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Pakistan's New F-16 Block 52 vs SU 30 MKI.

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Dassault claims it sold 28 mirages to PAF...check the links i gave earlier...one of em was of dassault

Bro, may i suggest something??? Why don't you do us a BIG FAVOR and open a thread...There has been many threads in the past and they just go on and on...In the end Nothing comes out conclusive...Indian POV and Pakistan POV remains same....It would be great if you can share your links there...I promise the thread will have the potential to get you the award of maximum posts and views in a thread ...lol...

P.S : My suggestion would be to go slow...For example - Number of Kills vs a bigger topic like who won the Air War...

Lets leave this thread to MKI vs F16..what say?
 
not sure if its posted earlier....but after watching the interview of Hal chairman i got two links to combine and then give the conclusion from his speech...


India intends to integrate a variant of its Nirbhay long-range cruise missile on the Suhkoi Su-30MKI Flanker strike aircraft, following the weapon’s initial development in the ground-launch configuration.

The addition of the Nirbhay to the Flanker’s weapons inventory would give the platform a long-range—and potentially strategic—strike capability. While details on the Nirbhay program remain scant, Indian officials have suggested the weapon will have a range of 800-1,000 km. (500-620 mi.).

An air-launched derivative of the Nirbhay would be a candidate platform for the air force element of India’s strategic nuclear triad ambitions. Packaging of a warhead in the constrained space of a cruise-missile body is a key technical challenge. The current Indian air force nuclear weapon capability consists almost certainly only of free-fall weapons.

The Nirbhay project is being led by India’s Defense Research and Development Organization’s (DRDO) Hyderabad-based Advanced Systems Laboratory.

The overall design and aerodynamic study work has been completed, as has the design of the propulsion system. There are suggestions that a mock-up of the design could be displayed at the AeroIndia show in 2011. A transporter erector launch vehicle is already being developed for the ground-launched version of the cruise missile by the DRDO’s Pune-based Research and Development Establishment (Engineering).

The acquisition of a 1,000-km.-class cruise missile is part of New Delhi’s strategy to match and surpass systems being developed by Islamabad. Pakistan is working on a ground-launched cruise missile called the Babur, likely with substantial Chinese help, and is probably receiving support from South Africa in developing the Ra’ad air-launched weapon. The Babur was unveiled in 2005 and the shorter-range Ra’ad was announced in 2007. The service status of both weapons remains uncertain.

Development of the Nirbhay apparently began at least five years ago. It would be the third indigenous weapon to equip the Su-30MKI, joining the Brahmos supersonic cruise missile—a variant of the NPO Mashinostroenia 3M55 (SS-N-26)—and the Astra medium-range air-to-air missile. The Nirbhay would have three times the range of the Brahmos. The army is also acquiring a ground-launched land-attack version of the Brahmos alongside the system in development for the air force.

An air-launched variant of the subsonic Nirbhay “is in the initial stages,” says an Indian industry official. There are “plans for it, but not immediately,” he adds.

The Nirbhay likely adopts a conventional cruise missile configuration with some form of flip-out mid-body wing and cruciform tail surfaces. The turbofan engine most likely will be recessed in the airframe body, given the requirement that the weapon be canister-launch-capable.

It is not yet clear which turbojet India plans to use for the Nirbhay. It did strike a deal with Russia over the supply and in-country manufacture of the Saturn 36MT engine in 2006, though the extent to which this deal has been implemented is uncertain.

There are also suggestions that India’s development program has had some technical support from Israel.

Given the size of the Nirbhay—reports suggest it is 6 meters (19.6 ft.)—the Su-30MKI would likely carry one or two of the missiles. To maximize platform range, the aircraft could carry one weapon on a pylon in the tunnel between the two engine bays. This is the approach being taken with the Brahmos missile, which is now scheduled to begin initial launch trials from a test aircraft in 2011. If the aircraft were to carry two Nirbhays, one could fit under each inboard wing-station.

New Delhi has also yet to disclose what kinds of mid-course and terminal guidance the Nirbhay will use. India and Russia did, however, strike a deal this year allowing Indian access to the high-precision signal of Moscow’s Glonass satellite navigation system.

In terms of medium-range standoff weapons, the Indian air force’s Su-30MKI can carry the Russian Missile Corp. Kh-59M (AS-18 Kazoo). A conventional variant of the Nirbhay, with the requisite level of accuracy, would provide a long-range precision-strike complement to the Kh-59M.


Pilot production of the air-launched version of the India-Russia BrahMos missile has started in Russia in line with plans to fit it in the IAF's Su-30MKI fighter aircraft by 2012.

The first few missiles for factory tests have been manufactured at the Strela production association in the Orenburg Region, the Regnum news agency reported quoting regional government head Sergei Grachyov. Once the ground tests were completed, the plant would launch series production of the airborne missile, he said.

The 2.55-tonne BrahMos supersonic anti-ship missile has been modified, shedding 500 kg and getting a new ignition engine to fire the missile at high altitudes.

The Su-30MKI also required modifications to fit the missile under its belly and integrate it into the plane's fire control system. The Sukhoi Corporation is working to strengthen the wings so that two more missiles can be fitted in the flanks.

Flight tests

Flight tests of the air-launched BrahMos are expected next year, and the IAF plans to begin inducting the BrahMos-armed Su-30MKI in 2012. Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director of BrahMos Aerospace A.S. Pillai said earlier this month that 40 IAF Su-30MKI aircraft would be armed with BrahMos missiles.

Experts said the BrahMos-armed Su-30MKI would be a game changer in the Indian Ocean, giving the IAF a deeper strategic reach and an extra deadly punch. With a range of 290 km, the missile will allow the pilot to hit enemy vessels while staying well outside the reach of their air defences. Travelling at a top speed of Mach 2.8 barely 3-4 metres above the sea surface, the missile cannot be intercepted by any known weapon system in the world.

Russia's Irkut Corporation, which manufactures Sukhoi aircraft, counts on the air-launched BrahMos missile to increase the demand for Su-30 fighters in international markets.

“Initial studies suggest that we will be able to produce 250 more Su-30s armed with BrahMos missiles,” said Vladimir Sautov, vice-president for marketing.

The sea and ground-launch versions of BrahMos missiles have already been successfully tested and put into service by the Indian Army and Navy. So far, the missiles have been assembled at the Strela plant, and manufacturing facilities are also being set up in Thiruvananthapuram with Russian assistance.

BrahMos Aerospace, a joint venture between India and Russia, has started designing a hypersonic version of the BrahMos missile, BrahMos–II.







Mr.nayak said in an interview to " SANIK SANDESH" that after Aug 2010 the sukhoi's which will enter production will have strengthened hard points as well as the fire control system will be modified to have long range implications.he added that after 2012 <late> Bramhos as well as nirbhay cruise missile will be inducted in the Sukhoi's

He said this change will be done in the next 2-3 months under the guidance of russian team which arrived here last Monday with the new set of program source codes for mig-27 up gradation.
This comes as the latest claim of HAL and DRDo for the Nirbhay cruise missile when drdo is not even ready with the full developed design mock up of nirbhay....only a model was shown....
 
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Dassault claims it sold 28 mirages to PAF...check the links i gave earlier...one of em was of dassault

You are so thick! Dassault and PAF struck the deal in 1970 and Mirage V variants were suppose to be delivered in late 71 but due to war they were never delivered but next year! IAF is only calming Mirage-III variants not the variants which dassault is claiming to have delivered in 71! PAF lined up 22 Mirage-III and 1 in hanger while 1 crashed. Meaning Pathological lair indian claim of destroying something like 10 Mirage-III was easily debunked!


sorry mods.. kindly move all these posts in 65 71 air war thread.
 
Growler are you now comparing the MLU F16/A/B to be the equal of the
F16/52.

44 + 18 + 14 = 76 MOSTLU UPGRADED F16/A/B

Not in the league of a 230 + 40 optional = 270 su30mki

Outnumbered 3-1`

And ahead in tech
 
Growler are you now comparing the MLU F16/A/B to be the equal of the
F16/52.

44 + 18 + 14 = 76 MOSTLU UPGRADED F16/A/B

Not in the league of a 230 + 40 optional = 270 su30mki

Outnumbered 3-1`

And ahead in tech

u will have 270 mkis in 2020 in the mean time pakistan will also look some other alternatives as well.. 76 f 16's mlu are not the end.. we going to have improved j 10 as well.. but any waz when u will have ur
270 mki's i am sure we would also have some thing to deter ur mkis. dont underestimate paf :cheers:
 
u will have 270 mkis in 2020 in the mean time pakistan will also look some other alternatives as well.. 76 f 16's mlu are not the end.. we going to have improved j 10 as well.. but any waz when u will have ur
270 mki's i am sure we would also have some thing to deter ur mkis. dont underestimate paf :cheers:

It will be 270 MKI's by 2014-2015 as directed by MoD to HAL and the 40 being manufactured in Russia. By 2020 the 126 or 200 MRCA's will be inducted as well as the first few squadrons of the Pak-Fa.

What is the status of the J-10B? Any deals on weapons/ radar/ avionics finalised? Hell what does the aircraft even look like? Some members say it will be a J-10 with western avionics and radar whereas others say it will be completely new design?!!

There is also word that the PAF will finalise a MRCA after the Indians do. What are the options? Any idea about how much will they cost an already cash strapped country? No-one is underestimating the PAF. I'm sure they are aware of the problem but unfortunately cant do much to resolve it.
 
u will have 270 mkis in 2020 in the mean time pakistan will also look some other alternatives as well.. 76 f 16's mlu are not the end.. we going to have improved j 10 as well.. but any waz when u will have ur
270 mki's i am sure we would also have some thing to deter ur mkis. dont underestimate paf :cheers:

I Think it Finished before 2015..??:azn::hang2::toast_sign:
 
Growler are you now comparing the MLU F16/A/B to be the equal of the
F16/52.

44 + 18 + 14 = 76 MOSTLU UPGRADED F16/A/B

Not in the league of a 230 + 40 optional = 270 su30mki

Outnumbered 3-1`

And ahead in tech


outnumbered 3:1 no you are forgetting another factor into the equation which makes the odds 10:1 here see for yourself:




:rofl: sorry mods i posted this video in two threads but this thread is anyways a measuring contest so i had to add this link!! please let it stay so that everyone can have a laugh because this thread is going nowhere!! :pakistan:
 
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Growler are you now comparing the MLU F16/A/B to be the equal of the
F16/52.

44 + 18 + 14 = 76 MOSTLU UPGRADED F16/A/B

Not in the league of a 230 + 40 optional = 270 su30mki

Outnumbered 3-1`

And ahead in tech
its 76 F16{MLU+BL 52} against 117{66 MIG SMT + 51 MIRAAGE 2000(9)}
1st of all let them compete with this then we will talk about our SU30MKI
:coffee:
 
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its 76 F16{MLU+BL 52} against 117{66 MIG SMT + 51 MIRAAGE 2000(9)}
1st of all let them compete with this then we will talk about our SU30MKI
:coffee:

Good point although, but we really need to replace analog to digital(Samtel Display, etc) on Su-30 MKI. And our MiG-29 SMT (AS) & Mirage 2000 dash 9 (MR), cant beat hole F-16 Fleet, we accept the truth first.:cheers:
 
Good point although, but we really need to replace analog to digital(Samtel Display, etc) on Su-30 MKI. And our MiG-29 SMT (AS) & Mirage 2000 dash 9 (MR), cant beat hole F-16 Fleet, we accept the truth first.:cheers:

bro i think u r highly under estimating MIG 29smt (with israeli sub systems) and MIRAAGE 2000...........believe it or not ther present number is enough for 36 J10 {wen ever they will get it}+ 44 F 16mlu+ 18 f 16 bl 52{i don't think order of 14 f 16 is even confirm}

Now this is the real equation

66 MIG 29SMT(upgraded) confirm
+
51 MIRAAGE 2000(9) confirm
-----
117

V/S

44 F 16 mlu confirm
+18 f 16blk 52 confirm
+ 36 J 10{iske to engine ka hi kuch ata pta nhi hai} :confused:
+ 14 f16 {which bl NA TUM JANO NA HUMMM}:confused:
-------
62 confirm+ 50?


I m not including 45 MIG 29K here as they r the part of Indian Naval Air Arm but u can't deny their existance
 
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bro i think u r highly under estimating MIG 29smt (with israeli sub systems) and MIRAAGE 2000...........believe it or not ther present number is enough for 36 J10 {wen ever they will get it}+ 44 F 16mlu+ 18 f 16 bl 52{i don't think order of 14 f 16 is even confirm}

Now this is the real equation

66 MIG 29SMT(upgraded) confirm
+
51 MIRAAGE 2000(9) confirm
-----
117

V/S

44 F 16 mlu confirm
+18 f 16blk 52 confirm
+ 36 J 10{iske to engine ka hi kuch ata pta nhi hai} :confused:
+ 14 f16 {which bl NA TUM JANO NA HUMMM}:confused:
-------
62 confirm+ 50?


I m not including 45 MIG 29K here as they r the part of Indian Naval Air Arm but u can't deny their existance

14 more f 16's after the delivery of 18 f 16's dis year is confirmed a news thats another thing if usa back stab us on the other hand by the end of this year we would have 50+ f 16's and u cant ignore rose mirages capabilities and yes thunders these are enough to take care ur inventory of mig 29 and mirage 2000. the only headache is mki for which pakistan have to look for an alternative even 18 block 52 are too less against 100+ mkis
 
IAF has edge over PAF in numbers.I think BLK 52 and MLU's can give a tough time to SU30 MK, one on one the better pilot will win.
But hence if PAF will be defending force IAF will b on losing side.

but now IAF is getting Rafale, PAF has nothing to counter Rafale.
be realistic IAF is becoming a better force.

I will again the same thing

F 16 is a good plane but IAF is a FAR superior force

If you really want more facts here it is

IAF can defeat PAF ; EVEN without putting up a single SU 30 MKI in the battle

IAF can defeat PAF with its Mig 29 and Mirage 2000 and Mig 21 Bison

Just find out the real strength of IAF

yes iaf is superior but in numbers.
ha ha iaf can defeat PAF without a single su 30 mki , o come on don't b a fan boy, b realistic, BLK 52 and MLU's can beat the hell out of mig 29 and mirage 2000
do some reading on google.ha ha and have some beef as well.
 
1) IAF is "far superior" in numbers and at THIS time. With 150 BVR JFT's and 70 F-16's if you just take these, you risk of losing over 100 SU-30's......I can NEVER imagine India would take such a chance at this time, with a big giant Dragon on the other border. So because of that, your numbers even have to multiply. Now if you take JUST Pakistan specific squadrons in the next 2-3 years. Its not that bad. India could and will never try to put all the IAF to attack Pakistan. You might as well open your border's gates and put signs saying "welcome to China".

lol, at the time pak air force have 150 JF-17 toys and 70 f-16, indian air force will have 270 su 30mkis.
su 30 mkis are much superior in capability. SU 27, the basic model of the su 30 is developed to counter F-15, which is a heavy fighter with more capable than f-16. so your statement is just an imagination. your f-16 are no mach for su-30 and rafael jets. indian air force s technologically and numerically superior to PAF
 
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