Pakistan says soldier killed by Indian forces in Kashmir

[vijayjha]

please do...let the cycle go on and kill each soldiers...and see who's left with what.

dont forget 1 pakistani soldier = 100 indian soldier

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

lol 'bleed India with a thousand cuts' we dont need to do that now, indians are doing it themselve i can see some really good news from eastern part of india as far as IOK , we will take this war in you capital like yesterday

Hmmm....Shows your upbringing...

Btw..what about the war already going on there? I hope you Like the incident of yesterday blast in pakistan too which killed 25 people?

*genius*

Return the favour with interest.

Favour was returned by us and this was Interest only! Main payment is yet to be returned

 

[Mirza Jatt]

i am enjoying my stay on the forum............ and why dont u go and read your history....anyway before pointing your fingers at us can u tell why your leaders went to tashkund in 1965.

to meet your leaders who were already present there.....

 

[blackops]

Rip to the dead soldier once dead hes a guy of good not of any nation he becomes pure so respect the dead

@pak members dont talk about revenge it serves no good

 

[Irfan Baloch]

well said
leave the dead alone
and no pint in speculating about things that are not known
and yes revenge talk is lame its not a bollywood movie plot

 

[Norboo]

The thing is, the only causality here in the web are our bruised egos when one taunts the other but the consequences for these guys on either side are very serious and very real. Guys who spend time on the front and come in contact with the other side have great respect for each other. They don’t have times for the tantrums we post about each other.

How true! I agree 100%!

Peace with Pakistan at this moment doesn’t fit the Indian army’s strategic planning and they as true enemy want to keep Pakistan Forces under pressure while its engaged with an insurgency for over a decade now. Therefore we see that no matter what party forms the government in India, any solution, be it Kashmir, Siachin or sir-creek is impossible when any bilateral progress between the two movements is stalled because of the Indian Army’s opposition to any such move.

Unfortunately I disagree for the most part here. It is the Pakistan Army's/ISI's doctrine of bleeding India with a thousand cuts and keeping the pot boiling by infiltrating terrorists into Kashmir. The PA is fighting a proxy war with India using these militants as cannon fodder. That's the truth. You know it and so do we. But most prefer to live in their cocoon of denial.

So, it doesn't matter who forms the government in Pakistan, the PA/ISI will continue doing what it has been doing for the last more than two decades. You guys stop the infiltration and dismantle the 42 terrorist training camps, (most of which are in Pak administered Kashmir having the HQ of the Unified Jihad Council at Muzzafarabd), and then we can start talking peace and solve problems for mutual benefit.

Pakistan can't expect India to ink 'peace deals' with a gun pointed to its head.

 

[alpha loin]

to meet your leaders who were already present there.....

sir can u also tell me what happened there? was there any agreement or treaty signed? and what was its agenda?

 

[Don Jaguar]

You can claim even US to be disputed for the sake of it. Usually firing is done ONLY after warning shots. You're not telling me that the Pakistani soldiers couldn't hear the warning shots before entering our side could they?

The firing was done only when there were attempts to get into our territory or leak in militants.

What's the prove that warning shots were fired?

 

[mautkimaut]

Guys it’s a disputed territory and both armies are deployed there against each other. I have my self been to many fronts along the LoC and have fired at Indian positions where 4 Rajput was deployed back in 1999.
There is no point in complaining about this incident as the incidents of sniping and machine gun fire are not unheard.
A ceasefire is agreed but its not mandatory on either parties. They respect it as long as it suits them. Normally things get hot when either side tries to establish new bunkers or positions. Its starts with machine gun fire and mortars and can escalate to heavy machine run fire and in some occasions howitzers are also involved but only if there is some heavy and aggressive movement.

Back in 1999, I visited an injured caption in CHM who got hit by shrapnel from mortar shell while he was deployed with my cousin in Bhimber sector. Both his legs were amputated and he accepted it as a an eventuality. He had been doing the same to Indians when he as directing his fire on their positions.

The thing is, the only causality here in the web are our bruised egos when one taunts the other but the consequences for these guys on either side are very serious and very real. Guys who spend time on the front and come in contact with the other side have great respect for each other. They don’t have times for the tantrums we post about each other.

Peace with Pakistan at this moment doesn’t fit the Indian army’s strategic planning and they as true enemy want to keep Pakistan forces under pressure while its engaged with an insurgency for over a decade now. Therefore we see that no matter what party forms the government in India, any solution, be it Kashmir, Siachin or sir-creek is impossible when any bilateral progress between the two movements is stalled because of the Indian Army’s opposition to any such move.

So shortly, expect to see more incidents like these that can escalate to small skirmishes to even something bigger, followed by flagstaff meetings and temporary ceasefire and then back to the same incidents again.

And this is not the first time it has happened, Border Skirmishes have been part and parcel of LOC.

There had been times when Indian soldiers had died too so people should respect the fallen. and try to resolve the reasons which cause so many fine young men to give their lives

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Unfortunately I disagree for the most part here. It is the Pakistan Army's/ISI's doctrine of bleeding India with a thousand cuts and keeping the pot boiling by infiltrating terrorists into Kashmir.

as I responded before to post with the similar reaction I will say the same thing. I respect your opinion and can fully understand that the nationalism and patriotism comes in the way of making impartial judgements.

Nothing wrong with that and I admire that. but suffice to say that Indian RAW/ Army doctrine is also not very Pakistan friendly, the results of 1971 leading from the training camps of Muktibahami to eventual fall of Dhaka are a reality that we Pakistanis accept. The role of the Indian government/ army and its covert agencies is well known. I am not discussing the moral argument of the Indian involvement in the Eastern part of Pakistan that wasn’t even disputed like Kashmir is, but what I am requesting my respected Indian readers here is to see things in context and don’t just dismiss something solely because it seems unfavourable. PA and ISI are doing exactly what Indian army and RAW have been doing and have done to Pakistan in the past. Nothing unique, nothing different nothing out of the ordinary. Going beyond scope of this topic just for the sake of the argument I would add that what ISI and RAW can do together combined pales to what CIA manages to do to its enemies and & “allies” single handed so lets not loose the perspective here.

The PA is fighting a proxy war with India using these militants as cannon fodder. That's the truth. You know it and so do we. But most prefer to live in their cocoon of denial.

Agreed with that although bit over worded and condescending to the indigenous struggle of the Kashmiris who have genuine grievances, going by the same above tone and argument one can say the same thing about the Bangali insurgency & Muktibahami as Indian proxy war that lead to the formation of Bangladesh and breaking of Pakistan but the fact is, as I already concurred that the local people of east Pakistan were genuinely tired of their Western Pakistani leadership, India was just too happy to assist in the disturbance and the resulting all out civil war.
So you know it and I know it what was the role of the RAW and Indian army and I am sure you wont deny that like some diehard rednecks do when their soldiers are exposed with video and still footage where they are dismembering body parts of civilian Iraqis and Afghans as trophies, blowing people up and executing them at point blank range and not even sparing infants and toddlers. So the cocoon jibe can be universally applied sometimes even the live events don’t have any effects on people opinions so I don’t know what amount of documentary evidence and moral and legal argument can help here.

So, it doesn't matter who forms the government in Pakistan, the PA/ISI will continue doing what it has been doing for the last more than two decades. You guys stop the infiltration and dismantle the 42 terrorist training camps, (most of which are in Pak administered Kashmir having the HQ of the Unified Jihad Council at Muzzafarabd),

Yes I agree that the change of the governments doesn’t really change the national policies but having said that for more than ten odd years even before the 9/11 there has been a joint effort to resolve our outstanding problems via dialog and much has been gained in this regard. The ceasefire is holding, terrorists have failed to instigate a war despite repeated terrorist attacks both in Pakistan and India and there is some genuine belief among the leadership that the benefits of a peaceful south east Asia are enormous for both countries. But the best part is, that the people on either side of the border are realising and waking up to the fact that prosperity and happiness is possible even with peaceful coexistence. People are shunning the stereotype and the propaganda and allowing themselves to experience themselves and find out the reality rather than be lead and fed by their respective governments and media. By people I mean the us both.

Now about those alleged terror camps, specially in Muzaffarabad, I have lived in that city for about 3 years and I will like to know if you know exactly where these camps are? One can easily notify that to the UN military observer who is housed in the 1st AK brigade Headquarters. The only camps I am aware of are the ones that are of the refugees that crossed into Pakistan after being fed up with the continued Indian army crackdowns. They are managed and run by UNHCR, I hope you are not blaming the united nations of training the civilians to fight against Indian army now.

As far as infiltration is concerned well your own military is saying it has gone dramatically down and Pakistan has done a lot in this regard. My view in this is the same, since the Musharaf time it’s a realisation that armed conflict is not the answer. The groups who are sill continuing to do so are the ones that are more or less the same who do the same kind of operations in Pakistan as well and this is an issue that will only go away with the mutual help and cooperation of both countries. We have been blaming, criticising and whining about each other for decades, and it hasn’t got us anywhere. Why not try something different and actually help each other out and resolve it that also favours the people of Kashmir?

and then we can start talking peace and solve problems for mutual benefit.

Pakistan can't expect India to ink 'peace deals' with a gun pointed to its head.

yes, Amen to that and yes any peaceful deal has to be without coercion and blackmailing because it wont last long. But it will have to be a middle ground, it might appear that either one side or both are loosing out too much but I must say, any thing that helps resolve our outstanding issues will have our future generations praying for us and thanking us because it will be a win win situation for us all.


Take care

---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

And this is not the first time it has happened, Border Skirmishes have been part and parcel of LOC.

There had been times when Indian soldiers had died too so people should respect the fallen. and try to resolve the reasons which cause so many fine young men to give their lives

thanks and you are correct. I hope our future generations dont have this unending ongoing arguments and conflict