Pakistan UAVs News & Discussions

[JamD]

There are some other points to correct in your post, however, this one took my attention the most:

The company is called Baykar Tech, not Bayraktar. That's the name of their series of drones, e.g. Bayraktar TB-2 or Bayraktar Akıncı.

I get why it might be confusing given how similar the names are to foreign people, but it's just the serial name of their drones.

IMO, Baykar has a serious name branding issue right there.

thanks for the information.

 

[farooqbhai007]

PAF TB2 flying near Multan ,

https://twitter.com/x/status/1485548072323145730

Confirms the news AEROSINT from twitter said few weeks ago and later verified by panzerkiel.

The Akinci is also here as well

@PanzerKiel @JamD @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

I am hopeful that our systems will get to this level of polish too

For this extensive use and feedback from military is required.

 

[Raja Porus]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1502648755996315655

 

[YurtDefence]

Something possibly interesting.

Looking at Shahpar-2 and TB-2, it is easy to see that these are UCAVs in the same class. However, the way they are supposed to "close the kill chain" is quite different and makes for an interesting case study in my opinion.

Shahpar-II
Shahpar-II carries Burq/AR-1, which is a 45 kg missile that is supposed to reach out to 8-10 km. The Shahpar-II carries two of these.

Interestingly, for the photoshoot and brochure the Shahpar-II is equipped with Zumr-1 not Zumr-2.
View attachment 819993
The Zumr-1 has a laser range finder but no laser designator. However, in the video where Shahpar-II launches Burqs we can see that Shahpar-II is actually equipped with a Zumr-II:
View attachment 819997
You can tell Zumr-1 and 2 apart by noting Zumr-2's larger size and blockier appearance. The Zumr-II does have a laser designator that can laze targets up to 20 km away
View attachment 819987

So the way these are probably meant to be used is that a Shahpar-II lazes its own targets and fires 2 missiles max at 10 km at it.



TB2
Now the primary weapon of the TB2 is the MAM-L, which is a 22kg glide munition. Since the MAM-L weighs half as much as a Burq, the TB-2 can carry FOUR MAM-L's:
View attachment 820005
The fascinating thing is that the max range on the MAM-L is given as 15 km.
View attachment 820007
This is probably achieved by flying the TB2 really high.

The TB2 also carries a designator that can look out to 25 km
View attachment 820006

So the way the TB2s are probably used is that one TB2 has the mission of flying far away and designate targets (and record video for propaganda purposes). As far as I can tell most videos of TB2 strikes seem to show missiles that come from directions different from the video recording pointing to the fact that a different TB2 is probably launching the weapons. Now the other TB2 flies as high and fast as possible and launches its MAM-L's. The MAM-L's rely on the TB-2s energy (speed and altitude) to achieve their max range. If push comes to shove the TB-2 tasked with designating targets could also carry 4 MAM-Ls.

Comparison
So with very similar aircraft, the Shahpar-II and TB2 complete their mission very differently. The Shahpar-II carries two heavy missiles that use their rocket's energy to get to target. The Shahpar-II seems to have an engagement range smaller than that of TB2 by 5-7 km - this distance can mean the difference between survival and destruction. The TB2 uses the energy provided by the TB2 aircraft to get presumably double the amount of explosives (4 MAM-L's vs 2 Burq) to a target further away. It would appear that the TB2 way to do the mission is more efficient because it appears to give a longer range. This also explains Bayraktar's quest to fly the TB2 higher and higher (27k feet according to a Turkish member here). The TB2 and MAM-L are systems designed and optimized for each other. It is fascinating to try to understand design choices.

I am hopeful that our systems will get to this level of polish too.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @kursed this post may answer some of the questions that you guys have asked over time.

The only way to optimise a UCAV to almost perfection is flight hours, TB2 has recorded 400,000 hours of flight that's equivalent to 45 years. There have been very few instances where one has malfunctioned, in part due to the triple redundancy Baykar insists on in it's UCAVs.

Could Pakistan get there, yes. But not without huge investments and actual usage of them, TB2 has been in multiple theatres of war, that is insurmountable knowledge gained!

---

Also to add, there is another munition that doesn't get much lime-light. Tubitak-SAGE BOZOK, which has multi-launch multiple target engagement with it's integrated INS/IMU/GNS.

https://www.sage.tubitak.gov.tr/tr/urunler/bozok

 

[ghazi52]

;;;;;

https://twitter.com/x/status/1505545101761662978

;;;

 

[Raja Porus]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1506651266755223555

 

[YurtDefence]

The only way to optimise a UCAV to almost perfection is flight hours, TB2 has recorded 400,000 hours of flight that's equivalent to 45 years. There have been very few instances where one has malfunctioned, in part due to the triple redundancy Baykar insists on in it's UCAVs.

Could Pakistan get there, yes. But not without huge investments and actual usage of them, TB2 has been in multiple theatres of war, that is insurmountable knowledge gained!

---

Also to add, there is another munition that doesn't get much lime-light. Tubitak-SAGE BOZOK, which has multi-launch multiple target engagement with it's integrated INS/IMU/GNS.

https://www.sage.tubitak.gov.tr/tr/urunler/bozok

To further add, TB2 has been continuously updated from software to hardware from lessons learned in battles and wars fought.

• 2016 Operation Euphrates Shield |Syria
• 2018 Operation Olive Branch | Syria
• 2019 Operation Peace Spring | Syria
• 2020 Operation Paths to Victory | Libya
• 2020 Karabakh war | Azerbaijan
• 2020 Operation Claw | Iraq
• 2021 Tigray War | Ethiopia
• 2022 Ukraine-Russia War | Ukraine

The only other country that has such significant experience is the United States, however their drones have not been used in wars with heavy air-defence systems, nor peer-to-peer adversaries.

 

[shofotolavski]

1、Pakistan should probably convert old retired planes into drones like China did for radar suppression and more dangerous low-altitude raid missions
2、
Some drones can be modified to take off with a rocket boost and attack the opponent's airfield and radar after the airfield is destroyed.
Even old planes can complete a one-way mission with a large range
If the mission is close range raid, it can be designed as a return type
3、You can add some devices that simulate the signal characteristics of other aircraft to confuse the other party's radar,
Perform a suicide attack or rocket attack while the enemy radar is on

 

[Riz]

To further add, TB2 has been continuously updated from software to hardware from lessons learned in battles and wars fought.

• 2016 Operation Euphrates Shield |Syria
• 2018 Operation Olive Branch | Syria
• 2019 Operation Peace Spring | Syria
• 2020 Operation Paths to Victory | Libya
• 2020 Karabakh war | Azerbaijan
• 2020 Operation Claw | Iraq
• 2021 Tigray War | Ethiopia
• 2022 Ukraine-Russia War | Ukraine

The only other country that has such significant experience is the United States, however their drones have not been used in wars with heavy air-defence systems, nor peer-to-peer adversaries.

Few Of ours ……… already under trial in one gulf country, just wait for good news …nuff said

 

[shofotolavski]

China made some j-6 modified drones
Pakistan may be able to use civilian standard accessories to convert some old aircraft to use as drones, the cost is not high, and the flight speed is very fast

Few Of ours ……… already under trial in one gulf country, just wait for good news …nuff said

 

[vizier]

1、Pakistan should probably convert old retired planes into drones like China did for radar suppression and more dangerous low-altitude raid missions
2、
Some drones can be modified to take off with a rocket boost and attack the opponent's airfield and radar after the airfield is destroyed.
Even old planes can complete a one-way mission with a large range
If the mission is close range raid, it can be designed as a return type
3、You can add some devices that simulate the signal characteristics of other aircraft to confuse the other party's radar,
Perform a suicide attack or rocket attack while the enemy radar is on
View attachment 827210

ZEL launch is a good tactic removing runway dependence. Additionally the landing gear of these uavs can be turned to landing skids. It will need refurbishment. The skids can be retractable or can be mounted to the body but if this is achieved the plane can even land on ground-grass. It will be a reusable drone interceptor at least would work well against older planes - drone swarms.

Landing on grass and ZEL-rocket launch would remove runway denial options.


There are some cold war designd that used trolley launch-landing skids scheme before vtol aircraft emerged which are expensive and have design tradeoffs. Front nose intake or canard side intake or above intake engine options would have less problems with debris on runway. Side intake example below has no problems it seems. Maybe some open-close engine inlet can be made while landing-taking off to block foreign object debris like Mig-29 has.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WeirdWings/comments/dlx8yb

Sud-Est S.E.5003 Baroudeur

Retractable landing skids:

Trolley-dolly launch

Landing on grass runway:

 

[Abid123]

Pakistan needs to invest in suicide drones like Iran has.

 

[SQ8]

Pakistan needs to invest in suicide drones like Iran has.

Might help against the onslaught of Bipedal land based ones.

 

[PanzerKiel]