Pakistan lost much in relationship with USA

[beijingwalker]

That's very true. US never intended to build up Pakistan, they used Pakistan to counter first USSR and then Taliban. Now they start to use India to counter China but today US is not that strong and their tool India is not that competent.

 

[Sully3]

That's very true. US never intended to build up Pakistan, they used Pakistan to counter first USSR and then Taliban. Now they start to use India to counter China but today US is not that strong and their tool India is not that competent.

China will need to spend money on Pakistani army if it really wants to counter India in the region.
Any Indian plan of attacking Pakistan and breaking away Balochistan or Kashmir will most likely mean defeat of Chinese plan for the region, this cant happen.

China has to and will arm Pakistani military to the teeth to counter a regional terrorist country like India responsible for spreading terrorism in the neighbourhood.

 

[undercover JIX]

Pakistan made its own choices as a sovereign nation, and must bear the consequences, good and bad.

Tell that to your USA and Donald Duck(as mentioned by OP) and its supporter and defenders, near the consequences and leave Pakistan alone, why every second day someone from USA running their mouth about Pakistan. USA must accept its failure and bear the consequences, why blaming Pakistan.

 

[LeGenD]

Pakistan made its own choices as a sovereign nation, and must bear the consequences, good and bad.

Precisely.

This is what some do not get.

Blaming others is the new hobby.

That's very true. US never intended to build up Pakistan, they used Pakistan to counter first USSR and then Taliban. Now they start to use India to counter China but today US is not that strong and their tool India is not that competent.

Contrary to popular belief, US has invested a lot in Pakistan. I know this through personal contacts and relevant homework.

Unfortunately, a large number of US-AID funded projects failed due to bureaucratic hurdles, political disputes and due to the fact that scores of Pakistani politicians were not interested in matters of welfare. Most are interested in earning bucks from virtually every project.

You have no idea about the magnitude of corruption in Pakistan in different walks of life.

As a Chinese - you have witnessed the fruits of large-scale American investment in your country. Tell me! Were they not honest in their business ventures?

I tell you that PDF crowd is largely toxic in its expressions.

PAK-US relations have reached a low point due to many factors and it is not their fault exclusively. Pakistan did not devise an appropriate course of engagement and foreign policy for the US, unfortunately.

Conversely, China achieved win-win with both Pakistan and US. This show that China - as a nation - is more pragmatic, and your country is doing something right.

 

[Meengla]

China will need to spend money on Pakistani army if it really wants to counter India in the region.
Any Indian plan of attacking Pakistan and breaking away Balochistan or Kashmir will most likely mean defeat of Chinese plan for the region, this cant happen.

China has to and will arm Pakistani military to the teeth to counter a regional terrorist country like India responsible for spreading terrorism in the neighbourhood.

Yes.
And let's not discount the many benefits Pakistan acquired since 1947 by allying with America. But, now, unless Pakistan dumps China, accept Indian hegemony in the region, Pakistan, for the foreseeable future, will only drift away from America. China must help Pakistan more and more. It's in mutual interests.

 

[VCheng]

Tell that to your USA and Donald Duck(as mentioned by OP) and its supporter and defenders, near the consequences and leave Pakistan alone, why every second day someone from USA running their mouth about Pakistan. USA must accept its failure and bear the consequences, why blaming Pakistan.

As I keep saying unequivocally, both Pakistan and USA have equal rights to pursue only those policies that serve their respective national interests, and all the consequences of such policies too.

Precisely.

This is what some do not get.

Blaming others is the new hobby.

Oh everyone gets it, but not many can admit it, since blaming someone else is far easier than accepting responsibility where it rightfully belongs. I wonder if any COAS (or PM) in Pakistan's history has had the equivalent plaque of "The Buck Stops Here!" on their desk like Truman did (it is still displayed in his library).

 

[SHAH820]

LOLLLLLLLLLLL! Please. We have served the Americans and the Arabs. Barely any decision in our history have been made as a sovereign nation. Simply because we don't serve Pakistan but we serve others.

about whole world against pakistan when it try to make nuclear bomb but yet decision was made by pakistanies that we will make it even when clinton threaten us ,when USSR entered in afghanistan no one care about us and muslim countries would be happy to see destruction of pakistan because they serve USSR still fought that war all alone and for US read the history they came 2 years late and only provide us with money to be given to taliban and some weaponry which they tried to take back as fast as possible US accuse us for stealing their tomahawk missile still 2005 we copy it and tested babur cruise missile,many drones were chased back to afghanistan in mushi era US+india+iran+afghanistan+UAE+most of arab nation are still against CPEC still its in progress and many more .
its just new monkey politician destroyed our image

 

[Enigma_]

about whole world against pakistan when it try to make nuclear bomb but yet decision was made by pakistanies that we will make it even when clinton threaten us ,when USSR entered in afghanistan no one care about us and muslim countries would be happy to see destruction of pakistan because they serve USSR still fought that war all alone and for US read the history they came 2 years late and only provide us with money to be given to taliban and some weaponry which they tried to take back as fast as possible US accuse us for stealing their tomahawk missile still 2005 we copy it and tested babur cruise missile,many drones were chased back to afghanistan in mushi era US+india+iran+afghanistan+UAE+most of arab nation are still against CPEC still its in progress and many more .
its just new monkey politician destroyed our image

I'll give you nuclear weapons. It is about the only decision we made as a sovereign nation. And recently CPEC. There's not much else. And it isn't just monkey politicians but our entire awaam is to blame.

 

[Super Falcon]

Sir pakistan did not make choices but paid zia made tge choice

Pakistani public always and will be forever against USA friendship if u look at hein side we lost our respect usa treated us like slaves better cut ur throat

Now pak doing great job by removing garbafe from politics one by one so the US puppet show have no effect we are ready as nation to bear any conclusion against USA

Pakistan made its own choices as a sovereign nation, and must bear the consequences, good and bad.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Pakistan did not devise an appropriate course of engagement and foreign policy for the US, unfortunately.

Sadly this is true. The angst against USA is convenient and I believe is actively encouraged by the elites in Pakistan. I know America is far from angel but the fact is it was Pakistani elites that allowed and allow Pakistan to be sold short. American President, American officials are there to look after America's interests.

It's no good being annoyed at them. It's like playing a game of cricket where you lose but blame it on the other team. The fact is Pakistan elites whenever they engage outside countries do so with a eye on their own private interests and not the interests of the Pakistani state. The result of this is what you see today. This continues today even.

Take Saudia Arabia or UAE. Both countries have strong relationship Pakistani elite - not Pakistan. There is differance between the two. This can be seen how KSA/GCC court Nawaz, Musharaf, Shahbaz as seen recently how a plane came to take him to GCC. However KSA/GCC relationship does not extend to Pakistan itself. Find out how they treat Pakistani workers and you will see what I mean.

There should stress on institutional relationships and not private relationships. For instance I would prefer KSA/GCC to have a official policy where they favour Pakistani workers over Indians. If this was achieved then who cares if Pak PM does not get on with GCC rulers.

The fact is Pak ruling elite are prepared to sell themselves even if Pakistan loses out. To be fair this exists across the entire political, military, civil elite. The common go is our elite will have children attending US university. Often they will have children who will settle in USA. They will have apartments in Dubai, London or New York. As soon as they retire or in between they will ship out abroad. The West/GCC Arabs know this. That is why they simply buy our elite and kick Pakistan around like a wild dog.

Right now where is Musharaf, Raheel Sharif, Nawaz etc etc

 

[VCheng]

Sir pakistan did not make choices but paid zia made tge choice

Pakistani public always and will be forever against USA friendship if u look at hein side we lost our respect usa treated us like slaves better cut ur throat

Now pak doing great job by removing garbafe from politics one by one so the US puppet show have no effect we are ready as nation to bear any conclusion against USA

Fair point, but it is up to the leadership of the country to make decisions on its behalf. They must choose wisely.

 

[cocomo]

Pakistan made its own choices as a sovereign nation, and must bear the consequences, good and bad.

What choices?

As I keep saying unequivocally, both Pakistan and USA have equal rights to pursue only those policies that serve their respective national interests, and all the consequences of such policies too.

Every little thing goes against US national interests. We can't import gas, we can't have good relations with Iran, China, Russia. We have to live in poverty so that we can easily be bought. And a hundred different things. They want India as a regional hegemon and thats the last thing Pakistan would want to happen. The only role they can play in our region is of a spoiler, i think its in our national interests to make them eff off from our region.

 

[Enigma_]

Sadly this is true. The angst against USA is convenient and I believe is actively encouraged by the elites in Pakistan. I know America is far from angel but the fact is it was Pakistani elites that allowed and allow Pakistan to be sold short. American President, American officials are there to look after America's interests.

It's no good being annoyed at them. It's like playing a game of cricket where you lose but blame it on the other team. The fact is Pakistan elites whenever they engage outside countries do so with a eye on their own private interests and not the interests of the Pakistani state. The result of this is what you see today. This continues today even.

Take Saudia Arabia or UAE. Both countries have strong relationship Pakistani elite - not Pakistan. There is differance between the two. This can be seen how KSA/GCC court Nawaz, Musharaf, Shahbaz as seen recently how a plane came to take him to GCC. However KSA/GCC relationship does not extend to Pakistan itself. Find out how they treat Pakistani workers and you will see what I mean.

There should stress on institutional relationships and not private relationships. For instance I would prefer KSA/GCC to have a official policy where they favour Pakistani workers over Indians. If this was achieved then who cares if Pak PM does not get on with GCC rulers.

The fact is Pak ruling elite are prepared to sell themselves even if Pakistan loses out. To be fair this exists across the entire political, military, civil elite. The common go is our elite will have children attending US university. Often they will have children who will settle in USA. They will have apartments in Dubai, London or New York. As soon as they retire or in between they will ship out abroad. The West/GCC Arabs know this. That is why they simply buy our elite and kick Pakistan around like a wild dog.

Right now where is Musharaf, Raheel Sharif, Nawaz etc etc

Whilst I agree with the gist of your post, you have the order of the cause and effect the wrong way around. The elites of Pakistan are kept in power because the foreign powers have installed and kept them there!

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The elites of Pakistan are kept in power because the foreign powers have installed and kept them there!

True. And whose failure is that? Eskimos? If it is so easy to "install and keep in power" why don't we try it on Israel, KSA, USA, China etc etc.

 

[Enigma_]

True. And whose failure is that? Eskimos? If it is so easy to "install and keep in power" why don't we try it on Israel, KSA, USA, China etc etc.

Oh it is our failure no doubt. But we're not exactly a stable state - we never have been. Also it isn't easy for us, a single unstable state but it isn't too hard for the greatest superpower the world has ever seen combined with Indian and Zionist help.