Featured Pakistan Navy Type 054AP Frigates - Update, News & Discussion

[BHarwana]

If you look at my original post, I welcomed this decision by PN. This is necessary for the Fleet and our SLOCs. However, kindly control the little kids online from spewing hatred and abuse.

My friend I was never Quoting you and I never read any of your arguments previously. I was just providing info to the member who asked questions previously. Please don't include me in this west vs east war.

 

[Hell hound]

100% Chinese comes this forum because our goverment educate us that Pakistan is our iron brother since we are young. It's about deep passion for Pakistan.
Then our iron brother shall have faith in us, and we will be together growing into a new high level in the future.
Pakistan is China's Israel, it never changes.
I know Chinese weapon is not the best in all areas, but definitely it can fight hard in war.

try to understand it brother. criticizing a weapon doesn't mean we don't like you guys or that weapon.unlike others most of us pakistani criticize your weapons not to ridicule you but to help you iron out the kinks in the product to help you make it even a better one.

 

[Armchair]

This isn't the 1990s anymore. Those questions you pose can be asked about any platform, western or chinese. World class systems? What does that even mean? Please define. The Chinese have a "world class" destroyer. Pound for pound the best there is. Best quality etc.

The issue was, and still remains, PN's questionable acquisitions. While the Chinese are moving on from the 054a and offering newer designs for export, PN does what it usually does and goes for the 2nd to latest generation design.

World of facts and reality does not change with the decade. Physical laws remains the same whether in 1990s or 2050. 2050 doesn't mean gravity will stop working. Similarly, laws of industrial organization, organization behavior, economic theory, management theory does not change. Instead of making grand statements, try to learn something from the senior posters writing here.

 

[LKJ86]

World of facts and reality does not change with the decade. Physical laws remains the same whether in 1990s or 2050. 2050 doesn't mean gravity will stop working. Similarly, laws of industrial organization, organization behavior, economic theory, management theory does not change. Instead of making grand statements, try to learn something from the senior posters writing here.

Have you been to China in recent years？
Do you know why SAC lost in the project of J-20?

 

[帅的一匹]

Did i hit a nerve here? too bad.



members can only flatter you?



Kindly stop your propaganda, abusive style and threats. I am sure you are wrapped in Chinese flag but you have anything objective to say?



Battle proven in what battle? There is difference between in-service and battle proven. Little Chinese boys and their big egos dont impress me. I am well aware fo the technology Chinese are at, and their developments. This online bickering has no value.


You should mind your word choice "iron brother".

So I have licking the west and instead I should lick you? I should believe everything China says? China will always deliver what they promise? Chinese weapons are state of the art?
What are you arguing about? Why do you have to disrespect people to make your point? Or do you ever have a point?

Chinese weapons are built for the Saturation Doctrine...more for less.
Pakistan is used to using western weapons for precision weapons, less for more.
Both types have different usage and maintenance philosophies.

If you are unable to understand simple concepts, and feel you can go around and use insulting words in somehow defending the honour of your country, you are doing the right opposite. You are only demonstrative that the official and unofficial representatives of the PLA online cannot defend the honor of motherland, rather only show how immature you are.

Coming back to the relationship in the 1960s, we built that relationship. If you little knickers, you have no idea that I have met Chairman Mao, the great leader. Have you? Clueless you are.

China today is a vendor to Pakistan. It sells, we buy. That is it. Stop acting like you are giving us any favors or we are your little poodle that you can just get online and abuse. The level of Delivery of Chinese platforms equipment is well known with us. It is a acceptable risk that we take. That does not make it infallible and state of the art.

You can calm the hell down now, or keep behaving like you have only to exemplify your level of maturity.

Kind wishes to all.



There is a percentage mix in the policy, but many western countries bow to the US policy and hence are not likely suppliers.



Does that give you the right to abuse Pakistani members here, who may have a different opinion than yours?



Agreed. These are procured as AD Ships, and thats their role. This is a gap in PN since Brook/Garcias were returned, and hence a welcome addition. The threat to PN platforms from "Brahmos" is now effectively covered with LY-80 SAM at sea.



If you look at my original post, I welcomed this decision by PN. This is necessary for the Fleet and our SLOCs. However, kindly control the little kids online from spewing hatred and abuse.



This is a policy of every country, and China maybe no exception. The best of the designs are for PLA only. Indeed China has progressed but the cutting edge will never be for export. For the export market, Pakistan being the centroid, there is the export version. Due to the immense technological gap of 1990's since us lagging behind, all input is valuable.



For indian planners who thought of sinking the pakistani surface fleet at the onset of a high intensity conflict would have to replan their OPS plans.

Additionally, the procurement of this ship signifies something else. This signals that Pakistan has now standardized LY-80 as its LOMAD system across the tri-services. Its quite possible that you will see more acquisitions of LY-80, as Pakistan comes closer to declaring / announcing its candidate for HI-MAD/ABM system, the last piece of the nuclear triad.

With the procurement of LY-80 SAM, and its navalized version at sea, the policy makers have effectively demonstrated sound judgement at Joint Staff and each headquarter level not to overly diversify key strategic systems. They have clearly filled the gap in our air defense, and rendered the heavy indian investment in strategic bombers and PGMs less effective than desired to their policy makers. On the naval side, the fear of many ASMs including Harpoon and Brahmos is now contained. I hope the same sound policy and procurement decisions follow the HI-MAD sector.

Why you feel so annoyed when I say type 54 is battle proven? I think you have some negative sentiment toward China in your post. Why you never show this kind of gloomy comment towards USA or the west? You try to portray China as a swindler kept Cheating Pakistan's money with inferior products in the last 50 years, it's something that i start to realize.

You are a very dangerous poster.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Did i hit a nerve here? too bad.



members can only flatter you?



Kindly stop your propaganda, abusive style and threats. I am sure you are wrapped in Chinese flag but you have anything objective to say?



Battle proven in what battle? There is difference between in-service and battle proven. Little Chinese boys and their big egos dont impress me. I am well aware fo the technology Chinese are at, and their developments. This online bickering has no value.


You should mind your word choice "iron brother".

So I have licking the west and instead I should lick you? I should believe everything China says? China will always deliver what they promise? Chinese weapons are state of the art?
What are you arguing about? Why do you have to disrespect people to make your point? Or do you ever have a point?

Chinese weapons are built for the Saturation Doctrine...more for less.
Pakistan is used to using western weapons for precision weapons, less for more.
Both types have different usage and maintenance philosophies.

If you are unable to understand simple concepts, and feel you can go around and use insulting words in somehow defending the honour of your country, you are doing the right opposite. You are only demonstrative that the official and unofficial representatives of the PLA online cannot defend the honor of motherland, rather only show how immature you are.

Coming back to the relationship in the 1960s, we built that relationship. If you little knickers, you have no idea that I have met Chairman Mao, the great leader. Have you? Clueless you are.

China today is a vendor to Pakistan. It sells, we buy. That is it. Stop acting like you are giving us any favors or we are your little poodle that you can just get online and abuse. The level of Delivery of Chinese platforms equipment is well known with us. It is a acceptable risk that we take. That does not make it infallible and state of the art.

You can calm the hell down now, or keep behaving like you have only to exemplify your level of maturity.

Kind wishes to all.



There is a percentage mix in the policy, but many western countries bow to the US policy and hence are not likely suppliers.



Does that give you the right to abuse Pakistani members here, who may have a different opinion than yours?



Agreed. These are procured as AD Ships, and thats their role. This is a gap in PN since Brook/Garcias were returned, and hence a welcome addition. The threat to PN platforms from "Brahmos" is now effectively covered with LY-80 SAM at sea.



If you look at my original post, I welcomed this decision by PN. This is necessary for the Fleet and our SLOCs. However, kindly control the little kids online from spewing hatred and abuse.



This is a policy of every country, and China maybe no exception. The best of the designs are for PLA only. Indeed China has progressed but the cutting edge will never be for export. For the export market, Pakistan being the centroid, there is the export version. Due to the immense technological gap of 1990's since us lagging behind, all input is valuable.



For indian planners who thought of sinking the pakistani surface fleet at the onset of a high intensity conflict would have to replan their OPS plans.

Additionally, the procurement of this ship signifies something else. This signals that Pakistan has now standardized LY-80 as its LOMAD system across the tri-services. Its quite possible that you will see more acquisitions of LY-80, as Pakistan comes closer to declaring / announcing its candidate for HI-MAD/ABM system, the last piece of the nuclear triad.

With the procurement of LY-80 SAM, and its navalized version at sea, the policy makers have effectively demonstrated sound judgement at Joint Staff and each headquarter level not to overly diversify key strategic systems. They have clearly filled the gap in our air defense, and rendered the heavy indian investment in strategic bombers and PGMs less effective than desired to their policy makers. On the naval side, the fear of many ASMs including Harpoon and Brahmos is now contained. I hope the same sound policy and procurement decisions follow the HI-MAD sector.

They have the option to extend the range of the LoMADS segment relatively seamlessly. ALIT is now offering the 70 km LY80B/HQ-16B. It doesn't require setting up a new support system, but it makes the MADS area more effective.

I hope we're not arming the new frigates with the Harba or C802. I'd rather arming them with the supersonic cruising CM302, while also using the OTHR to provide targeting support to small ships. Basically distributed lethality approach involving the Harba (esp. as a LACM) from Azmat FACs.

 

[帅的一匹]

try to understand it brother. criticizing a weapon doesn't mean we don't like you guys or that weapon.unlike others most of us pakistani criticize your weapons not to ridicule you but to help you iron out the kinks in the product to help you make it even a better one.

Actually he said Chinese weapon is garbage last time, how to make a garbage better if it's garbage. He should get off from the high horse, and face the reality. Today's China is not the China when he met Chairman Mao.

 

[BHarwana]

with inferior products in the last 50 years

Just out of curiosity which Chinese products are inferior to west?


I find Ships made by BAE systems as piece of junk.

Royal Navy ship HMS Diamond 'breaks down' in Gulf

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-42101937

 

[帅的一匹]

It can't go with it like: Pakistan buys western systems because PN/PA/PAF have high standard and criteria, and buys Chinese weapon because Pakistan can't afford the west one or string attached. Pakistan just bought 30 T129 with 1.5 billions! It's double standard.

China is not only vendor to Pakistan, we had helped Pakistan to build up assembly line and industrial base for building JF17. What you get in the last 50 years with USA? Did they give you any ability to produce fighter jests on your own? Or just simply buying off the shelves. If you can't tell who is real friend and who is taking advantage of you, then I have nothing more to say.

 

[CriticalThought]

It can't go with it like: Pakistan buys western systems because PN/PA/PAF have high standard and criteria, and buys Chinese weapon because Pakistan can't afford the west one or string attached. Pakistan just bought 30 T129 with 1.5 billions! It's double standard.

China is not only vendor to Pakistan, we had helped Pakistan to build up assembly line and industrial base for building JF17. What you get in the last 50 years with USA? Did they give you any ability to produce fighter jests on your own? Or just simply buying off the shelves. If you can't tell who is real friend and who is taking advantage of you, then I have nothing more to say.

Some people have preconceived notions that they will never change. Trying to make them see your point of view is like banging head against the wall.

Anyway, how do u see the PN's strategy unfolding from this point onwards? What would it take for PN to pose a credible thread to an Indian carrier battle group without actually amassing a similar kind of firepower?

Just out of curiosity which Chinese products are inferior to west?


I find Ships made by BAE systems as piece of junk.

Royal Navy ship HMS Diamond 'breaks down' in Gulf

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-42101937

It's not like the Indian ships we are going up against have very high quality. The frequent incidents involving IN ships are proof enough.

 

[Basel]

They have the option to extend the range of the LoMADS segment relatively seamlessly. ALIT is now offering the 70 km LY80B/HQ-16B. It doesn't require setting up a new support system, but it makes the MADS area more effective.

I hope we're not arming the new frigates with the Harba or C802. I'd rather arming them with the supersonic cruising CM302, while also using the OTHR to provide targeting support to small ships. Basically distributed lethality approach involving the Harba (esp. as a LACM) from Azmat FACs.

It will be interesting if C-302 is deployed in 2x4 configuration and YJ-18s in VLS with SAMS, DK-10 is also quad packable.

 

[BHarwana]

It's not like the Indian ships we are going up against have very high quality. The frequent incidents involving IN ships are proof enough.

Who ever says that Chinese ships are of bad quality will get opposition from me. China has very good quality products and most of western weapons system have Chinese tech in them. China is investing billions on R&D and that is not a joke. The Chinese ship yards are producing ships continuously with out break and they have good experience and tech. West is falling behind.

 

[帅的一匹]

Some people have preconceived notions that they will never change. Trying to make them see your point of view is like banging head against the wall.

Anyway, how do u see the PN's strategy unfolding from this point onwards? What would it take for PN to pose a credible thread to an Indian carrier battle group without actually amassing a similar kind of firepower?



It's not like the Indian ships we are going up against have very high quality. The frequent incidents involving IN ships are proof enough.

You still remember the news Indian navy's Kilo sub approaching Pakistan's coastal line? PN is inducting Type 54 for ASW role with its towed arrayed sonar.And type 54 can provide area air-defense with LY80N.

 

[LKJ86]

It will be interesting if C-302 is deployed in 2x4 configuration and YJ-18s in VLS with SAMS, DK-10 is also quad packable.

YJ-18 is a monster. I don't know what its export version will be.

 

[帅的一匹]

YJ-18 is a monster. I don't kown what its export version will be.

Can type 54 fire YJ18?