Pakistan Keen To Purchase F-16 Fleet From Norway: Mukhtar

[Luftwaffe]

1st of all the news is just high boosting or say cosmetic praising pak norway friendship. Norway never supply weapons to unstable and dictorship govt, thats their policy . As everybody knows GOP is just 4 name sake,every shots is from pak army. No offence
2> Norwegian govt is in no mood to face strong de marche by GOI on mumbai attack ,c'mon do you think they going to spell bombay instead of mumbai , so its all cooked by pakistani media.
3> they snubbing chancellor merkal for her comment ? Oh!hahahaha

i think none of the members in this thread ever been in oslo ? Well i wuz in tores 3months back and you know people their don't even heard about where is bombay but they do know where is mumbai.

If Pak Army was in control of the Govt you would not have witnessed so much of public anger at the current Govt never the less its a democratically elected Govt of Pakistan.

take a glace back the number of major bombings took place in Pakistan but has not been given coverage on International media, mumbai attack its nothing. And No The Western Govt has been laughing at india see how many leaks have covered across the globe even Singapore showed its finger to india. So stop trying to get attention when no body gives a damn about it.

Lastly does the thread topic bother you It surely does so why don't you take a leave.

 

[araz]

F-16 MLU 3-4 etc are pretty much the same as block 52+ in terms of technology so PAF is looking for a cost effective solution to full fill the roles of another batch of new F-16s that they originally wanted.
If these F-16s are delivered within 2 years under 5 million dollars unit price I think it may be a good deal along with MLU.

Growler.
It is precisely the time frame of delivery which makes this news so unreliable. If they can get something in the next 2-3 yrs, it would mean they have disbanded squadrens which they want to sell. These would be Bl5-10s for which we will have little use. If they have bl 15s disbanded and MLUed, then consider the price per unit of MLU kit which we have paid. I dont see upgraded aircrafts going for less than 15 -20 million, as the MLU kit alone would be 12 million odd$.
The question in my mind is whether it is worth waiting for 5-8 yrs and then buy these birds. Idont think so.
The only thing that comes to my mind is PAF playing some game with someone to ensure and make people aware that it has other options up its sleeve if they do not deliver.
Its my view point . thats all.
Araz

 

[alam.saquiba]

Forgive me sir, But i havent started it, Nor do I know who did it, But When I joined this thread, LCA had already landed....

Now its time, It must take off.... @topic: I don see any benefit in buying old aircraft. you can run second hand tank or ship, second hand fighter is bad deal... Sri lanka got some MiG23 @ 2mil USD each, they lost few....

Land or sea base machines are less prone to accident. Better Pakistan invest in MiG33 and LAVI, these two platform can be dangerous once upgraded...

 

[alam.saquiba]

This is what I got from Internet....

The aging F-16AM fighter will be replaced from 2016. On 20 November 2008, the prime minister of Norway Jens Stoltenberg announced that the F-35 was the only fighter fulfilling all the Norwegian requirements and thus the preferred choice .

If (only if) F35 will be delivered to Norway, it will sell its F16, Delay in F35 delivery will delay F16 delivery to buyer...

 

[niaz]

There is everything going for F-16. PAF has had about 20 years operating experience with F-16 and know just about everything that F-16 can or cannot do. We also have trained ground staff (IMO as important as the pilots). This gives us the capability to maintain the aircraft flying despite its age.

Turkey has been manufacturing F-16 for a while, thus PAF would be able to get spare parts in case of US sanctions. Besides, if we can accumulate sufficient numbers of used F-16’s; these can be cannibalized in emergency.

All of the above is in addition to the fact the F-16 is still a formidable multirole aircraft in any environment. F-7 is essentially a late 50’s /early 60’s aircraft and still in our inventory. Why can't F-16 be in the PAF service for another 20 years?

I pray all honorable members to realize that Pakistan has very limited resources and the way to go is to ‘Optimize’ whatever we have or can get. This doesn’t mean that PAF must go for state of the art, what it implies is that PAF must get a mix of the the new and old
aircraft which is best suited to Pakistan’s requirement within the financial, manpower and political constraints.

For example we have been looking at the possibility of acquiring Grippen for the last ten years but couldn’t get them due to US sanctions even if we had the funds. Is everyone certain that we would be able to get Eurofigter?

Even if we could get it, how many could we we afford and what would be the time frame before we can get the proficiency in its use as we have with the F-16? Does Typhoon has enough edge over
F-16 MLU in Pakistan’s perceived threat environment to justify its cost and lesser numbers?

Quantity does matter and an optimal mix of quality and quantity is the name of the game. PAF planners know their job and IMO any criticism without having the info available to PAF planners is grossly unfair.

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan and Norway strengthen ties with eye on joint ventures, F-16 sales

14-Dec-2010 JDIN

Pakistan and Norway have agreed to enhance defence collaboration in a move that could result in Islamabad purchasing surplus Norwegian F-16 Fighting Falcons aircraft, ...

 

[Tajdar adil]

Yeah this is realy good news. can any one tell me that how many planes selse to Pakistan.when that planes delived to Pakistan.

 

[Luftwaffe]

niaz..a thought provoking post, thankyou.

Folks have to realize Vipers are the fear of our neighbor, more Vipers more trouble. The quality and performance of American War Machines are exceptional. If our Mirages ROSE upgrades are still going strong I believe these F-16 Vipers are exceptionally well maintained by Norwegian Air Force. We must not let these Airframes go and if we get our hands on them then to some extend we can repair Mirage 2000 saga..
Members should read this.
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article12.html

 

[SMC]

If we are getting them in 2016 then what's the point. We will have FC-20s and a lot of JF-17s by then. If we were getting them in, say, 2011 or 2012 then it might make sense.

 

[Luftwaffe]

If we are getting them in 2016 then what's the point. We will have FC-20s and a lot of JF-17s by then. If we were getting them in, say, 2011 or 2012 then it might make sense.

The point is quality war machines at reasonable price exceeding performance.

Remember Pakistan bought libyan/australian/french Mirages III/V in mids of 90's while they were already 22+ years old.

End Note: We've to acknowledge there is nothing better than American Upgrades and Weapons.

 

[jamal18]

I think price and delivery date are the critical factors.

They are different from the mirages because we had a mirage rebuild plant built by the french, we don't have the same rebuild capability with th f-16.

 

[araz]

There is everything going for F-16. PAF has had about 20 years operating experience with F-16 and know just about everything that F-16 can or cannot do. We also have trained ground staff (IMO as important as the pilots). This gives us the capability to maintain the aircraft flying despite its age.

Turkey has been manufacturing F-16 for a while, thus PAF would be able to get spare parts in case of US sanctions. Besides, if we can accumulate sufficient numbers of used F-16’s; these can be cannibalized in emergency.

All of the above is in addition to the fact the F-16 is still a formidable multirole aircraft in any environment. F-7 is essentially a late 50’s /early 60’s aircraft and still in our inventory. Why can't F-16 be in the PAF service for another 20 years?

I pray all honorable members to realize that Pakistan has very limited resources and the way to go is to ‘Optimize’ whatever we have or can get. This doesn’t mean that PAF must go for state of the art, what it implies is that PAF must get a mix of the the new and old
aircraft which is best suited to Pakistan’s requirement within the financial, manpower and political constraints.

For example we have been looking at the possibility of acquiring Grippen for the last ten years but couldn’t get them due to US sanctions even if we had the funds. Is everyone certain that we would be able to get Eurofigter?
.
Even if we could get it, how many could we we afford and what would be the time frame before we can get the proficiency in its use as we have with the F-16? Does Typhoon has enough edge over
F-16 MLU in Pakistan’s perceived threat environment to justify its cost and lesser numbers?

Quantity does matter and an optimal mix of quality and quantity is the name of the game. PAF planners know their job and IMO any criticism without having the info available to PAF planners is grossly unfair.

Niaz Saheb
No one here is totally in the know. We all come here to discuss options that we think might be more suitable for PAF. No one would deny the efficacy of F16s pre 2020. However there does not appear to be a credible date for acqisition and given the time frame for F35 distribution it could be well past 2015-18. Then they would neeed to be checked out perhaps by LM which might mean a further delay of upto a year. So in short we are looking at getting F16s in 2020.
The point of contention is not what they will provide, but what we can produce in house and with Chinese help in the same period.I know we have been dissuaded from buying western avionics and weaponery due to cost and quality considerations and have turned to the chinese products. Now when we feel that J10 is going to be a good product with 3-5 yrs development, and the engine issues would be resolved, and our own product would have advanced sufficiently, what will we get from MLUed F16s that we cant get from these 2 options.
The third consideration is purely strategic. No one amongst us will deny that US attention span post 2014 towards pakistan would vary from mild interest to fickle at best. Now we have reduced an order of new planes to go for an equivalent chinese offer, and then we will go for MLUed Bl15s in that time period.This is what is confusing me.
Lastly is a mute point about our own industry which we should be projecting. What signals are we sending to the world when while on the one hand we are trying to go from pillar to post trying to sell the aircraft and then begging Norway for their retired planes. We should have enough confidence in our own industry to produce and develop our own plane to matching quality,considering we have long since been harping about the fact that our thunder is in the region of a Bl40 capability wise.
It is on the basis of the above thought process that I have put my arguments against this purchase.
Araz

 

[araz]

If we are getting them in 2016 then what's the point. We will have FC-20s and a lot of JF-17s by then. If we were getting them in, say, 2011 or 2012 then it might make sense.

The point is quality war machines at reasonable price exceeding performance.

Remember Pakistan bought libyan/australian/french Mirages III/V in mids of 90's while they were already 22+ years old.

End Note: We've to acknowledge there is nothing better than American Upgrades and Weapons.

In the 90s we did not have much of a choice, we tried to get the gripen and were turned down, the M2K deal was scupperred due to malicious intereference from the governing party.We did not have much of a choice but to avail the best option that presented itself to us.The situation post JFTand J10 is quite different
Araz

 

[alam.saquiba]

I pray all honorable members to realize that Pakistan has very limited resources and the way to go is to ‘Optimize’ whatever we have or can get. This doesn’t mean that PAF must go for state of the art, what it implies is that PAF must get a mix of the the new and old
aircraft which is best suited to Pakistan’s requirement within the financial, manpower and political constraints.

What is the need to buy it??? China is frnd of Pakistan, Afghanistan is weak enough to attack, If Iran attack USA will take care of, Turkmenistan and other will never attack you...


All border dispute with India is solved. (P.S. Kashmir is not border dispute)..To save Pakistan from India You have enough Nuke (5-10 times more than indian nuke (i read this somewhere in PDF)

I think Investing on Costly machines are just waste of money, Better Pakistan Invest heavily in Local infrastructure and Stopping terrorism (Both Good and Bad Taliban)

Oh! I forgot Israel, India will help you (In UN) If Israel attacks Pakistan...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

What is the need to buy it??? China is frnd of Pakistan, Afghanistan is weak enough to attack, If Iran attack USA will take care of, Turkmenistan and other will never attack you...


All border dispute with India is solved. (P.S. Kashmir is not border dispute)..To save Pakistan from India You have enough Nuke (5-10 times more than indian nuke (i read this somewhere in PDF)

I think Investing on Costly machines are just waste of money, Better Pakistan Invest heavily in Local infrastructure and Stopping terrorism (Both Good and Bad Taliban)

Oh! I forgot Israel, India will help you (In UN) If Israel attacks Pakistan...

thanks for the analysis and your offer of support so kind of you.. but why is India spending so much on weapons then?
problems with Pakistan are resolved (as you put it)
Bangladesh, Sirilanka, Nepal, Burma & Bhutan are in the back pocket
you are conducting exercises and meetings with China over the border.
so why this craze to amass so much military hardwere? are you preparing of Maha Yudh" with the whole world?