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PAKISTAN - CRADLE OF CIVILIZATIONS

First learn to spell Mughal:rofl:. As for where Mughal Empire belong only one word for you "Lahore". Unfortunately our indepandant country had been merged by your country in that period. So Mughal Empire belongs to both countries not IVC. Pakistan is a gift of Indus.
It seems immature to deplore someone's typos, mate. In your post I notice that you have spelled independent as 'indepandant' and if I were to counter you with a mistake for a mistake then it'd be a fallacy that I'd beg for us not to fall for. Be that as it may, let me state my basic premise here; I argued that the lateral view of history which is the basic premise of the arguments presented here is at best shaky. If we were to somehow prove that the people in ancient times had the same sense of 'nationalism', meaning the divisions based on how we've constructed 'us' and 'them' then and only then can we be sure that the earlier civilizations 'belonged' to either Pakistan or India. Since sticking to unbaised systems of investigation we cannot do so (or I'd invite people to try for at least we shall be doing something productive) we should really be structuring our arguments in some other way.
 
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Modern Egypt ( Arabic name Misr ) is far removed from the ancient civilization on the Nile. Modern Egyptians speak Arabic and are mostly Muslim. The ancient civilization on the Nile did not use Arabic and were not Muslim. Yet everybody accepts that modern Misr is the heir to the ancient Nile civilization. The civilization from the core area was spread as far as modern Sudan.

Ancient Greeks were not Christian unlike the modern Helles and periphery of the civilization was also found in Asia Minor. Just because modern Greeks are followers of the Orthodox Church does not disconnect them from Ancient Greece.

Modern Pakistan and Bharat( both republics ) came into existance in 1947. Prior to that the term 'India' was generic and was a geographic region like Balkans, Scandinavia, Iberia or even possibly Europe.

Before 1947 we had British India which was a British colony constructed by the British. The IVC is centred in Pakistan, Harrapa is in Pakistan. Yes the IVC had spread out from it's homeland in the Indus Valley ( which is another way of saying Pakistan because it provides Pakistan the geographic space ) to adjacent regions in what is now modern India and modern Afghanistan.

I have already covered this subject in detail but the bottom line is modern Pakistan is to Indus what Modern Egypt is to Nile. To all my fellow Pakistani's I say please accept and acknowledge your rich past. You are the products of a story that has unfolded, evolved over millenia in the Indus Valley home of the modern Pashtun, Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi and Kashmiri.

In that time this valley of ours with the mighty Indus forming it's backbone has seen many peoples march into or lands bringing new ideas and new blood all going into creating the amalgam that is Pakistan.

Just to recap -

Mohenjo Daro is in Sindh, Pakistan
Harrappa is in Punjab, Pakistan.
Mehr Garh is in Balochistan Pakistan

Ghandara ( Taxila )is predominantly in Khyber Pakhtunwa ( NWFP ) Pakistan.

And modern Washington in many ways resembles ancient Athens, Rome in the classical architecture with bits borrowed from ancient Egypt like the Washington Obelisk. In addition many terms in modern English are derived from Greek. That does not follow that Americans or English have a claim on Ancient Greece.

That is just bits borrowed by modern British or Americans from Ancient Greece. So if modern Indians use the Swastika as found in Harrapa does not equate in being especial. Modern Indian's are involved in in a 'reverse engineering' history so that they can shoehorn it into their modern reality ... Republic of India.

This is being done at a industrial scale ....... in fact because of the sheer mass of 1.2 billion India which means 100s of millions Indian's floating about on the internet can like a Tsunami swamp sources like Wikipedia and or other media.

That however my dear counytymen cannot change the reality ..... that the centre of gravity of the IVC was and is in the Indus Valley whose soil gave birth to the republic we have today ... Pakistan.

Be proud of that. Envy is best form of flattery ..... and most Indian's as can be seen from their reaction are nothing but envious and it jarrs them that most of the important [substantive] sites of the IVC are in Pakistan.

So I say to my Indian friends we invite you to Mohenjo Daro, Harrapa, Mehr Ghar, Taxila, Ghandara or the place where Panini sat and wrote his famous works.

The only problem is your going to have to apply for a visa from a hoax called "Pakistan". :pakistan:
 
There was no Pakistan and no India of today before 1947.

The egyptian civilization doesn't belongs to Egypt anymore since they all converted. It just happens that relics are there in Egypt. Same with IVC. only the relics remain in Pakistan, the culture lives on in India. End of the story. I bet culture is more important than bricks and stones.
if we are not Egyptians then who is ? people from space ? and because we converted to islam does that mean we are not Egyptian any more
i have seen people from all around the world saying that modern Egyptians are not real Egyptians even if all DNA studies shows that we are the same
jews europeans arabs ethiopians berbers all claim they were the real egyptians and every one has his story but this is the most stupid thing i have ever heard
 
if we are not Egyptians then who is ? people from space ? and because we converted to islam does that mean we are not Egyptian any more
i have seen people from all around the world saying that modern Egyptians are not real Egyptians even if all DNA studies shows that we are the same
jews europeans arabs ethiopians berbers all claim they were the real egyptians and every one has his story but this is the most stupid thing i have ever heard

These same people claim that Pakistanis are not heirs of IVC as they accepted Islam & they are mixed with Arabs/Iranis/Turkish & Central Asians. You search for the sites of IVC such as Moen-jo-daro, Harrappa, Mehr Garh, Taxila etc all you will find in Pakistan.
 
These same people claim that Pakistanis are not heirs of IVC as they accepted Islam & they are mixed with Arabs/Iranis/Turkish & Central Asians. You search for the sites of IVC such as Moen-jo-daro, Harrappa, Mehr Garh, Taxila etc all you will find in Pakistan.
dude how can muhajirs of UP and Bihar claim IVC i mean Indian Sindhis, Punjabis and Gujaratis have much more claim over IVC than muhajirs plus if Aryan Invasion Theory is true which your countrymen support strongly than South Indians especially tamils have much more claim to IVC than either of us
 
dude how can muhajirs of UP and Bihar claim IVC i mean Indian Sindhis, Punjabis and Gujaratis have much more claim over IVC than muhajirs plus if Aryan Invasion Theory is true which your countrymen support strongly than South Indians especially tamils have much more claim to IVC than either of us

indian Sindhis are next to negligible. Plus as a Pakistani it became my history too. IVC doesn't even spread in whole indian Gujarat & Punjab just some western belts whose population too is very few.
 
indian Sindhis are next to negligible. Plus as a Pakistani it became my history too. IVC doesn't even spread in whole indian Gujarat & Punjab just some western belts whose population too is very few.

Sindhi Hindus are a strong community in India.

The sites found in india are mostly insignificant & not authentic. All major/minor sites are in Pakistan 100% authentic.

Not insignificant, Lothal is the principal seaport used for trading with Mesopotamia.
 
Civilizations r not just about some historic sites rather its much more its about their Culture, their Heritage, their Customs & Believes...

All Pak has got is just some ruins of an ancient civilization

END OF THE STORY
 
Civilizations r not just about some historic sites rather its much more its about their Culture, their Heritage, their Customs & Believes...

All Pak has got is just some ruins of an ancient civilization

END OF THE STORY


You have nothing, you don't even have legs to stand on when speaking of ancient civilizations. Pakistan is the home of an ancient civilization, and the indigenous people of Pakistan cherish that ancient history. Go leech on Sri Lankan or Dravidian history.
 
You have nothing, you don't even have legs to stand on when speaking of ancient civilizations. Pakistan is the home of an ancient civilization, and the indigenous people of Pakistan cherish that ancient history. Go leech on Sri Lankan or Dravidian history.

Tell that to the likes of orya maqbool jan and other Islamic types that hog limelight in Pakistan TV shows as Think Tanks. They will thrash you on the TV set. According to them the residents of these lands i.e. Pakistan etc didn't have an cultural achievements "they" (meaning him and other Islamic Pakistanis, he uses the word "hum") brought all the goodies like qawwali, urdu etc etc etc from the lands beyond (he doesn't mention explicitly Arabia though). Few people in tens (not even hundreds speaking on the internet which by the way gives you cover of anonymity) can't showcase this talk as authoritative and official.

How much Pakistani's like Atanz, notorius_eagle etc claim this ancient civ you can never do this in the open in Pakistan and you people know this. This is just a point scoring exercise on PDF, doesn't mean two bits in the real world. So we can have some fun here and then return to our real lives me as and Indian and heir of these ancient civilizations and you as a Muslim civilizational representative.
 
Tell that to the likes of orya maqbool jan and other Islamic types that hog limelight in Pakistan TV shows as Think Tanks. They will thrash you on the TV set. According to them the residents of these lands i.e. Pakistan etc didn't have an cultural achievements "they" (meaning him and other Islamic Pakistanis, he uses the word "hum") brought all the goodies like qawwali, urdu etc etc etc from the lands beyond (he doesn't mention explicitly Arabia though). Few people in tens (not even hundreds speaking on the internet which by the way gives you cover of anonymity) can't showcase this talk as authoritative and official.

How much Pakistani's like Atanz, notorius_eagle etc claim this ancient civ you can never do this in the open in Pakistan and you people know this. This is just a point scoring exercise on PDF, doesn't mean two bits in the real world. So we can have some fun here and then return to our real lives me as and Indian and heir of these ancient civilizations and you as a Muslim civilizational representative.


Doesn't matter what is being said on tv, history is history and the truth lies in that not tv people. I'm sorry you watch too much Pakistani tv shows, probably more than any Pakistani here. Fact is Pakistan is home of an ancient civilization which is an irrefutable fact. People can choose to be delusional if they want that doesn't change the history.
 
Doesn't matter what is being said on tv, history is history and the truth lies in that not tv people. I'm sorry you watch too much Pakistani tv shows, probably more than any Pakistani here. Fact is Pakistan is home of an ancient civilization which is an irrefutable fact. People can choose to be delusional if they want that doesn't change the history.

So what if i watch Pakistani TV shows, have u seen me claiming otherwise ?? If they are good why should i not and particularly when they concern the topic on hand and shows the present thinking among Pakistani's ?? Rather look at them than people who are hypocrites and change their stance at the switch of an eye lid !!!! When it comes to Islamic affairs u are the heirs and representatives of ummah and when it comes to ancient civ's again u want the best !!!

Who are the one's delusional i wouldn't call Mr. Orya maqbool jan as delusional, he has perfect ideas and they don't change like above. I have seen shows where anchors have asked about similarities between Indian and Pakistan cultures and how we are same but most of the panelists have responded by stating that this is poppy **** and "we" (where he means Pakistani's) are Muslims and have come from far away. This is the virulent theme across the board, Mr. Jinnah clearly stated that our cultures, "histories:, hero's, villians etc etc completely differ so we can't stay together by which the partition occured. You just can't have every thing.

You sentence about people being delusional suits all those supporting the idea of Pakistani's being heirs of these ancient civi's on this thread perfectly. Just hold a TV programme with prominent scholars in Pakistan see the result, or at the least show me a Pakistani Text book which states that these civilizations are yours i.e. Pakistani's we can identify who is delusional without any controversy.
 
if we are not Egyptians then who is ? people from space ? and because we converted to islam does that mean we are not Egyptian any more
i have seen people from all around the world saying that modern Egyptians are not real Egyptians even if all DNA studies shows that we are the same
jews europeans arabs ethiopians berbers all claim they were the real egyptians and every one has his story but this is the most stupid thing i have ever heard

These Indians are psychotic, by their logic Italians cannot claim Rome since Romans were once Pagan, Greeks cannot claim Athens or sparta since they were once polytheists, and Iraqis cannot claim Mesopotamia. Don't mind them they are just mad they have to book flights to Pakistan to visit "their ancient civilization". :lol:
 
So what if i watch Pakistani TV shows, have u seen me claiming otherwise ?? If they are good why should i not and particularly when they concern the topic on hand and shows the present thinking among Pakistani's ?? Rather look at them than people who are hypocrites and change their stance at the switch of an eye lid !!!! When it comes to Islamic affairs u are the heirs and representatives of ummah and when it comes to ancient civ's again u want the best !!!

Who are the one's delusional i wouldn't call Mr. Orya maqbool jan as delusional, he has perfect ideas and they don't change like above. I have seen shows where anchors have asked about similarities between Indian and Pakistan cultures and how we are same but most of the panelists have responded by stating that this is poppy **** and "we" (where he means Pakistani's) are Muslims and have come from far away. This is the virulent theme across the board, Mr. Jinnah clearly stated that our cultures, "histories:, hero's, villians etc etc completely differ so we can't stay together by which the partition occured. You just can't have every thing.

You sentence about people being delusional suits all those supporting the idea of Pakistani's being heirs of these ancient civi's on this thread perfectly. Just hold a TV programme with prominent scholars in Pakistan see the result, or at the least show me a Pakistani Text book which states that these civilizations are yours i.e. Pakistani's we can identify who is delusional without any controversy.


Go cry under your bed, you can talk all you want and I'm not even going to bother reading your post, as I consider you to be a nobody low life. Welcome to my ignore list.

You are jealous Pakistan is the home of an ancient civilization and the indigenous people of Pakistan cherish their ancient history. Go and cry hysterically now lol...
 
Go cry under your bed, you can talk all you want and I'm not even going to bother reading your post, as I consider you to be a nobody low life. Welcome to my ignore list.

You are jealous Pakistan is the home of an ancient civilization and the indigenous people of Pakistan cherish their ancient history. Go and cry hysterically now lol...

You got no answers to my questions that is for sure. As many have stated before "Personal attacks are the last resort of the incompetent".
 

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