Pakistan to buy six Type 041 Yuan-class diesel-electric submarines from China

[tarrar]

Pakistan navy is very weak & a lot needs to be done for the Navy.

 

[IND151]

Off Topic: Is Pak panning to equip its news subs with naval version of babur?

However, some experts say that the submarines will be S20s, the export version of the Type 041. The only difference between the Type 041 and the S20 is that the latter does not have the former's air-independent propulsion syste

AIP is necessary for any modern conventional sub.

I believe PN will try to buy AIP from other sources.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Bossman, post: 5529156, member: 29758"]and your source is, Tom Clancey?

Tom Clancy is dead, you should watch more News...

Western submarine Technologies are ahead in all Areas that is why Pakistan's preference was either German or French submarines, conventional submarines China is making I believe personally Pakistan is giving them alot of information from whatever they've learned from Agosta 90B that's a good amount of contribution and Chinese do appreciate it. There is one more thing Pakistan acted arrogantly just because you've hurt french on all occasions you hurt yourselves too we could have built with help of france next generation Agosta 90 similar to U209 Dolphin.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Exactly all such news are baseless, Pakistan will only buy Subs that are on par or advanced than U214 German sub those were something Pakistan was looking forward too. Second AIP is must and requirement is bigger than current A-90B. PN is looking to counter indian Navy up coming french subs and russian leased subs therefore PN is looking to buy something highly advanced...yes Pakistan is short on funds and the price would not be less than $2B.

This is happening almost everywhere. Thanks to the global recession.

However, This won't hurt Pakistan's Navy to the extent that it would undermine its strength.

Off Topic: Is Pak panning to equip its news subs with naval version of babur?



AIP is necessary for any modern conventional sub.

I believe PN will try to buy AIP from other sources.

During the 2007 negations with the Germans, the PN wanted to integrate Babur \ Hatf cruise missiles on the U-214 they intended to procure. However, Germany refused this, and Pakistan walked off the talks.

 

[IND151]

This is happening almost everywhere. Thanks to the global recession.

However, This won't hurt Pakistan's Navy to the extent that it would undermine its strength.



During the 2007 negations with the Germans, the PN wanted to integrate Babur \ Hatf cruise missiles on the U-214 they intended to procure. However, Germany refused this, and Pakistan walked off the talks.

So PN has same pans for Yuan? Chinese may not refuse if PN wants to integrate Babur with Yuan.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

So PN has same pans for Yuan? Chinese may not refuse if PN wants to integrate Babur with Yuan.

It's been 7 years since these talk took place. I think if the PN gives it another try, the Germans will be lured, considering the economic factor to its industry. Another advantage which the PN has in hand is Turkey, the Turks are now building their 6 U-214s, with 80% indigenous technologies in it.

The PN should review this option, and work on acquiring 3 nuclear submarines in cooperation with China.

 

[IND151]

It's been 7 years since these talk took place. I think if the PN gives it another try, the Germans will be lured, considering the economic factor to its industry. Another advantage which the PN has in hand is Turkey, the Turks are now building their 6 U-214s, with 80% indigenous technologies in it.

The PN should review this option, and work on acquiring 3 nuclear submarines in cooperation with China.

Thanks for information.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Thanks for information.

Pleasure.

India's navy is developing on a fast basis, probably second to China.

 

[HRK]

It's been 7 years since these talk took place. I think if the PN gives it another try, the Germans will be lured, considering the economic factor to its industry. Another advantage which the PN has in hand is Turkey, the Turks are now building their 6 U-214s, with 80% indigenous technologies in it.

The PN should review this option, and work on acquiring 3 nuclear submarines in cooperation with China.

In case of Germany or France finance is the issue, but in case of China we may have the option of soft financing .....

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

In case of Germany or France finance is the issue, but in case of China we may have the option of soft financing .....

This won't prevent Pakistan from acquiring what comes at its highest priority. Take the SAAB AWACS as an example.

 

[Luftwaffe]

It's been 7 years since these talk took place. I think if the PN gives it another try, the Germans will be lured, considering the economic factor to its industry. Another advantage which the PN has in hand is Turkey, the Turks are now building their 6 U-214s, with 80% indigenous technologies in it.

The PN should review this option, and work on acquiring 3 nuclear submarines in cooperation with China.

I highly doubt if Germans can hurt themselves by rejecting tanks sales to KSA and losing billions of dollars for israel than Pakistan is nobody. It is better Pakistan collect funds from where-ever and invest in Chinese submarines and contribute by providing information and knowledge learnt from Agosta A-90B...everything is fair! but I would really like Pakistan to go to french and ask them for a next generation A-90s a mix of other latest technologies to make it a heavy weight monster like U209 Dolphin larger and better variant as I keep on repeating.

 

[HRK]

This won't prevent Pakistan from acquiring what comes at its highest priority. Take the SAAB AWACS as an example.

those were the different days ... unfortunately, but it is the reality ....

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

I highly doubt if Germans can hurt themselves by rejecting tanks sales to KSA and losing billions of dollars for israel than Pakistan is nobody. It is better Pakistan collect funds from where-ever and invest in Chinese submarines and contribute by providing information and knowledge learnt from Agosta A-90B...everything is fair! but I would really like Pakistan to go to french and ask them for a next generation A-90s a mix of other latest technologies to make it a heavy weight monster like U209 Dolphin larger and better variant as I keep on repeating.

We never took the Germans' arms procurement proposals seriously. Most of politicians, military experts agree on that. KSA can't do business with unreliable partners, at all cost.

I totally disagree with you on " Pakistan " is no body. I believe that customers are kings. Any German arms sale will benefit Germany.

Pakistan may also examine the yet-to-be-revealed France's Marlin class submarine - which is a further development of the Scorpion class submarine -

The PN can come up with a state-of-the-art submarine, which can be superior to the Dolphin class.

If the PN has a plan to introduce nuclear submarines, they should work hand in hand with the Chinese.

those were the different days ... unfortunately, but it is the reality ....

I disagree. I respect your opinion though.

 

[Luftwaffe]

We never took the Germans' arms procurement proposals seriously. Most of politicians, military experts agree on that. KSA can't do business with unreliable partners, at all cost.

I totally disagree with you on " Pakistan " is no body. I believe that customers are kings. Any German arms sale will benefit Germany.

Pakistan may also examine the yet-to-be-revealed France's Marlin class submarine - which is a further development of the Scorpion class submarine -

The PN can come up with a state-of-the-art submarine, which can be superior to the Dolphin class.

If the PN has a plan to introduce nuclear submarines, they should work hand in hand with the Chinese.

I disagree. I respect your opinion though.

I'm looking at this matter from a different perspective, Germans don't want to sell equipment because it could potentially be used against even remotely israel...this peace peace is BS why not shut down weapons development entirely if they love peace so much double standards, I explained it previously Germans sold Dolphin class to israel which are very lethal conventional submarines despite israel human rights violations on massive scale for the past 45+ years, it is not only about funds but also about special interests they see Pakistan wrongly as hostile.

My notion Pakistan is nobody to them was from the point if they can reject KSA's off of billions of dollars of big deals than rejecting a billion or lil above is no big deal for them. That is the problem that German opposition is hurting themselves and losing benefits to their economy. Last I heard about Merlin Class was in early 2000s I don't think such a program is going to materialize but I think a next generation Agosta is feasible a stronger bigger hull with technologies from scorpion and other subs into it can make it a potentially great diesel electric submarine. In order to counter hindustan we need to have atleast better conventional submarines it makes sense to further develop A-90 [B/C] instead of letting the Agosta Class die.

 

[cw2005]

S20 is an export only item. Like most of China's export military items, S20 is modular designed. The buyer could integrate whatever they could get from the market into S20. AIP, Sonar, Weapons, you name it. So, it is not a bad idea for PN to buy the basic sub with affordable price and limitless upgrade options in future. Just like the JF-17 fighthers. By doing so, PN get Technical Transfer and experience to build the thing. Who knows, looking at the pace China has been improving its military equipment, may be not far in the future, the best affordable option would come from China also. Some one in this forum said that JF-17 block III would have a Chinese AESA Rada.