PAKISTAN - CRADLE OF CIVILIZATIONS

[Shinigami]

i think this has been discussed before. the descendants of IVC live in S India.
Just because IVC is in pak does not make it thiers. ever heard of MIGRATION? in the last 70 years alone that area went through 10s of millions of migrants. now imagine what happened in the last 4000 years

 

[Android]

Don't mind them they are just mad they have to book flights to Pakistan to visit "their ancient civilization".

no we don't have to
http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/217168-ivc-sites-india.html

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Did the Aryans speak Urdu ?

 

[Jackdaws]

The correct term would not be Indian or Pakistan civilization - the correct term would be "Indic Civilization" and yes - it borders the Persian civilization and stretches from present day Pakistan in the west to counties like Laos, Cambodia in the East. It belongs to all of us - no particular country can lay claim to it exclusively. Taxila in Pakistan and Angkor Wat in Cambodia belong to all of us from a civilizational perspective. Just like the Colosseum in Rome belongs to Western Civilization and not Italy alone. It is also wrong to say that there is no Dravidian language in Pakistan. In Pakistan, a language called Brahui exists which is an isolated Dravidian language in the middle of nowhere.

 

[muse]

The sites found in india are mostly insignificant & not authentic. All major/minor sites are in Pakistan 100% authentic.

Lets not play whose is bigger or better - Archeology, Anthropology and joy of discovery is not about nationalism - lets play adult, after all the magnitude of discovery or rather rediscovery, so so vast that all can be accommodated, and should be.

 

[Icewolf]

Pakistan was completely independent of India. It was its own seperate identity since the IVC to the present date.

Probably, during IVC times the present territory of Bharat was regarded as a barbarious place.

 

[muse]

Not another Article.


1.It have been proved beyond anything that IVC shared culture with the people of sub continent. Ancient Shiva and bull seals were found indicating the civilisation was based on hinduism.

2.Another aspect is Pakistanis are vociferous supporters of Aryan theory. That theory implies, that IVC people are mostly dravidians. And Dravidians according to that theory, live in Today's south India. Excaavations in Tamil Nadu and Kerala have found symbols and seals similar to those present in IVC. Many arguements are there, saying people of IVC were tamil speakers, though the world are trying to decipher.

3.Thirdly Vedas were written near river Saraswati from around 2500-1500 BC. So how come a distinct religion culture different from India can exist in that region? There is always no boundary for culture.
As such boundary for IVC cant exactly lie within borders of IVC.


A partly biased article without real facts aimed at consumerism.

Easy guys, why this silly nationalism in the service of science - It is important, the question of which way civilization flowed, but all civilizations, especially those engaged in long distance trade and spread over a vast geography, engage in EXCHANGES other than merely artifacts - lets celebrate and study instead of making claims of exclusivity.

 

[Ayush]

india and pakistan both shared the civilisation.

 

[muse]

india and pakistan both shared the civilisation.

As may have portions of Afghanistan - there is really a lot of work to be done, a lot of study - imagine the leaps in our understanding if we agree that this exclusive stuff is just not for us - our heritages (NOTE THE PLURAL) are complex and we are beyond blessed - but there are tons of unanswered questions.

 

[haviZsultan]

Pakistanis, particularly lar Pashtuns share a lot of history with Afghanistan as well such as Durrani empire. Furthermore there are said to be Turkicised rulers and tribes of such background like the Khiljis (Ghilzai), Ghorids and the Ghaznavis. Pakistani Pashtuns have a major share in almost 70% of all Pashtun history and a great deal of Pakistani history.

The mughal history and Raja dahir history is shared (Raja Dahir was of sindh and there are 8.5% Sindhi hindus here.) between India and Pakistan. Then we have butkara stupa in Swat, Mauryans, Kushans, lots of empires ruled in ancient times as well. So yes we are the cradle of all civilization. May Pakistan live long and prosper

 

[haviZsultan]

@muse there are 3 things that are being used here to make claims of exclusivity here:
1) Geographic boundaries of said ancient nation.
2) Ethnic composition.
3) Religion.

If you look at the world today you will see these are exactly the same things that divide us and almost every war has been fought on the basis of geography (national boundaries and territorial claims), ethnicity and religion.

Proves that humankind can never live at peace and appreciate their history and be willing to share it. On a forum Afghan nationals constantly abused me for linking this history to Pakistan too which they referred to as a historyless, cultureless nation.

Btw @Rajaraja Chola probably got provoked. He is a nonchalant person and one of the better Indian posters.

 

[bronxbull]

I apologize to the pakistanis for Indian members claiming the IVC as ours,i truly believe that the legacy of IVC belongs to Pakistan alone and nobody else.

 

[muse]

@muse . On a forum Afghan nationals constantly abused me for linking this history to Pakistan too which they referred to as a historyless, cultureless nation..

Once you become better acquainted with the what passes for education there, you may want to forgive them - but it's not like we are unfamiliar with lies fed to us as education. See, we really do not have experience as "countries", or Nation States, don't get wrong, we have been collections, loose collections of (fill in the Blanks) - and the Afghan, especially the Republicans and communists (their elites), like in other countries have had to "create" identities - and of course it's easier to hold or bind peoples when a "other" is introduced into the narrative.

BTW - if your library has The Revenge of Geography: What the Map Tells Us About Coming Conflicts and the Battle Against Fate by Robert Kaplan, do read it - you will enjoy it, you may find what he has to say about present day Pakistan, illuminating, especially in relation to arguments about the artificiality of Pakistan

 

[INDIC]

I apologize to the pakistanis for Indian members claiming the IVC as ours,i truly believe that the legacy of IVC belongs to Pakistan alone and nobody else.

I will still claim Indian side of Meluhha.

 

[Ayush]

As may have portions of Afghanistan - there is really a lot of work to be done, a lot of study - imagine the leaps in our understanding if we agree that this exclusive stuff is just not for us - our heritages (NOTE THE PLURAL) are complex and we are beyond blessed - but there are tons of unanswered questions.

true sir.

@muse there are 3 things that are being used here to make claims of exclusivity here:
1) Geographic boundaries of said ancient nation.
2) Ethnic composition.
3) Religion.

If you look at the world today you will see these are exactly the same things that divide us and almost every war has been fought on the basis of geography (national boundaries and territorial claims), ethnicity and religion.

Proves that humankind can never live at peace and appreciate their history and be willing to share it. On a forum Afghan nationals constantly abused me for linking this history to Pakistan too which they referred to as a historyless, cultureless nation.

Btw @Rajaraja Chola probably got provoked. He is a nonchalant person and one of the better Indian posters.

very true.your post as well as what you said about @Rajaraja Chola.