Pakistan UAVs News & Discussions

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If they're promoting it for export, then they've likely capped the range at 300 km to honour the MTCR. The domestic-use version could exceed that if they're using SATCOM. @JamD @Bilal.

 

[JamD]

If they're promoting it for export, then they've likely capped the range at 300 km to honour the MTCR. The domestic-use version could exceed that if they're using SATCOM. @JamD @Bilal.

Good point. I wonder what the design changes were then. I think it's not as big as I was expecting it to be. The endurance is quite low (not in the range of 24hrs).

 

[Bilal.]

If they're promoting it for export, then they've likely capped the range at 300 km to honour the MTCR. The domestic-use version could exceed that if they're using SATCOM. @JamD @Bilal.

That makes sense. After all the picture is from a defence expo.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Good point. I wonder what the design changes were then. I think it's not as big as I was expecting it to be. The endurance is quite low (not in the range of 24hrs).

I think they made some changes to the fuselage. We all see the area for the SATCOM, but I wonder if they did more work across the whole system (but sticking to the same general design template). So changes can include different aerostructure materials, new internals, etc?

 

[GriffinsRule]

If they're promoting it for export, then they've likely capped the range at 300 km to honour the MTCR. The domestic-use version could exceed that if they're using SATCOM. @JamD @Bilal.

Are you sure MTCR applies to UAVs? Because Americans and Chinese both have sold drones w long ranges and endurance to many countries already. I don't think it applies.

 

[ziaulislam]

"There have been some design changes": I am speculating here that this version does not have the SATCOM (yet) maybe due to delays in the satellite program or mission requirements changing.



No. PAC has nothing to do with AWC programs like Shahpar. PAC's MALE is under Azm and a different program.

PAYLOAD?

 

[Bilal.]

Good point. I wonder what the design changes were then. I think it's not as big as I was expecting it to be. The endurance is quite low (not in the range of 24hrs).

If the are able to increase the endurance and develop MAM type PGMs then this can be our equivalent to Turkish TB2/TB3.

 

[JamD]

I think they made some changes to the fuselage. We all see the area for the SATCOM, but I wonder if they did more work across the whole system (but sticking to the same general design template). So changes can include different aerostructure materials, new internals, etc?

View attachment 722995

No I think you misunderstood. Shahpar-II is definitely very different from Shahpar-I. What I was quoting was a comment that said that Shahpar-II's design had undergone a change from when it was initially envisioned. This was nothing to do with Shahpar-I

PAYLOAD?

No idea. Perhaps the same as Burraq, the Barq.

If the are able to increase the endurance and develop MAM type PGMs then this can be our equivalent to Turkish TB2/TB3.

Perhaps.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Now, MAM-L comes with 15km range!!! Imagine what'll happen to the Indian armored/infantry/artillery etc. 15kms off the border if Pak uses this staff in abundance coupled with KORAL-class EW to jam the entire Hindutva?!?? Cold Start!!!!! Cow-dung from my village bull.....

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Are you sure MTCR applies to UAVs? Because Americans and Chinese both have sold drones w long ranges and endurance to many countries already. I don't think it applies.

It matters to us because we're trying to make a case to enter bodies like WA, MTCR, etc and get NESCOM et. al off the US sanction list.

 

[mingle]

Can someone identify this UAV shown in GIDS section for IDEX 2021 show guide?


View attachment 722938
@HRK @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD

Luna UAV from Germany

 

[Bilal.]

Luna UAV from Germany

It’s Shahpar II. Identified in the later posts.

 

[JamD]

View attachment 694942

Some rough pixel counting shows that AZM MALE's wing is 6.5 m long. So it roughly has a 13.5-14 m wingspan.

For reference:
Falco wingspan: 7.3 m
Burraq wingspan: 8 m (Pakistan's largest public UAV)
Shahpar wingspan: 6.6 m

This 13.5-14 m wingspan puts it in the class of Wing Loong I. Maybe Azm's MALE is just a license production/modification of the Wing Loong I, Who knows?

View attachment 722987
@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal. @HRK

Assuming PAC's MALE will have roughly the same specs as WL-1 (which is reasonable since UAVs with similar designs usually have similar specs simply due to physics and the basically common ceiling on tech like engines) we can make an important distinction with Shahpar II.

	Azm MALE	Shahpar-II
Endurance	20 hrs	14 hrs
Ceiling	16,000 ft	20,000 ft

Using the above stats and assuming some reasonable numbers for wing area and drag coefficient one can safely conclude that Shahpar-II will cruise at a much higher speed than the Azm MALE.

	Azm MALE	Shahpar-II
Max Endurance Cruise Speed	75 kts	90 kts

Interestingly, the Shahpar-II does "look faster" lol, but in this case I think the numbers back this claim.

More speculation:
The two MALE UCAV's will fulfill slightly different missions. Azm MALE will primarily rely on time-on-station, whereas Shahpar-II will primarily rely quickly reaching the target area but perhaps not having the staying power. That is Shahpar-II is geared more towards strike than Azm MALE. Of course this is all speculation and could be absolutely wrong. Just some educated guessing.

What I can say is that it is good that we have clearly distinct designs/programs that appear to be best for different missions rather than just having a bunch of predator/reaper looking planes basically doing the same thing and being redundant.

 

[JamD]

View attachment 722987
@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal. @HRK

Also there are clear signs of maturity of aerodynamic design. There are signs of aerodynamic optimization: Notice the 737-Max style main-wing tips (vertical stabilizers) and the 787 style canard wing-tips. This isn't just a scaled up Shahpar, but a scaled-up and refined Shahpar.

 

[Bilal.]

Assuming PAC's MALE will have roughly the same specs as WL-1 (which is reasonable since UAVs with similar designs usually have similar specs simply due to physics and the basically common ceiling on tech like engines) we can make an important distinction with Shahpar II.

	Azm MALE	Shahpar-II
Endurance	20 hrs	14 hrs
Ceiling	16,000 ft	20,000 ft

Using the above stats and assuming some reasonable numbers for wing area and drag coefficient one can safely conclude that Shahpar-II will cruise at a much higher speed than the Azm MALE.

	Azm MALE	Shahpar-II
Max Endurance Cruise Speed	75 kts	90 kts

Interestingly, the Shahpar-II does "look faster" lol, but in this case I think the numbers back this claim.

More speculation:
The two MALE UCAV's will fulfill slightly different missions. Azm MALE will primarily rely on time-on-station, whereas Shahpar-II will primarily rely quickly reaching the target area but perhaps not having the staying power. That is Shahpar-II is geared more towards strike than Azm MALE. Of course this is all speculation and could be absolutely wrong. Just some educated guessing.

What I can say is that it is good that we have clearly distinct designs/programs that appear to be best for different missions rather than just having a bunch of predator/reaper looking planes basically doing the same thing and being redundant.

Still, I have always noticed that our UAVs lack endurance compared to similar offerings from other countries. We probably even use same power plants but still.