Featured Pakistan Navy Type 054AP Frigates - Update, News & Discussion

[UserUnknown2025]

Blabbering like a lunatic will not get you anywhere either. I have earlier explained to you that we have a tradition of respecting our senior Ex Service men. We do it to acknowledge the service they have provided to the motherland. People have different styles of writing and while one may not agree one has to accept an alternative point of view. You are still stinging from the last altercation that you had with @Bilal Khan 777 which is pitiable to see from someone wh9 claims to be a friend of Pakistan. So please grow up!
Anyways my post was not referred to you. If you have something positive to contribute then please do so otherwise please spare me the crocodile tears.
China is well respected in Pakistan your hopping up and down carrying the red flag is not going to add anything to the debate.
Regards.
A

Seniority = correctness??

And you think slandering another country's weapons is a "positive" contribution?
I know ex-servicemen are highly respected but I don't think it is a good idea to worship them, taking everything they say as facts and any opposing ideas to what they propose as "crocodile tears".

 

[帅的一匹]

He can't judge a thing from his experience 20 years ago.

Seniority = correctness??

And you think slandering another country's weapons is a "positive" contribution?
I know ex-servicemen are highly respected but I don't think it is a good idea to worship them, taking everything they say as facts and any opposing ideas to what they propose as "crocodile tears".

I think 'Crocodile tears' is a term that Indians shall give me.what I get from those 'crocodile tears'? Maybe I need some rest.

 

[Dreamer.]

Well looks like the new CNS has taken bold and decisive actions and this should be highly commended. Good on the CNS ! Unlike his predecessor who seemed to be more interested in games and other yachting competitions. What a waste.

Maybe you missed the fact that it was finalized during the previous CNS's time. If the reports are correct than the first two were even ordered during his time, without much fanfare, that's real professionalism. He may have been a good yachtsman also. Why do you object?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

My personal opinion is that OTH capabilities will come through space based remote sensing and AEWACS. But we never know what would be the result of evaluations by PN. If they see enough benefit in OTHR, they may go or it. It should also be noted that MoDP yearbook for 2016 contained an item about VLF radar.

Yep the idea is to basically build a complete suite ... OTHR from the air, surface, land and (via IMINT) space. In a sense, PakSat-MM1 (SATCOM) and (if it comes to fruition) PakNav (SATNAV) would also enable smaller ships (or even UAVs) to provide forward observation that can be relayed to a wide array of AShM-launching units.

Say what one might about China, but I think the support (at least in terms of making the line-of-credit available) for bolstering Pakistan's capabilities so rapidly stems in part from having Pakistan take ownership of the CPEC-Gwadar-Arabian Sea link without any PLA/PLAN support.

I'd keep an eye not on how the Type 054As are inducted, but how they'll be upgraded; I hope our guys make a strong effort to secure the HQ-26 (Chinese MR-to-LR SAM).

Now we just need jet-powered MPAs with hefty AShW, ASW and LACM capabilities.

 

[araz]

It's now you need to grow up and open your eyes. He maybe served in the army 20 years ago, but things changed a lot since then. So why not get off the high horse and start to accept the reality?
I have no personal grudge with him, I just refute him every time he demean our weapons.

Wang .
I am proverbially of that age where one of my feet is in the grave so can only grow sideways not upwards. People in the armed forces have contacts and sources the likes of which are not present in the non military world. Him demeaning or appreciating Chinese weapons is irrelevant. He expresses an opinion if you think things are different bring your evidence forward. The lack of QC problems in Chinese hardware are well known, from initial vibration and radio issues in JFT, to flme outs of the WS10 on the J10 to serious health and safety issues on the F22P to name a few. Your industry till a few years ago did not even have a parts cataloguing system. So dont act like you are the best in the world yet. Sure Chinese weapons quality is improving leaps and bounds but still some way to go to meet western standards.
A

 

[CriticalThought]

Yep the idea is to basically build a complete suite ... OTHR from the air, surface, land and (via IMINT) space. In a sense, PakSat-MM1 (SATCOM) and (if it comes to fruition) PakNav (SATNAV) would also enable smaller ships (or even UAVs) to provide forward observation that can be relayed to a wide array of AShM-launching units.

Say what one might about China, but I think the support (at least in terms of making the line-of-credit available) for bolstering Pakistan's capabilities so rapidly stems in part from having Pakistan take ownership of the CPEC-Gwadar-Arabian Sea link without any PLA/PLAN support.

I'd keep an eye not on how the Type 054As are inducted, but how they'll be upgraded; I hope our guys make a strong effort to secure the HQ-26 (Chinese MR-to-LR SAM).

Now we just need jet-powered MPAs with hefty AShW, ASW and LACM capabilities.

PN's high level philosophy is yet to become clear. Are these frigates mainly for OTHR and being able to provide targeting data for smaller FACs? A configuration of mainly SAMs would imply as much. The ships would have defence against aerial threats and submarines, and rely on supporting vessels for AShM capability. This would indeed be an interesting battle plan. OTOH, if PN is planning for major fire power against IN, then we should see other acquisitions in the future, especially destroyers. If there is one lesson to be learnt from Syria, it is that cruise missiles are successful in numbers. As in, 100+ launched simultaneously. If this lesson is to be applied, we either need a very large number of FACs, or a solid number of frigates and destroyers.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

PN's high level philosophy is yet to become clear. Are these frigates mainly for OTHR and being able to provide targeting data for smaller FACs? A configuration of mainly SAMs would imply as much. The ships would have defence against aerial threats and submarines, and rely on supporting vessels for AShM capability. This would indeed be an interesting battle plan. OTOH, if PN is planning for major fire power against IN, then we should see other acquisitions in the future, especially destroyers. If there is one lesson to be learnt from Syria, it is that cruise missiles are successful in numbers. As in, 100+ launched simultaneously. If this lesson is to be applied, we either need a very large number of FACs, or a solid number of frigates and destroyers.

Apparently the PN's Type 054As will be configured the same as those of the PLAN, which would imply that the OTHRs are coming regardless. So it opens up the capability to flexibly use the Harba AShM (albeit at up to 300 km if we're getting the SLR-66 OTHR, not sure if the PLAN Type-366 is longer-ranged). More so than the Harba AShM (which I'd rather use as a LACM), I'm hoping for the CM-302 supersonic cruising AShM.

 

[CriticalThought]

Wang .
I am proverbially of that age where one of my feet is in the grave so can only grow sideways not upwards. People in the armed forces have contacts and sources the likes of which are not present in the non military world. Him demeaning or appreciating Chinese weapons is irrelevant. He expresses an opinion if you think things are different bring your evidence forward. The lack of QC problems in Chinese hardware are well known, from initial vibration and radio issues in JFT, to flme outs of the WS10 on the J10 to serious health and safety issues on the F22P to name a few. Your industry till a few years ago did not even have a parts cataloguing system. So dont act like you are the best in the world yet. Sure Chinese weapons quality is improving leaps and bounds but still some way to go to meet western standards.
A

Thank you. Now that was extremely enlightening and deeply insightful. I whole-heartedly encourage such evidence based critique which informs those of us who don't have inside information on military matters.

 

[帅的一匹]

Wang .
I am proverbially of that age where one of my feet is in the grave so can only grow sideways not upwards. People in the armed forces have contacts and sources the likes of which are not present in the non military world. Him demeaning or appreciating Chinese weapons is irrelevant. He expresses an opinion if you think things are different bring your evidence forward. The lack of QC problems in Chinese hardware are well known, from initial vibration and radio issues in JFT, to flme outs of the WS10 on the J10 to serious health and safety issues on the F22P to name a few. Your industry till a few years ago did not even have a parts cataloguing system. So dont act like you are the best in the world yet. Sure Chinese weapons quality is improving leaps and bounds but still some way to go to meet western standards.
A

@araz, let PN make the choice. I'm just a nobody from China. Prove me Chinese weapon don't have strict quality control process.

 

[CriticalThought]

Apparently the PN's Type 054As will be configured the same as those of the PLAN, which would imply that the OTHRs are coming regardless. So it opens up the capability to flexibly use the Harba AShM (albeit at up to 300 km if we're getting the SLR-66 OTHR, not sure if the PLAN Type-366 is longer-ranged). More so than the Harba AShM (which I'd rather use as a LACM), I'm hoping for the CM-302 supersonic cruising AShM.

In a 32 cell VLS, any mix n match of SAM and cruise missiles would only serve to dilute either capability.

 

[帅的一匹]

Did you see WS10 flame out by picture or in person? Or just heresay.

Period, I don't wanna derail the thread. Let's call it an end today.

 

[CriticalThought]

Wang .
I am proverbially of that age where one of my feet is in the grave so can only grow sideways not upwards. People in the armed forces have contacts and sources the likes of which are not present in the non military world. Him demeaning or appreciating Chinese weapons is irrelevant. He expresses an opinion if you think things are different bring your evidence forward. The lack of QC problems in Chinese hardware are well known, from initial vibration and radio issues in JFT, to flme outs of the WS10 on the J10 to serious health and safety issues on the F22P to name a few. Your industry till a few years ago did not even have a parts cataloguing system. So dont act like you are the best in the world yet. Sure Chinese weapons quality is improving leaps and bounds but still some way to go to meet western standards.
A

For the record, one instance of any of these problems doesn't reveal anything. History is replete with examples of Western equipment failing. These systems are so complex that there are always chances for errors. But when we level an accusation of low quality, it means a systematic and determined refusal to solve such issues such that problems come up regularly and consistently. I am sure such an accusation cannot be levelled against modern Chinese hardware. The F-22 was a very old design.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

In a 32 cell VLS, any mix n match of SAM and cruise missiles would only serve to dilute either capability.

I wouldn't put LACM/AShM in the VLS. Rather, swap the standard 2x4 C-802 with a 2x3 CM-302 or Harba.

 

[CriticalThought]

I wouldn't put LACM/AShM in the VLS. Rather, swap the standard 2x4 C-802 with a 2x3 CM-302 or Harba.

Good idea. But in terms of numbers, that is a meagre capability. Will the ship have only that many missiles or is it possible to reload the batteries after firing? *Newbie alert*

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Good idea. But in terms of numbers, that is a meagre capability. Will the ship have only that many missiles or is it possible to reload the batteries after firing? *Newbie alert*

They'd likely need to be re-loaded (limited space to move around on-board, don't think the Type 054A has its own cranes either). Basically, a support ship would be needed. But to compensate for limited payload, additional ships will be needed. Would be interesting to see if the OPV 1900s can be armed for wartime.