Pakistan-Iran-Turkey confederation

[muse]

Anyone remember the US supported RCD?

Confederations, seems to me, is more of a emotional issue, a sort of reflection of "affinity" - but it's very difficult to see how and indeed why, such a confederation is necessary or wanted by majorities in all three countries.

 

[TheStrantrunCurve]

Yes, i remember RCD was created to act as a bulwark against soviets but mullah iran would never agree to any future Confederation

 

[Developereo]

This idea of unification between Iran, Turkey and Pakistan (whatever unification means) is pretty ridiculous for the following reasons:

1) Iran and Turkey have a lot of issues to resolve (Kurdish issue, Iran's support for Armenia, Turkey's negative role in iran, Iran's negative role in Turkey etc...)

2) Iran and Pakistan have two very different religions. No I'm not just talking about Zoroastrianism vs Islam. I'm talking about Shia vs Sunni. A lot of Pakistani sunnis don't want to have anything to do with shias. Similarly Iran is the flag bearer of shia Islam.

3) Iran, Pakistan and Turkey share pretty much nothing. Different languages, cultures, goals, religions, futures, past and present etc...

4) 3 different economies

If Scotland and Estonia can be part of a common union, then Pakistan, Iran and Turkey can also find common ground.

As people have pointed out, such a regional cooperation bloc did exist in the past, so the idea has been around for a while. There will be a whole spectrum of opinions about the concept, and you represent one extreme view. There are others who have been supportive of the idea; it's a matter of educating the people and building consensus.

Oh, and by the way, except for some extremists, most Shias and Sunnis get along just fine everywhere except Iraq, and the issue there is more about the oil wells being in the Shia south, and the ruling elite being the Sunni north.

 

[muse]

you mean a customs union --- confederation seems to be such a emotive word -- we need paradigms that appeal to our reason and our emotions, but primarily our reason, with the emotion part playing back up

 

[TheStrantrunCurve]

If Scotland and Estonia can be part of a common union, then Pakistan, Iran and Turkey can also find common ground.

If you had written that on iranian forum you would have been bombarded with all kinds of racially charged obscenities and derogatory comments. The answer which i get the most from them is pakistanis are too dark to have any relation

 

[Developereo]

you mean a customs union --- confederation seems to be such a emotive word -- we need paradigms that appeal to our reason and our emotions, but primarily our reason, with the emotion part playing back up

Something along the lines of the EU eventually would be nice. We're not talking about forming one country like the US.

If you had written that on iranian forum you would have been bombarded with all kinds of racially charged obscenities and derogatory comments. The answer which i get the most from them is pakistanis are too dark to have any relation

The Iranian forums seem to be dominated by ultra-nationalists.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

This idea of unification between Iran, Turkey and Pakistan (whatever unification means) is pretty ridiculous for the following reasons:

1) Iran and Turkey have a lot of issues to resolve (Kurdish issue, Iran's support for Armenia, Turkey's negative role in iran, Iran's negative role in Turkey etc...)

2) Iran and Pakistan have two very different religions. No I'm not just talking about Zoroastrianism vs Islam. I'm talking about Shia vs Sunni. A lot of Pakistani sunnis don't want to have anything to do with shias. Similarly Iran is the flag bearer of shia Islam.

3) Iran, Pakistan and Turkey share pretty much nothing. Different languages, cultures, goals, religions, futures, past and present etc...

4) 3 different economies...

If you had been living for let's say the last 800 years than the last 25 or whatever your age is, you would cry at the ignorance of that post.

 

[TheStrantrunCurve]

Something along the lines of the EU eventually would be nice. We're not talking about forming one country like the US.


The Iranian forums seem to be dominated by ultra-nationalists.

Its not about ultra-nationalists its about insecurity and jealousy, I have no problem anyone calling me dark and i am proud of whatever skin colour i have, What surprises me the most is not a single irani which i have met in Australia can be classified as white, They all look south indians to me with their brown skin and dark hair and they think they are aryans. I wouldn't want pakistan to have any relation with this despicable nation, wannabe white race

 

[A1Kaid]

If you had written that on iranian forum you would have been bombarded with all kinds of racially charged obscenities and derogatory comments. The answer which i get the most from them is pakistanis are too dark to have any relation

I actually did type that on an Iranian forum and the response to a Pakistan, Turkey and Iran confederation was overall positive! People are thinking pragmatically. Yes, there is a sense of competitive edge between the countries but gloating at another country's misfortune was looked down upon by mature and senior members. The Iranians many senior Iranian members supported the idea of regional cooperation and stronger links between the three. Yes, there are a some rotten ones that would reject the plan due to negative and hateful sentiment, but thats to be expected...

 

[Patriot]

I don't know why Pakistanis come up with such absurd ideas specially this brotherly country thing.No such thing exists.It's all bs taught to Pakistanis at young age in schools.People please wake up.Alliances are for strategic purpose not for brotherly purpose.

 

[Md Akmal]

Anyone remember the US supported RCD?

Confederations, seems to me, is more of a emotional issue, a sort of reflection of "affinity" - but it's very difficult to see how and indeed why, such a confederation is necessary or wanted by majorities in all three countries.

@ I don't think so ? Once RCD was signed by FM Ayub Khan the relationship with USA was bitter. Actually, Defence Pact with USA and Pakistan joining with SEATO and CENTO all were signed in 1955 and 1956 long before Ayub came to power. Once Ayub came to power he continued a good relation with USA. And it was said that in those days 5 x Infantry Divisions expenditures used to borne by USA Govt. After the Korean war of 1953-54 all most all the military hard wares were given to Pakistan. Most of these hard wares were given to East Pakistan due to the proximity of distances. Once the war with Korea was going on there were lot of demand of raw Jutes and jute products and world prices of Jute goods went up. The demand was so high that Pakistan govt was forced to make a separate port at Mongla (Khulna).

@ In the true sense the relation with USA deteriated since 1962 once China attacked India. China requested Pakistan to attack India and take the rest over Kashmir but Ayub did not re-acted as he had a link with USA due to Defense Pact. On the other hand USA requested to Ayub to help India from the hand of China. Ayub reacted in different manner. Soon, USA came to help India. Than Ayub objected that same weapon/armament would be used against Pakistan in case of war with Pakistan. In 1965 war, Ayub requested USA for help as per defence agreement and member of CENTO & SEATO. USA defended that India is not a Communist country rather USA imposed arms embargo on Pakistan & India it rather helped India. Finding no other alternative Ayub tilted towards China. Even USA govt requested Ayub to lease out of St Martin island(East Pakistan) to USA for a military base in order to support for Vietnam War. Ayub did not agreed. In 1968, Ayub even evicted the American Airforce Base stationed at Peshawar. So, CIA and RAW started making a conspiracy how to evict Ayub and made a secret hand with great Sk Mujib(East Pakistan).

@ In those days the economy of Pakistan was booming and it became a "Nomuna"(reference) in the Third World Countries. People used to refer the economy of Pakistan. Soon, Ayub became a leader of the "Third World Countries". Ayub had a good relation with General Park(S.Korea), General Sukarnu (Indonesia), Reza Shah Pahelvi (Iran) beside China. Ayub also made a good relation with USSR. Ayub had a very good relation with the Islamic world. India was in no compare with Pakistan as per as diplomacy is concerned. In those days all the military dictators had a very cordial relation throughout the Third World Countries. Under these circumstances Ayub decided to form RCD(Regional Cooperation for Development). So, USA support to RCD does not arise. It came up at his own force.

 

[HAIDER]

Only person i see who has ability to achieve this economic confederation, is Turkies Erdogan . Turkey can play a vital role in coming days, if Arabs won't take it as nationalist pride, where Ottoman empire rule them and teach them to live in peace.

 

[Developereo]

I don't know why Pakistanis come up with such absurd ideas specially this brotherly country thing.No such thing exists.It's all bs taught to Pakistanis at young age in schools.People please wake up.Alliances are for strategic purpose not for brotherly purpose.

There are more than enough strategic reasons for such a concept. They are listed in the opening post and throughout this thread.

To recap:
- it will solve our Afghanistan 'problem' instantly, since landlocked Afghanistan cannot afford to be pro-India by making enemies of Pakistan.
- it will align ourselves with the only two countries in the Middle East that actually try to stand on their own feet, unlike the clueless Arab states.
- it will make us that much more valuable as an ally to China.
- it will make us that much more resistant to threats of sanctions.
- it will make us more resistant to Saudi meddling and Wahhabi influences.
- it will move Pakistan towards a more moderate form in Islam, able to work with Shias and Sunnis. Despite rhetoric, the Iranian mullahs seem to be more pragmatic than the Saudi Wahhabis.

People should look at it rationally instead of dismissing everything cynically as 'Islamic' this or 'brotherly' that.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

I can't believe how childish you are! Most of you Turks are like this.

See this is the most unprofessional types of writing or arguing, utterly childish. Now Abii you have to remember that TrMhMt does NOT represent Turkey. Quite on the other hand, he is an extreme case of an unstable person who is extreme nationalistic and observes all of Turkey's neighbours as terrorists or terror supporters. Forget TrMhMt and don't listen to his nonsense.

About this issue, I think that our current leaders, that is AKP and Abdullah Gul, have extensive plans for the future of this specific geography. Ahmedinejad is maybe a little unstable and there still are problems in Pakistan concerning terrorism. But as things look now, i think that in 20-30 years we can realize a kind of free-trade zone at least. Because it benefits all our economies. And again, rememebr TrMhMt DOES NOT represent Turkey at all. Turkish people are generally much more kind towards their neighbors, and we have an optimistic view about Iran. The last couple decades before the AKP government there has been propaganda in Turkey which tried to create "A Turks friend is only a Turk" sadly. But slowly we are getting rid of this nonsense mentality inshallah.

 

[TrMhMt]

@Zulkarneyn

Sorry but wasn't Iran helping Pkk terrorists ?? Were not pkk camps in Iran territory and near Tukish border? didnt they organized shia majority towards Ottomans and New Turkiye ? didnt they try to Impose their r3gime to us? Are these all lie ?? Sorry man but you are not represent Turkiye at all. Most of Turkish and Kurdish people do not believe Iran and its regime. We just support current gov. for improving economic ties nothing else.

I say Syria, Iran and Grreece used to help pkk. In fact, they were/are helping. Lets talk about present situation. Now doesnt Iran support Armenia and its so called genocide against us and Azerbaijan ? You cant deny these are all !!! If you deny, it means you are Acem lover .....

Since 1071, Iran is not our brother. We are(Turks and kurds) really kind but it doesnt mean we will forgive Iran. One day Iran will pay back !!! And that day is coming soon .....

Am i extreme nationalist ha ?? " a Turks friend is only a Turk !" ha ? lOl .... I am half kurdish and you say that ? dont be ridiculous any more ....