( the chinks in our armour )

BOTH your spies and our traitors are found out sooner or later
This is why deception is necessary

 

[Armstrong]

The Mki has a 50km lock advantage over the F-16 which as anyone will tell you, boils down to split seconds in the air. Its not a huge margin to count on, ultimately, it boils down to a number of factors because the MKI and BLK52 are pretty evenly matched. Your argument on the SU-27 design bases heavily on the assumption that there will be a dog fight, the chances of that happening are next to impossible in today's world.
So, if a BLK52 and MKI square off, it will depend heavily on who has the home advantage and who has more of their birds up in the air.

Seeing that our respective airbases are in spitting distance of the border areas; it probably won't matter much !

It may, however, matter greatly when it comes to naval engagements !

Sethi Sahib aaaap tax deteiii nahin hain abbb kiyaa Naval modernization ka saraa burden mein aapneiii tax-returns file kar keh uthaaooon ?

 

[salwararmy]

Seeing that our respective airbases are in spitting distance of the border areas; it probably won't matter much !

It may, however, matter greatly when it comes to naval engagements !

Sethi Sahib aaaap tax deteiii nahin hain abbb kiyaa Naval modernization ka saraa burden mein aapneiii tax-returns file kar keh uthaaooon ?

you are correct. No Fighter not even a 10 Generation Fighter can match F-16.
SU30 MKI is worst plane ever & that is braided stars by low quality Indian Pilots. Indian Pilots never sleep because of fear.
I concur.

 

[Armstrong]

you are correct. No Fighter not even a 10 Generation Fighter can match F-16.
SU30 MKI is worst plane ever & that is braided stars by low quality Indian Pilots. Indian Pilots never sleep because of fear.
I concur.

Auntie Jee itnaa ghussaaa aur sarcasm ?

 

[salwararmy]

'British Typhoons whacked India's Sukhois in joint exercises' | TwoCircles.net

Correct...just an extract from the Link you have posted:

"Well, they lost," was Stephen Dalton's response when IANS asked how the Russia-developed India-manufactured Su-30MKI air superiority jets performed against the Royal Air Force's (RAF) Typhoons when they matched their wits during the joint exercises in recent years.
However, he was quick to add that the two aircraft are different in technologies, and that Typhoons are next generation, and hence there is no comparison"

Auntie Jee itnaa ghussaaa aur sarcasm ?

Nahin Mullah ji,, I agree totally with you. You see i even not posted any Smiley..Its not Sarcasm. I fully agree with you.

 

[Armstrong]

I did 15 seconds on my third attempt, but please elucidate how this fits into the argument?

I merely managed 3 seconds !

What exactly is this test supposed to establish ? Reflexes or something else ?

 

[Manticore]

So, what will be the RCS of a huge + canard + 12 missile su30 vs a 4 missiles f16? What effect will it have on the respective detection ranges?

 

[The Great One]

Yes but also consider the that the opposing side similar characteristics to boot and at super sonic speeds will overcome the lock time difference before the enemy birds turn back and release their missiles, afterwards its a game of dodging the BVRAMs whilst still trying to inch closer for more dependable engagement at about 100 to 70km distance.

You just said that the opposing side is going to be at a (massive) disadvantage in the 'First Look, First Shot, First Kill' department. Then what similar characteristics? At any rate, that (50km) is just a fictional number and all our internet fanboy analysis, where we so feverishly compare track range and made-up RCS values that we completely miss out on things such as that once you are EM active, your position is gone and you are vulnerable to missiles with HOJ capability or that even if your position is indeed gone or even if the Sukhoi can track stuff at 200km out, it doesn't have any missile with that range let alone one with that NEZ and etc. etc. After reading gambits and other pros posts, I feel stupid.

Yes the MKI can flat out and make a complete 180 practically in the same spot, but in an aerial engagement, that leaves it vulnerable to attack and thus a pilot will never try that in a combat situation, where movement means you're still alive and a moment still can end in disaster.

Vulnerable to attack? We are talking BVR or what.
Anyway you should have seen the thing. Jumping around like a little rabbit. It did die for a second after the stall but it didn't fall as Youtube Terry said in his Youtube video, just jack rabbited out of there.

I merely managed 3 seconds !

What exactly is this test supposed to establish ? Reflexes or something else ?

Its a game launched by the aviators to remind us that no matter what we do, we'll never be as awesome

 

[Storm Force]

F16/52.great war plane. No doubting.

But paf have one single sqn. Ie 18.only.

Thank god you guys are inducting thunders and not more block52,falcons.

Your mlu falcons are warn out Machines.

We dont. Worry about them too much.

Take a brand new su30mki over a second hand Jordanaian falcon anyday

 

[special]

I like your approach here -- the assumption being

- Su-30 is better than SU-27 which was developed to counter the F-15 which in turn is a more capable fighter then the F-16.

Now the reason that I say that I like your approach is because, PAF was amongst the first airforces in the world to have actually gotten simulated kills over the F-15's back in the late 70's (1978 to be precise and the exercise was Shahbaz 78, where we used our F-6 (Mig-19's) and Mirages to achieve some kills on the F-15's) -- and add to that many exercises with the RSAF where we have achieved many simulated kills against the F-15's. Even our non Mlu'd F-16's are far more capable then Mirages, F-6's (too bad they are not in service any more) or F-7's and recently we've known that JF-17 when it was first inducted did go up against our old falcons and "repeatedly beat them"

so following the same script that you did, you know how a defeats b and b defeats c, so A must be superior to C -- the conclusion looks somewhat like this

Since F-15 was defeated by our old mirages/F-6's which are inferior to F-16's which in turn were repeatedly beaten by the JF-17's , and since F-15's answer was the SU-27 by the Russians --- hence just like the MKI, the thunder is superior to the SU-27!!!!

There is a biological reference to such conclusions --- It's called a "wet dream"

Have a nice day

in training excercise cope india 04 indian mig 21 defeated f-16 and f-15.. so mig 21 is superior to f-16 and f-15.

you don't understand what i said.
read this articles written by some professionals, it will helps you to understand. and one more thing, china also uses su 30, but they didn't want any jf-17s. if you think that china just reject jf-17 over an inferior plan su 30. then i don't want to say anything to you
Sukhoi Flankers - The Shifting Balance of Regional Air Power

 

[Psychic]

Your mlu falcons are warn out Machines.

Our f-16 mlu's are upgraded to block 40 standards. They can fire aim-120 C5.

 

[special]

the argument has slowly shifted to the MKI whereas my original question was aimed at Stephen about how he feels that the Migs 21 and 29 along with Mirage, incapacitate the entire PAF.

indian air force will never send mig-21 to engage paf top end fighters in pakistan air space, it will be a combination of PAK FA(it will introduced in 2018), su 30 mki, and mig 29 then rafael and tajes will play a ground attack role. mig 21 may act as interceptor(migs are going to retair in 2017) which will fly within the indian air space.

 

[Erroroverload]

BLK 52 has slight edge over SU 30 MKI because SU 30 MKI when loaded has RCS of about 15m2 huge disadvantage,
while BLK 52 and our MLU'BLK 40 can fire aim-120, the only difference is quantity that IAF has,
now IAF is getting Rafale, a big difference between two air forces.

 

[Manticore]

Our f-16 mlu's are upgraded to block 40 standards. They can fire aim-120 C5.

its a customised upgrade and better than blk40
Falcon Star upgrade for the airframe life is done on all of them

PAF F-16 mlu specifications and 36 blk 52+ prospects

 

[Psychic]

its a customised upgrade and better than blk40
Falcon Star upgrade for the airframe life is done on all of them

PAF F-16 mlu specifications and 36 blk 52+ prospects

I just wanted to reply the person saying that mlu's are outdated.
Not an expert so I approximated the upgrades of our mlu's.