Pakistan seeks big powers’ help to settle Kashmir issue

[NHUDA]

Suit yourself. Utter UN when it's Kashmir but harbor a UN designated terrorist who openly organize rallies/public gatherings? World is fool, isn't it.

But we r a Terrooooorist State ... & u r the World Biggest Democrazy .... No !

Travel ban is and was always temporary as you may know. It is to avoid conspiracies hatched outside the nation whole the valley is still struggling for normalcy. Because it is the time to exploit the situation. Once everything is cool for sometime the ban would be lifted for sure. Every country would do that.

If the travel ban were permanent, one of the Kashmiri separatist leader wouldn't have married a woman of Pakistan origin.

Please read the context of which i wrote to let them allow the travel .... Kashmiris Haven't been allowed to represent themselves and hence they have not been able to do so !!!

well separatist Kashmiri leaders will have to write there identity as indian if they want passport umm actually if they do that there is nothing left to talk about

LOL ... CHoti Choti Khushiyan .... Just coz one is forced to Fill in the form in order to obtain a travel document ... doesnot necessarily end the issue in itself .... i m sure the people protesting in UK & USA (UN) against indian opression would have wrote as they are required to do so in order to obtain the Passport ... but does tht mean they cease the right to Find independence ... #logic

 

[Politico]

Meanwhile, Frenc Ambassador Martine Dorance on Friday welcomed Pakistan’s ratification of the Paris Agreement on climate change. ........

is that the only response which pakistan received ?

 

[CorporateAffairs]

Will so called "Bigg" powers also help liberate Tibet?

 

[Laozi]

is that the only response which pakistan received ?

So it seems

Pakistan needs to use Chinese influence to get what she wants rather than depending on Russia or U.S.

 

[NHUDA]

Sir-... when P0K going to have it's independent Foreign minister and Representation in UN ? after all it has a president and Prime minister and is recognized as a separate independent country by Pakistan.. isn't it ?

Well for that matter even Pakistan itself doesn't have a Foreign Minister

Pakistan ADMINISTERED Kashmir also known as Azad Jammu & Kashmir is a Temporary Setup (a self-governing state under Pakistani control) till the DISPUTED territorial status is solved, once the issue of Kashmir is solved (Assumingly via Referendum) , should the kashmiries want to be a Completely independence state the whole region should be declared independent ..

However practically to the best of my knowledge and understanding .. it is the Valley which want to change the Status Quo ... I doubt Jammu & ladakh would prefer Pakistan over india same as J&K and G&B would not want to opt out of Pakistan either !!!!

but as i said all discussions and debates aside .. unless All three parties will take stride toward resolution thr will be hardly any change at all and we all know status quo can not continue and in this regard something has to be done .. be it talking to each other or other countries !

 

[BABA AGHORI]

Well for that matter even Pakistan itself doesn't have a Foreign Minister

Pakistan ADMINISTERED Kashmir also known as Azad Jammu & Kashmir is a Temporary Setup (a self-governing state under Pakistani control) till the DISPUTED territorial status is solved, once the issue of Kashmir is solved (Assumingly via Referendum) , should the kashmiries want to be a Completely independence state the whole region should be declared independent ..

However practically to the best of my knowledge and understanding .. it is the Valley which want to change the Status Quo ... I doubt Jammu & ladakh would prefer Pakistan over india same as J&K and G&B would not want to opt out of Pakistan either !!!!

but as i said all discussions and debates aside .. unless All three parties will take stride toward resolution thr will be hardly any change at all and we all know status quo can not continue and in this regard something has to be done .. be it talking to each other or other countries !

Sir, if it is a temporary setup - Why Pakistan did not move forward to implement the UN resolution step 1 and 2 clearing the way for plebiscite for last 70 years.
It would have been the UN responsibility to get things done from India.
Can we say Pakistan actually lost it by not giving a chance to people for self determination due to it's own insecurities.?

 

[NHUDA]

Sir, if it is a temporary setup - Why Pakistan did not move forward to implement the UN resolution step 1 and 2 clearing the way for plebiscite for last 70 years.
It would have been the UN responsibility to get things done from India.
Can we say Pakistan actually lost it by not giving a chance to people for self determination due to it's own insecurities.?

No Sir, Pakistan is not insecure about territories under its current jurisdiction .. they are Tourist Hubs and have some highest Literacy and Possibly HDI Standards among Pakistan. ( i am a regular visitor of the region myself), it is more to do so expected retaliation from the other side of the border !

you may have already been informed about more knowledgeable contributors on this very forum the issue and reservations for UN Resolutions Implementations, IMO in practical terms thr is a highly remote chances of either of the armies rolling back given the fragility of trust on each other !

a more practical action would be to held a referendum under UN supervision, which again bring back to my First Post .. that How imo it can be achieved !

 

[Jackdaws]

Thr is No Irony in asking P5 to raise a matter .... IF (& its a Big IF) the Security Council indeed go ahead and consider the Kashmir a Humanitarian Crises, it can make way for referendum till UN peacekeeping intervention ..


But I do understand that in reality ... Russia is not Gonna Side with Pakistan over India & we can expect a veto from them ... and even US, UK, France business and commercial as well as defense interest will not allow such motion to even be on the Agenda let alone a vote ... !

But keep this in mind too the world is having itself re-aligned and We REALLY do not knwo how it would be in 25-30 years ... As for Kashmir My Sympathies are with them ... but for them the nly way to go is somehow seek independence .. Full independence from india AND Pakistan ... What Pakistan can do in this is raise and somehow make sure it solve the Palestine issue (a two state Solution) by strong lobbying in Islamic and other western countries .. the ground is avalaible .. need concrete effort ... i hope we can get 1947 UN Plan ... but even getting 1967 approved is first step towards that ...

Once paletine issue resolved .. it will increase Pakistan stature among the global countries alot & by that time we will be hopefully better in Golbal Economic Map .... and thn Pakistan Use it as a leverage to get Kashmir a TRUE Free state ..

the Referendum Pakistan could get india eventually agreed upon is for J&K Freedom or Indian rule & for G&B AJK - Freedom or Pakistan Rule ... I have first hand knowledge of G&B & AJK that they will vote for Pakistan ... and i believe Ladakh & Jammu will vote for India while Kashmir Valley will vote for Freedom ... and hence we will have a mutually acceptable .. somewhat face saving Chenab Formula !

I know indians will find this a very Optimistic view but if u have anything better (except maintaining status Quo), i m all ears !

Funny how you claim Pakistani support for Palestine. You do realize India was unwavering in its support for Palestine when you were busy importing Israeli weapons to use against the Soviets.

 

[Soumitra]

but as i said all discussions and debates aside .. unless All three parties will take stride toward resolution thr will be hardly any change at all and we all know status quo can not continue and in this regard something has to be done .. be it talking to each other or other countries !

Why do you think status quo cant continue. The Status Quo suits India very much

• The monetary cost to India is negligible.
• Apart from China no other major powers oppose India regarding Kashmir. Even China does not do very much
• With India's economic growth it is inconceivable that the world powers will support Pakistan over India and risk losing a big market
• Pakistan is in no position to militarily change the status quo
• The Kashmiri seperatists have not been able to do anything for the last 70 Years
• Just saying "Kashmir Banega Pakistan" will not change anything in the ground
• No Govt in India will ever agree to plebiscite as it will be a political suicide for it

Considering all these points your dream of changing the status quo will remain just a dream. If you have any counter to these points or have any points of your which point to a future change in status quo I would love to hear them

 

[NHUDA]

Funny how you claim Pakistani support for Palestine. You do realize India was unwavering in its support for Palestine when you were busy importing Israeli weapons to use against the Soviets.

If you have read my First Post on this thread, thr is a reason i wanted to go ahead & nations to sort out the Palestine issue first ..... Most Countries can be brought on-board on Two State Solution ... including india as it seems from your First Part of the statement ....

and Read yourself what u wrote ... Whats the issue in this .. Pakistan (& USA) were importing proliferated Soviet weapons from israel to be used by Mujaheedin .... and it is by No Means of similar magnitude of at one side Your "unwavering" support to Palestine while having a huge Military Interaction with israel !

At one side you "say" we are with palestine, while on other Shaking Hands with the Oppressor .... NICE , Some nerve you got !

Why do you think status quo cant continue. The Status Quo suits India very much

• The monetary cost to India is negligible.
• Apart from China no other major powers oppose India regarding Kashmir. Even China does not do very much
• With India's economic growth it is inconceivable that the world powers will support Pakistan over India and risk losing a big market
• Pakistan is in no position to militarily change the status quo
• The Kashmiri seperatists have not been able to do anything for the last 70 Years
• Just saying "Kashmir Banega Pakistan" will not change anything in the ground
• No Govt in India will ever agree to plebiscite as it will be a political suicide for it

Considering all these points your dream of changing the status quo will remain just a dream. If you have any counter to these points or have any points of your which point to a future change in status quo I would love to hear them

Please read my Very First comment .... I agree at this stage Right Now thr is no possibility Pakistan can skew the world opinion in its favor ... but i suggested (albeit a very Optimistic) way to change it !

 

[Soumitra]

Please read my Very First comment .... I agree at this stage Right Now thr is no possibility Pakistan can skew the world opinion in its favor ... but i suggested (albeit a very Optimistic) way to change it !

Even if you manage to solve palestine issue (and it is a big if because solving it is as complex as Kashmir) how is that going to be a template for Kashmir? there is no two state solution possible for kashmir

I hope you realise that both Israel and India have an upper hand in the Status Quo. It will be very difficult for anyone to dislodge them from there

 

[SQ8]

Usage of term other than Azad Kashmir in any form or filter bypass attempt is a violation of forum rules and will lead to immediate ban from thread accompanied by warning .

Please report any violations

 

[NHUDA]

Even if you manage to solve palestine issue (and it is a big if because solving it is as complex as Kashmir) how is that going to be a template for Kashmir? there is no two state solution possible for kashmir

I hope you realise that both Israel and India have an upper hand in the Status Quo. It will be very difficult for anyone to dislodge them from there

The Non resolution of Palestinian issue is a big hindrance in the solution of any other Occupation issues ... it is a big Mark on the UN .... however although inconsistently thr is a brewing sense that Palestine issue need to be addressed and sorted out (surely 9/11, Iran-Iraq, Afghanistan, Crimea, Yemen, and dozens of conflicts across the Globe take the attention away from them) ... hence i said that IF (indeed a Big IF) Pakistan can build a platform by consistent effort towards resolution of the Palestine issue (& by Resolution YES i meant a Two state Solution) ... which Israel always Boast & Bluff about ... If the countries call the Bluff Israel suddenly will find it on the back foot .... it will have to evacuate the Settlements and UN is very clear about it and so is most of European countries ... So yes Israel have an upper hand more so due to incompetency of its counterpart ... but if Planned & executed appropriately the issue can be solved ... !

And i Want Pakistan to play a part in it which it surely can given its status and relations across the globe ..... Once solved ... it will indeed help Pakistan Stature ...thn Pakistan can first Using significant CBMs Taking in confidence all the Parties involved domestically and internationally can raise the issue to Solve the Kashmir Problem ...

Again i m taking about a world after 30 years where new Alignments would've been made ... Palestine issue have been solved .. Israel Agreed to Live & let Live (For real) and USA back-down on its unconditional Support of israel ... We would have seen an end game of Iraq & syria ... And hoping South China Sea will be not that Blown Over every one .... Global Warming will be the main issue across the world, and hence Human Right issues resolution will be at fore front ....

I just shared my POV and u have every right to disagree with it ... call it even hogwash ... coz surely may be nothing happened or worst happen .... but thts just my POV that how he Kashmir can be solved .... by Consitent & Concrete Effort rather thn just raising it here & thr & every once in a year at UN !

Also Take note of My solution .. i didn't said Whole Kashmir comes to Pakistan .. all i said is to have a Refrendum under current setup One which india Pakistan could / should (with Two Options in the ballot) .... in IOK we can ask Freedom or Indian Govt. while of G&B & AJK we can say Freedom or Pakistan .... G&B & AJK will go with Pakistan ... Jammu & Ladakh will go for India while the Valley will vote for independence ....

Please See Scenario # 6 & u will know that all rest of the scenarios are not possible ... (status quo S#1 can be maintained but it is bleeding everyone)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/south_asia/03/kashmir_future/html/6.stm

 

[Soumitra]

Please See Scenario # 6 & u will know that all rest of the scenarios are not possible ... (status quo S#1 can be maintained but it is bleeding everyone)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/south_asia/03/kashmir_future/html/6.stm

India will be happy with Scenario 1 and 3.

Scenario 2 and 7 will be outrightly rejected as they give overwhelming victory to Pakistan

Scenario 4 not possible as Jammu and Ladakh dont want independence

Scenario 6 will be rejected as only Indian Controlled Kashmir Valley is given independence and Pakistani Controlled so called Azad Kashmir is under Pakistani control

Scenario 5 will be considered only if the situation changes drastically for the worst and there is no other possibility

 

[Musafir117]

Freakin we don't need all bigs just china is enough just Waite for the right time when India become a sandwich phir Kashmir hi nahi aur Kuch bhi de ga meanwhile raise up the voice in any international forums keep alive Kashmir issue.