Pakistan lost much in relationship with USA

[Kabira]

As I keep saying unequivocally, both Pakistan and USA have equal rights to pursue only those policies that serve their respective national interests, and all the consequences of such policies too.



Oh everyone gets it, but not many can admit it, since blaming someone else is far easier than accepting responsibility where it rightfully belongs. I wonder if any COAS (or PM) in Pakistan's history has had the equivalent plaque of "The Buck Stops Here!" on their desk like Truman did (it is still displayed in his library).

Chenghezi aka Chenghez khan ki aulaad we get it, US can do no wrong. Your *** kissing posts while being 2nd class citizen of uSA are getting old.

 

[VCheng]

What choices?


Every little thing goes against US national interests. We can't import gas, we can't have good relations with Iran, China, Russia. We have to live in poverty so that we can easily be bought. And a hundred different things. They want India as a regional hegemon and thats the last thing Pakistan would want to happen. The only role they can play in our region is of a spoiler, i think its in our national interests to make them eff off from our region.

Every nation tries to align its national interests with those of others as best as it can where possible, and go in opposition where such alignments are not possible. For example. Pakistan does have a great relationship with China, so your claims are not exactly robust.

 

[Kabira]

I'll give you nuclear weapons. It is about the only decision we made as a sovereign nation. And recently CPEC. There's not much else. And it isn't just monkey politicians but our entire awaam is to blame.

Problem is there isn’t check and balances when ever generals take any decision. Both times generals were in bed with Amercans, in 80’s and in 00’s again.

Civilian leader think twice, see how Pakistan said NO to send troops in Yemen.

generals ko kutte ka patta palana chaye

But politicians are corrupt as well, just more scared of consequences at the same time.

 

[Enigma_]

Problem is there isn’t check and balances when ever generals take any decision. Both times generals were in bed with Amercans, in 80’s and in 00’s again.

Civilian leader think twice, see how Pakistan said NO to send troops in Yemen.

generals ko kutte ka patta palana chaye

But politicians are corrupt as well, just more scared of consequences at the same time.

Our civilian and military sections are both corrupt. In other words the entire country is corrupt. Which can only happen when the Awaam is corrupt. All of them are sold out to some foreign power. ALL of them. I agree with the Yemen decision that was good going by the civilian government (excl. Nawaz).

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The fact is the cause and the remedy lies squarely at home. As long as Pakistani public allow such a elite to lord over them this will continue. I was terribly disappointed over Raheel Sharif being bought out as pet poodle by KSA. But this is accepted and done thing. We have people in this very thread up in arms about USA. But think for a second. MBS of Saudia Arabia is a fully paid Trump acolyte. We saw how Trump chose to make KSA the first point of his foreign destination once he became President. We saw how MBS then rewarded Trump with $100 billion defence contract. This should leave no doubt that KSA and USA are two faces of the same coin. Yet right now as we 'speak' I read this on The Tribune Newspaper -

"The huddle, which reportedly stretched over five hours, was also attended by Maryam Nawaz, a close confidante of the ruling family of UAE and Chaudhry Munir, the father-in-law of Maryam’s daughter.

Meanwhile, sources close to Punjab Chief Minister Shehbaz Sharif claimed that one of close friends of the Sharif family, Sheikh Saeed had played a key role in making his visit to Saudi Arabia possible through his contact with Saudi Arabia’s ambassador to the US.


The meetings in Riyadh will likely focus on the woes of Sharif family and the possible role the Saudi royals could play in creating a common ground between them and the military establishment."

Reading this makes want to puke. So a sovereign nation, so called nuclear power, of 200 million people, so called democracy is being "managed" by a representative of the Saudi and UAE royal families. We might as well let MBS rule Pakistan.

Yet the joke is I never hear British, American or even GCC elites/public rant on about "sovereignty. There is a Turkish member here - Xenon who has as signature a quote from Kemal Ataturk ~ "sovereignty is not given but is taken".


https://tribune.com.pk/story/159610...-avoid-confrontation-military-jati-umra-meet/

 

[Enigma_]

Reading this makes want to puke. So a sovereign nation, so called nuclear power, of 200 million people, so called democracy is being "managed" by a representative of the Saudi and UAE royal families. We might as well let MBS rule Pakistan.


https://tribune.com.pk/story/159610...-avoid-confrontation-military-jati-umra-meet/

It makes any Pakistani with a sane mind puke buddy. You're definitely not alone. But it is wrong to say we are a sovereign nation because ,simply put, we're not.

 

[LeGenD]

@Kaptaan

Spot on, bro. I wish every Pakistani had such wisdom.

Unfortunately, many Pakistani (Fellow brethren) have been misled, thanks in part to political rhetoric and lack of awareness. It is like as if people are being conditioned to blame foreign entities for everything that is wrong in Pakistan. My fear is that this kind of conditioning is very dangerous for us and a major tragedy can ensue due to misunderstandings.

I disapprove of American actions on several fronts but I have not buried my head in the sand. I like to do my homework and I specialize in addressing problems. This is how things move forward.

 

[Sully3]

Yes.
And let's not discount the many benefits Pakistan acquired since 1947 by allying with America. But, now, unless Pakistan dumps China, accept Indian hegemony in the region, Pakistan, for the foreseeable future, will only drift away from America. China must help Pakistan more and more. It's in mutual interests.

China has done more for the softy of Pakistan then America has ever.

Its time to ditch the old guard, relationship for both parties isn't working its time to walk away.

 

[cloud4000]

Chenghezi aka Chenghez khan ki aulaad we get it, US can do no wrong. Your *** kissing posts while being 2nd class citizen of uSA are getting old.

It's getting old because it's true. Pakistan saw every positive overture by US as an opportunity. Pakistan had many chances to say no. Zia and Musharraf both could've sent the US packing, but decided to their bidding and bank some benefits.

 

[VCheng]

It's getting old because it's true. Pakistan saw every positive overture by US as an opportunity. Pakistan had many chances to say no. Zia and Musharraf both could've sent the US packing, but decided to their bidding and bank some benefits.

Pakistan has taken good advantages from its relationship with USA in good times, it must be admitted. But every relationship has its ups and downs.

 

[LeGenD]

China has done more for the softy of Pakistan then America has ever.

Its time to ditch the old guard, relationship for both parties isn't working its time to walk away.

Bro,

We cannot ditch due to pressures of "globalization." Diplomatic efforts are a continuous project and we have failed spectacularly in this spectrum vis-a-vis US. Look at India on the other hand; they are not only good in formulating networks and lobbying but PM Modi had productive engagements with American entrepreneurs and POTUS Trump.

Now compare that to Pakistani diplomatic efforts. Pathetic.

One of the posts of @Kaptaan carry a powerful hint that many continue to miss (post no. 25 in page 2). Pak - US relations can only be fixed through public-to-public engagement dynamics.

Problem is that Pakistani awaam is too trusting of the ELITES in regards to keeping their interests at heart! Bad idea. These very ELITES care about their own interests, not that of the state.

 

[cocomo]

Pakistan does have a great relationship with China, so your claims are not exactly robust.

Pakistan does have but it can't have good relations with China/Iran/Russia according to American national interests. Do not twist my words. The bottom line is they hate Muslims and Muslims hate them, we should ally with all their enemies. They are a dying empire, there is no point getting on a sinking ship.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

It is like as if people are being conditioned to blame foreign entities for everything that is wrong in Pakistan. My fear is that this kind of conditioning is very dangerous for us and a major tragedy can ensue due to misunderstandings.

That conditioning was done by design. It was the ruling elite right soon after Pakistan came into being that began this "conditioning". One of the major planks of this conditioning was using religion as a tool to whip the masses and inducing them into a state of intellectual comatose. PM Liaquat Khan introduced the Objective Resolution thereby injecting a potent dose of opiods into the national polity. Mullahs who had opposed Pakistan as "Napak" like Maudoodi were allowed into Pakistan and soon became the peddlers of hate and obscurantism. They helped to put to sleep the masses of Pakistan. That continued to the present.

The general formale is ~ inject Islam, public become trapped in the never ending religious schisms and arguments, blame evrerything on the West, or failing that on "hidden hand", encorage crazy conspiracy theories. All this keeps the gullible masses sedated or drowing in their own ignorance. Anything goes wrong point fingers outside.

All the while make more money, loads of money, dollars, dollars to be shifted to offshore accounts !

 

[VCheng]

Pakistan does have but it can't have good relations with China/Iran/Russia according to American national interests. Do not twist my words. The bottom line is they hate Muslims and Muslims hate them, we should ally with all their enemies. They are a dying empire, there is no point getting on a sinking ship.

There is nothing stopping Pakistan from pursuing policies that benefit its national interests. What others do will benefit them, it is only logical.

 

[cloud4000]

Problem is that Pakistani awaam is true trusting of the ELITES in regards to keeping their interests at heart! Bad idea. These very ELITES care about their own interests, not that of the state.

What about the military? Do they keep the awam's interest in mind given that military dictators have given more to US than civilians?