Pakistan showing interest in J-16?

[Fawadqasim1]

I personally don't know. The S-400 reports came from an unnamed "high-level" Pakistani official via Sputnik News and RIA Novosti, which is an OK source. The J-16 news is from PakDef, so you'll have to make of it what you will. Personally, I would wait for an official PAF statement to the matter, which (if this is true) shouldn't be long.

sir it could be another russian ploy to sell goodies to india or to pressurise them to ink the already agreed ones and after a few months we will hear from russian sources that s400 is out of question for pakistan and we all know how gullible india is in this regard

Even top international analysts and politician's know this well when it comes to pakistan the indians become irrational.

 

[ziaulislam]

It is not about your relations
But the issue here is IPR -- Intellectual property rights violations

J11 / J 15 / J 16 all are based on design of FLANKERS

Add to it the Engine issue -- they are still powered by AL 31

Why would Russia sabotage the sale of SU 30 and SU 35 by allowing
China to export these clones

intellcural is not an issue, pakistan has recievd several copies from china inclduing helcopters, palnes, from f-7 to z-9 to current awacs plans.
engine is not an issue, clear reports that its a Chinese engine now

i doubt su 35 was a real thing, doesnt make sense to take such a big risk with russia

china flankers were too expensive to buy and operate, you can buy 3 thunders and operating cost is 3 times less for thunder

issue is cost, air force gets little left over after army takes it shares

 

[MastanKhan]

There is nothing russian in j16 other than airframe design that too was ussrs. Russia just inherited it but we won't go their, china and pakistan can persuade russia easily in this regard.


It will be a travesty because it's the only thread which makes sense vis a vis pafs near to mid term acquisition

@MastanKhan

@Windjammer I humbly request the aforementioned honourable senior members to comment.

Hi,

Thanks for the 'nudge'----we have discussed about a heavy strike for Paf for a long time---.

We know that it is a must---I will leave it at that---.

Just want some people to know---' beware of the ides of march '.

 

[mdcp]

When paf operated twin engines that time there were no bvr, no night capability, limited radar and that time close combat was happening now the dynamics have changed completly.

We need more capacity, more firepower, powerful radars so twin engines are needed.

We need to get rotton and defensive mentality out from paf and need bold steps now

We need best not cheap things, for budget they need to stop corruption and push govt for efficiency not compromise on defense

 

[MastanKhan]

There is nothing russian in j16 other than airframe design that too was ussrs. Russia just inherited it but we won't go their, china and pakistan can persuade russia easily in this regard.


It will be a travesty because it's the only thread which makes sense vis a vis pafs near to mid term acquisition

@MastanKhan

@Windjammer I humbly request the aforementioned honourable senior members to comment.

Hi,

Thanks for the 'nudge'----we have discussed about a heavy strike for Paf for a long time---.

We know that it is a must---I will leave it at that---.

Just want some people to know---' beware of the ides of march '.

 

[Trango Towers]

When paf operated twin engines that time there were no bvr, no night capability, limited radar and that time close combat was happening now the dynamics have changed completly.

We need more capacity, more firepower, powerful radars so twin engines are needed.

We need to get rotton and defensive mentality out from paf and need bold steps now

We need best not cheap things, for budget they need to stop corruption and push govt for efficiency not compromise on defense

Yes that's why PAF likes to get up close and personal. They use terrain to get eyeball to eyeball and are masters of dogfighting. This is well documented. You are correct most air forces are focusing on BVR and we should also but we must not forget dogfighting as most air forces are relying on missiles to their detriment. Vietnam proved US air force wrong

I think all these so called IBTEREST NEWS SHOULD STOP.
Creating bullshit threads with no substance is a waste of bandwidth and time. Unless you can state a reputable source there is no point dancing like Indians

 

[Syed_Adeel]

5th gen birds are not work horse due to several reasons, after they clear air space and air defence, heavy mutilrole birds will be needed to pond enemy troops, comand centers and Other key installations.

5th gen are spearhead but they will work with 4/4.5 gen birds to take on enemy.

Agreed but as PAF is short of funds and for medium role f16s are there then why we are going to acquire some what similar capability as of f16 ?
from where the funds will be arranges as PAF is pursuing for 5th gen at the same time ?
JF17 block 3 is also expected to delivery higher speed and more payload so we are going to have another light to medium fighter as well.

 

[The Accountant]

Chinese reverse engineered su27 they are famous for stealing...you can google...and pakistan at present cannot afford twin engine fighter jets there maintenance cost is too high for small pak defence budget


No its r

Pakistan cannot afford twin engine fighter jets its maintenance cost is too high..your defence budget should be increased to atleast 20 billion dollar

Are you out of your mind ,,, 20 billion dollar just for 3 to 4 squadrons of twin engines ... You must be smooking some very hard stuff ... there is a difference but of merely few million dollars in terms of running cost ...

Twin engine decision is not cost based (definitely cost is one of the consideration but not the main) ... Its doctrine based ... Pakistan never intended to strike deep down in the enemy territory but now with lot of heavies Pakistan needs to have aircraft with greater loiter time ... Pakistan has not finalized decision whether it will go for twin engine or single engine but nowadays all modern air superiority fighters (except for F35 and J10) are twin engine

Well J-16 will be a stop gap solution airplane until we acquire J-31 or any other 5th gen platform so it is not a replacement for the next gen platform.


What aerodynamic inefficiencies J-31 has ?..
And why it is not air-superiority airplane?


Yes, exactly...J-31 or any other 5th gen. will surely be acquired / developed.

Agreed ... but we need to acquire it in very short term as we have 3 years max before delivery and integration of Rafaels ... I personally think that if we have J31 available around 2020 then we should go directly for J31 as it will limit our numbers of aircraft to 3 and we can induct J31 in numbers too ... Meanwhile we will complete the inductionof J17 ... After that we can think of replaement of F16 post 2025 with more advance platform ...

 

[Basel]

Agreed but as PAF is short of funds and for medium role f16s are there then why we are going to acquire some what similar capability as of f16 ?
from where the funds will be arranges as PAF is pursuing for 5th gen at the same time ?
JF17 block 3 is also expected to delivery higher speed and more payload so we are going to have another light to medium fighter as well.

Managing funds is not PAF's responsibility, its governments job and they can do it by many ways, now for question why J-16 class bird is needed? There are many reasons why its needed in current and future environment, one is that PN need cover far from our sea borders if they want to take on IN to avoid blocake in open seas, two PN's MPAs specially P-3 need long duration escort to go after enemy which no current bird in PAF can provide, three PAF need bird with big fire power and long on station time to have better CAP capabilities with low number of birds (like 40) all over Pakistan allowing area defence capability, four it can allow long range and long duration escort to assets like AWACS, Transport and other assets, five it can work as mini armed AWACS to help other assets take on enemy, six with new very long rang Air to air missile (AWACS killer) it will be very potent threat to IAF AWACS pushing them far inside their territory and reducing their usefulness.

 

[The Accountant]

j31 is not air superiority fighter and certainly doesn't seem promising if they haven't solved the aerodynamic inefficiencies yet

How do you know there are aero dynamic inefficiencies ? There is hardly any reliable data available on J31 ...

F16 was basically a ground strike aircraft but Pakistanis used it in air superiority role ....

Its multirole hence can be used in any role depandant on need of the user ... For Pakistan it will be primarily for air superiority role or SEAD missions unless we aquire around 100 aircrafts which is difficult ...

 

[Khafee]

Managing funds is not PAF's responsibility, its governments job and they can do it by many ways, now for question why J-16 class bird is needed? There are many reasons why its needed in current and future environment, one is that PN need cover far from our sea borders if they want to take on IN to avoid blocake in open seas, two PN's MPAs specially P-3 need long duration escort to go after enemy which no current bird in PAF can provide, three PAF need bird with big fire power and long on station time to have better CAP capabilities with low number of birds (like 40) all over Pakistan allowing area defence capability, four it can allow long range and long duration escort to assets like AWACS, Transport and other assets, five it can work as mini armed AWACS to help other assets take on enemy, six with new very long rang Air to air missile (AWACS killer) it will be very potent threat to IAF AWACS pushing them far inside their territory and reducing their usefulness.

Please explain item in red.

Thank You

 

[CHI RULES]

Two things.
PAF has operated f6(Chinese mig 19) and A5(Heavily modified f6) which was twin eingine.
What is the logic behind selecting j16 when we are pursuing j31 or any other 5th gen?

Dear whether PAF goes for J16 or not is another matter but considering current scenario PAF is in dire need of a high tech jet which can effectively counter Indian Medium to heavy class fighter as well as may perform deep penetration missions. PAF F16 are good for air defense only can't be used for bombing missions further if compared to Rafael and new single engine jet India going to induct soon they will not be competitive enough. Further it is almost impossible to for Pak to get V upgrades for F16s both politically and cost wise.
PAF Mirages can only be used for secondary roles or as gap fillers can't penetrate effectively as the could do in the past as now Indian's have upgraded their Air defense from Low to high altitude SAMS supported by AESA/PESA latest radars.

JF17 block III will be good enough for Air defense roles but may face limitations regarding operational range and payloads.
J31 may also take further time for development and shall be available in small batches.

Further JF17 block III and J31 are medium to long term options meanwhile we require a capable fighter though in limited numbers currently to counter not only Indian threat but we may also face such threats form Afghan side also though rare chances. Further if Arab crises is expanded then Pak can't keep it away for long.

 

[Basel]

Please explain item in red.

Thank You

IN is expected to put blockade in open sea shipping lanes where they can do it with low threat from PN and later understand it, (I have discussed it with PN guys) that is why new upcoming subs are very important, but PN can't only rely on subs that is why they will deploy other assets too (ships, MPAs) and they want air cover for those, this has been conveyed to government few years back nothing new. Also PAF knows that KE supporting ops over sea will also need cover for longer duration.

 

[SilverStone]

 

[tarrar]

Its to early to say anything but Pakistan officials did say that "Pakistan so far has no interest in buying SU35", which means Pakistan is searching or is already in process of acquiring something big. Lets wait & see.

My personal opinion on J16 is, they are modified for radar jamming & communication intercepting purpose & Pakistan may not be thinking about this at the moment but surely the thought must be there in the back of their mind.

PAF is searching for or may have found an option to strengthen its airforce to maintain balance in the region. Surely Rafales & Saab Griphons are not on PAF list, but what they are searching for is so far unknown.