Pakistan Navy | News & Discussions.

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

While having RAM would have been ideal (specifically the 22km RAM Blk 2) that will not be on the cards. The most likely solution will be a 24 cell FL-3000N (9KM/6km againt supersonic) or a Phalanx from the retiring type 21s. What i would love to see (though it will never happen) would be PN to approach Russia about designing a naval 18-20 cell air defense system, in the vein of RAM or FL-3000N, around the Pantsir 57E6-E. I know they have /are developing the Pantsir-M but that is an 8 cell unit with twin gatling guns.

Another option, if the rear location can handle 15t, would be the Tor-M2KM. With the 9M388 it would. Give you 16 missiles with a 15km range (in a vls setup). The limiting issue would be the ability to hold 15t above the hangar but space wise i think it would fit (2.5m x 7. 1m). 2 of these BTW wouldn't make for too bad a replacement for the FM-90 of the f-22p. Will replace 8 15km missiles with 32 15km missiles.

RAM is still on the cards.

I was at IDEAS 2018 and RAMSYS (which was the German partner in the RAM program) told me that the German Gov't approved the sale of the RAM to Pakistan. They said the German Gov't has or is ready to settle the issue with the US should Pakistan sign an order. Not only that, but RAMSYS was even cleared to help the PN integrate the RAM to both "new and existing ships", and when I asked if that meant Chinese ships, they said "yes."

We know how tough it is to get German approval, so RAMSYS stating that they've got support from Berlin on offering the RAM to Pakistan is a big deal.

The Germans may also be interested in other next-gen PN programs, e.g., submarine rescue and salvage vessel, the miniature sub, additional patrol boats, and the long-range maritime patrol (LRMP) aircraft to augment (and maybe replace) the P-3C.

I think the fact that the PN didn't pick-up the FL-3000N is a hint at it still weighing its PDMS options. There's the FL-3000N, RAM, and the Thales Crotale Naval Mk3. If we wait a bit, then Denel/RDM's Cheetah as well.

 

[Tank131]

RAM is still on the cards.

I was at IDEAS 2018 and RAMSYS (which was the German partner in the RAM program) told me that the German Gov't approved the sale of the RAM to Pakistan. They said the German Gov't has or is ready to settle the issue with the US should Pakistan sign an order. Not only that, but RAMSYS was even cleared to help the PN integrate the RAM to both "new and existing ships", and when I asked if that meant Chinese ships, they said "yes."

We know how tough it is to get German approval, so RAMSYS stating that they've got support from Berlin on offering the RAM to Pakistan is a big deal.

The Germans may also be interested in other next-gen PN programs, e.g., submarine rescue and salvage vessel, the miniature sub, additional patrol boats, and the long-range maritime patrol (LRMP) aircraft to augment (and maybe replace) the P-3C.

I think the fact that the PN didn't pick-up the FL-3000N is a hint at it still weighing its PDMS options. There's the FL-3000N, RAM, and the Thales Crotale Naval Mk3. If we wait a bit, then Denel/RDM's Cheetah as well.

While it will be a great thing to get German backing for the sale, i think that it will be harder (even with German support given Trumps known hatred of Merkel) to get the US to agree. However if it does, it should be blk 2 abd should also be sought for F-22P to replace FM-90.

The C-ram system represents an interesting prospect in that it is a 12 km ciws (with cheetah) and a anti-RAM (rocket, morter, artillery) protection (with Mongoose 3) system much the way iron dome is, but at far less cost. But im not sure where you could fit the vls. On Milgem you need am above deck system. You wont likely need Mongoose component of the system. But also I'm not sure if they have navalized the system. That being said, Pakistan should get many of these for western border and LOC.

 

[Gryphon]

While having RAM would have been ideal (specifically the 22km RAM Blk 2) that will not be on the cards. The most likely solution will be a 24 cell FL-3000N (9KM/6km againt supersonic) or a Phalanx from the retiring type 21s.

From: https://www.mbda-deutschland.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/RAM-e-18.pdf

Name
• RAM BLOCK 2

Missile characteristics
• Weight: 88 kg
• Length: 2,9 m
• Diameter: 160 mm
• Speed: supersonic
• Range: > 10 km
• Seeker: RF & IR

So, the difference in range (RAM Block 2 vs FL-3000N) is just 1 km. RAM Block 2 costs over USD 1 million per missile, which may eventually tilt the PN towards FL-3000N.

 

[ghazi52]

Naval chief satisfied with operational readiness of Pakistan Navy

KARACHI: Pakistan Navy Coastal Command Annual Efficiency Competition Parade was held at PNS QASIM, Manora, on Tuesday.

While addressing the ceremony, Admiral Zafar Mahmood Abbasi, Chief of the Naval Staff, highlighted that Coastal Command of Pakistan Navy has been entrusted with the onerous task of safeguarding the Coast from Sir Creek to Jiwani, under challenging internal and external security situation and harsh topographic environment.

The naval chief also expressed satisfaction over operational readiness of Pakistan Navy in prevalent maritime challenges including security aspects related to Gwadar Port and maritime components of CPEC Project. The Naval Chief reiterated Pakistan Navy’s unflinching resolve to ensure seaward defence of vital maritime infrastructure and protection of maritime interests of Pakistan against all threats and challenges.

Admiral Abbasi stated that Pakistan Navy is maintaining a robust security posture along the Pakistani Coast and in regional seas to deter the nefarious elements from any illicit activities. This effort, however, requires constant struggle and Pakistan Navy is ready to defend the motherland from all external and internal threats at all cost.

He emphasized upon the three pillars of Pakistan Navy's vision for achieving desired goals which include Combat Readiness, Jump-start the Maritime Sector and Ideological Domain.

While emphasizing significance of Blue Economy and Pakistan’s Maritime potential, the naval chief remarked that for Pakistan's economic prosperity, focus towards Maritime sector, its development and security is indispensable. Admiral Zafar Mahmood Abbasi underscored various initiatives of PN including conduct of National Maritime Security Workshop, Seminars and linkage with Business community to provide an insight and a good grasp over what tremendous potential maritime sector holds and to tap these resources for the country's economic prosperity.

Earlier, in his welcome address, Commander Coast Vice Admiral Muhammad Fayyaz Gilani highlighted the operational achievements of Coastal Command and presented a resume of activities undertaken during the year 2018. He stated that the Coastal Command, besides other operational activities had also actively participated in major Maritime Exercise "Seaspark 2018".

Later, the Chief Guest gave away efficiency shields to the units for their best performance, during the year 2018.

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[Tank131]

From: https://www.mbda-deutschland.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/RAM-e-18.pdf

Name
• RAM BLOCK 2

Missile characteristics
• Weight: 88 kg
• Length: 2,9 m
• Diameter: 160 mm
• Speed: supersonic
• Range: > 10 km
• Seeker: RF & IR

So, the difference in range (RAM Block 2 vs FL-3000N) is just 1 km. RAM Block 2 costs over USD 1 million per missile, which may eventually tilt the PN towards FL-3000N.

Much like CAMM/Sea Ceptor's stated range is ">25km+", but it has been reported to have been tested to ranges in excess of 60km (note, this is not CAMM-ER which has greater range than this), so too is the ">10km" just a term used to mask its actual range. Here is a good article from Popular Mechanics stating that the range of RAM blk 1 was 5.6 nmi (10km). The range of Block 2 is around 2.5X that, or 14 nmi (25km).

The new RAM Block 2 has a more powerful rocket motor and improved control surfaces, which make it faster and more maneuverable than its predecessor. Davis says the added power not only makes the RAM Block 2 faster, but also allows the missile to maintain its speed during energy-sapping high-G turns needed to intercept targets. The Block 2 has two and a half times the range of the Block 1 RAM, which has a reported effective intercept range of about 5.6 miles. The latest RAM also has an improved seeker package with greater sensitivity, allowing it to detect anti-ship missiles that employ low probability-of-intercept receivers.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...navys-ship-defense-missile-just-got-deadlier/

 

[Gryphon]

Much like CAMM/Sea Ceptor's stated range is ">25km+", but it has been reported to have been tested to ranges in excess of 60km (note, this is not CAMM-ER which has greater range than this), so too is the ">10km" just a term used to mask its actual range. Here is a good article from Popular Mechanics stating that the range of RAM blk 1 was 5.6 nmi (10km). The range of Block 2 is around 2.5X that, or 14 nmi (25km).



https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...navys-ship-defense-missile-just-got-deadlier/

RAM Block 1 range: 7.5 km

Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=dPg3AQAAMAAJ&dq



From: https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/ram

The Block 2 variant, the latest evolution in the development of the RAM missile, has a larger rocket motor, advanced control section and an enhanced RF receiver capable of detecting the quietest of threat emitters. The improvements make the missile two and a half times more maneuverable, with one and a half times the effective intercept range.



Popular Mechanics is some random magazine with incorrect data about RAM (contradicted by official sources).

Masking of actual range is just an assumption which may/may not be true.

 

[Tank131]

Then frankly its not that impressive over FL-3000N.

RAM Block 1 range: 7.5 km

Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=dPg3AQAAMAAJ&dq



From: https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/ram

The Block 2 variant, the latest evolution in the development of the RAM missile, has a larger rocket motor, advanced control section and an enhanced RF receiver capable of detecting the quietest of threat emitters. The improvements make the missile two and a half times more maneuverable, with one and a half times the effective intercept range.



Popular Mechanics is some random magazine with incorrect data about RAM (contradicted by official sources).

Masking of actual range is just an assumption which may/may not be true.

 

[Nasr]

RAM is still on the cards.

I was at IDEAS 2018 and RAMSYS (which was the German partner in the RAM program) told me that the German Gov't approved the sale of the RAM to Pakistan. They said the German Gov't has or is ready to settle the issue with the US should Pakistan sign an order. Not only that, but RAMSYS was even cleared to help the PN integrate the RAM to both "new and existing ships", and when I asked if that meant Chinese ships, they said "yes."

We know how tough it is to get German approval, so RAMSYS stating that they've got support from Berlin on offering the RAM to Pakistan is a big deal.

The Germans may also be interested in other next-gen PN programs, e.g., submarine rescue and salvage vessel, the miniature sub, additional patrol boats, and the long-range maritime patrol (LRMP) aircraft to augment (and maybe replace) the P-3C.

I think the fact that the PN didn't pick-up the FL-3000N is a hint at it still weighing its PDMS options. There's the FL-3000N, RAM, and the Thales Crotale Naval Mk3. If we wait a bit, then Denel/RDM's Cheetah as well.

Let's say if (and that's a big if) RAM is accessible to Pakistan Navy. Then which platform would that be used on? I'm making an educated guess here, but would RAM be incorporated on the Milgem Corvettes? Or would it be possible to integrate them on F-22Ps?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Let's say if (and that's a big if) RAM is accessible to Pakistan Navy. Then which platform would that be used on? I'm making an educated guess here, but would RAM be incorporated on the Milgem Corvettes? Or would it be possible to integrate them on F-22Ps?

The most plausible route is the MILGEM.

But RAMSYS clearly said that it could also be put on the Chinese warships, and the integration work can also be done in Pakistan.

Not unprecedented to pair Western weapons to a Chinese ship; Thailand integrated the ESSM to their Type 053s.

 

[khanasifm]

F-22p has tons of German equipment including sonar etc

 

[Tank131]

The most plausible route is the MILGEM.

But RAMSYS clearly said that it could also be put on the Chinese warships, and the integration work can also be done in Pakistan.

Not unprecedented to pair Western weapons to a Chinese ship; Thailand integrated the ESSM to their Type 053s.

The issue of integrating equipment from multiplensources is often related more to the willingness of the various suppliers to allow it. As you said, the Thai navy integrated MK. 41VLS and ESSM on a chinese vessel. Similarly the Thales SMART-S mk2 is integrated onto an Algerian corvettes from China (not sure if it was sourced via Turkey but i believe the French would still have needed to approve).

 

[LKJ86]

 

[ghazi52]

Director General Public Relations -
Pakistan Navy COMKAR command Annual Efficiency Award 2018, held at PNS JAUHAR

 

[ghazi52]

Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral Zafar Mahmood Abbasi is on official visit to Bahrain.

Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Zafar Mahmood Abbasi exchanging views with Commander Combined Task Force (CTF) 150

 

[Amigator]

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Does the HQ-7 (FM-90) installed on PN Ships has a manual reloader or Auto Loader capability. And is there any knowledge about how much missiles are on board, usually?