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Pakistan - Bangladesh reunion

I dont want to offend any member.But i have a wish like most of 170 million Pakistanis to unite with Bengladesh.Cant it happen?
In england it happened,Germany it happened and there are lots of other examples why not here?
But i think the main reasons that need to be adressed and there solutions:
1)Pm or president should be from bengladesh state?
2 capitals Islamabad and Dhaka
2)east pakistani pm or president should stay in islamabad and west should stay in dhaka
3)Army of east pakistan should not be disbanded but uniform of all army from east and west should be changed to a new patern
4)Autonomy given to bengladesh
5)BAF should be upgraded and modernised with JF17s with latest wetern upgrades and new jets like FC-20 should be stationed in bengladesh under PAF wing of bengladesh
6)Alkhalid,saad,Ifvs and others should be given to BA to modernise it(Under supervision of COAS of PAK ARMY who should be from bengladesh or pakistan and should be chosen by entire army.
7)Upgrade of navy....we would have more ports and more ships...
8)New ordinance factories in east pakistan.....both heavy and light
9)PAC and Kamra should open new complexes in dhaka or chitagong
10)Everything should be shared with every state on population and other bases.
11)Begladesh should keep its flag if it want(as a state flag) just like in usa or england states have there own flags.
12)Let by gone be by gones respect should be given to every soldier who sacrificed his life on both side may he be from bengal or pakistan.
Can it work?

Neither all muslims believe in Muslim ummah nor wish for greater islamic strength. Unlike pakistani, a segment of bangladeshi population inspired by hindu culture. I call them low quality muslim. It's not worth it for you to unite with us rather build stronger pakistan that some of us bangladeshi still admire. Bangladesh is lost case unless Allah save us from mushrik ispired Awami leauge.
 
Robbie, its a lost cause. You chose to look at similarities, someone else choses to look at differences. If one only wants to look at differences, then every country will have to be split into hundreds, but then we ARE different today after 60 years of different nurture.

North and South koreans after decades of nurture are very different toda, even though ethnically the same.

On topic, i don't think its possible for pakistan and bangladesh to reunite, not until pakistani punjabis get off their racial superiority horse.
 
Robbie, its a lost cause. You chose to look at similarities, someone else choses to look at differences. If one only wants to look at differences, then every country will have to be split into hundreds, but then we ARE different today after 60 years of different nurture.

North and South koreans after decades of nurture are very different toda, even though ethnically the same.

On topic, i don't think its possible for pakistan and bangladesh to reunite, not until pakistani punjabis get off their racial superiority horse.

I guess so brother. I kind of understand why its so hard for Pakistanis in general to grasp that we lived together for a thousand years, peacefully and that we shared a common culture for muvh longer than that. I guess if they believe that then the two-nation theory, which is the basis of their nation would in a way will be defeated. They won't be able to justify a separate state for Muslims of the sub-continent in 1947 if its proved that we were all one nation to begin with.

But I dont resent that. What is done is done. We should look forward and I believe our similarities can play a far more constructive role in relations between the two countries than our differences.
 
I guess so brother. I kind of understand why its so hard for Pakistanis in general to grasp that we lived together for a thousand years, peacefully and that we shared a common culture for muvh longer than that. I guess if they believe that then the two-nation theory, which is the basis of their nation would in a way will be defeated. They won't be able to justify a separate state for Muslims of the sub-continent in 1947 if its proved that we were all one nation to begin with.

But I dont resent that. What is done is done. We should look forward and I believe our similarities can play a far more constructive role in relations between the two countries than our differences.


Oh please keep your outdated opinion about two nation theory to yourself. We are realy thankful to be separated from India.

By looking at the condition of Muslims in India we are more gratful that our elders have got a separate homeland for us.

As far as common culture is concerned Look Within India even areas included in today's India dont have a common culture.

Today South Indians curse the north and dont even adopt Hindi for even speaking, the rest is a long debate.
 
By looking at the condition of Muslims in India we are more gratful that our elders have got a separate homeland for us.
.

I think we Indians should thank you guys for asking for a partition in that regard. Atleast Asim Premji would agree with me.
 
Oh please keep your outdated opinion about two nation theory to yourself. We are realy thankful to be separated from India.

By looking at the condition of Muslims in India we are more gratful that our elders have got a separate homeland for us.

As far as common culture is concerned Look Within India even areas included in today's India dont have a common culture.

Today South Indians curse the north and dont even adopt Hindi for even speaking, the rest is a long debate.

Relax girl. This is a forum and I will surely post my out-dated opinions. Report me if you don't like it.

Good for you if you think Muslims in India are worse off than you. And you shouldn't even worry about them anyhow. They are Indian citizens. We have people like GB and EjazR as their voice on this forum, so you can sleep in peace.

Read my posts again, if anything I myself provided examples of different ethnicity and languages but the same culture in diffrent parts of India. Not my problem if your intellect can't grasp the difference.

I bet you know a lot of South Indians, even more than somebody like me who spent many years in India.
 
I think we Indians should thank you guys for asking for a partition in that regard. Atleast Asim Premji would agree with me.

Then better look into your country instead of trying hard to convince the world by blaming partition for all of your ills.

Those Muslims who opted to stay in India instead of joining Pakistan should have been given more respect by Indians but alas you guys are punishing them for their loyalities towards India.
 
Relax girl. This is a forum and I will surely post my out-dated opinions. Report me if you don't like it.

Good for you if you think Muslims in India are worse off than you. And you shouldn't even worry about them anyhow. They are Indian citizens. We have people like GB and EjazR as their voice on this forum, so you can sleep in peace.

Read my posts again, if anything I myself provided examples of different ethnicity and languages but the same culture in diffrent parts of India. Not my problem if your intellect can't grasp the difference.

I bet you know a lot of South Indians, even more than somebody like me who spent many years in India.


:) nevermind i would not like to post what is going in against Muslims in India as it would be an endless debate.

As far as difference between South and North India if you are unwilling to accept then no one can help it :)
 
Then better look into your country instead of trying hard to convince the world by blaming partition for all of your ills.

Those Muslims who opted to stay in India instead of joining Pakistan should have been given more respect by Indians but alas you guys are punishing them for their loyalities towards India.

Oh yes we are punishing them hard. Infact, we are punishing them so hard that we appointed one as them as the supreme commander of Indian armed forces recently. Another one owns the biggest software company in southasia and the next one got about 3.5 billion fans worldwide. I bet no one in this caliber doesnt exist across the border.

Atleast try to include some logic when u post somethin.:rolleyes:
 
:) nevermind i would not like to post what is going in against Muslims in India as it would be an endless debate.

Much appreciated. And in the same spirit I don't intend to post anything about what happens to minorities in Pakistan. If we can stop our regional thekedari, the place would be much better and amicable.

As far as difference between South and North India if you are unwilling to accept then no one can help it :)

You are good with words Jana but not that good. You mentioned that South Indians hate North Indians in your last post and now you are talking about differences. Of course their are differences but again none of your business!
 
Article In TOI by M J Akbar

Sunday, March 08, 2009

A Flawed Idea

By M J Akbar

Indians and Pakistanis are the same people. Why then have the two nations moved on such divergent arcs over the last six decades? The idea of India is stronger than the Indian, and the idea of Pakistan weaker than the Pakistani. Multi-religious, multi-ethnic, secular, democratic India was an idea that belonged to the future; one-dimensional Pakistan was a concept borrowed from the fears of the past. India has progressed into a modern nation occasionally hampered by backward forces. Pakistan is regressing into a medieval society with a smattering of modern elements.

Pakistan was born out of the wedlock of two inter-related propositions. Its founders argued, without any substantive evidence, that Hindus and Muslims could never live together as equals in a single nation. They imposed a parallel theory, perhaps in an effort to strengthen the argument with an emotive layer, that Islam was in danger on the subcontinent. Pakistan's declared destiny, therefore, was not merely as a refuge for some Indian Muslims, but also a fortress of the faith. This was the rationale for what became known as the "two-nation theory". The British bought the argument, the Congress accepted it reluctantly, the Muslim League exulted.

The Indian state was founded on equality and equity: political equality through democracy, religious equality through secularism, gender equality, and economic equity. Economic equality is a fantasy, but without an equitable economy that works towards the elimination of poverty there cannot be a sustainable state. India, therefore, saw land reforms and the abolition of zamindari. Pakistan has been unable to enforce land reforms. India and Pakistan were alternative models for a nation-state. Time would determine which idea had the legs to reach a modern horizon.

The two strands within Pakistan's DNA began to slowly split its personality. The father of the nation, Mohammed Ali Jinnah, thought he had produced a child in his own image, but his secular prescription was soon suppressed. His ideas were buried at his funeral. His heirs began to concede space to mullahs like Maulana Maudoodi who asked, in essence, that if Pakistan had been created to defend Islam, then who would be its best guardians?

After some debate, the first Constitution in 1956 proclaimed Pakistan as an "Islamic" state. It was an uneasy compromise. No one cared (or dared) to examine what it might mean. The principal institutions of state, and the economy, remained largely in the control of the secular tendency until, through racist prejudice, arrogance and awesome military incompetence it was unable to protect the integrity of the nation. The crisis of 1969-1971, and the second partition of the subcontinent, which created a Muslim-majority Bangladesh out of a Muslim-majority Pakistan, forced Pakistan to introspect deeply about its identity.

Perhaps the last true secularist of this Islamic state was the Western-Oriented-Gentleman Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who came to power in 1971, preached emancipation from poverty and did not mind a spot of whisky in the evening. By the end of his six years in office, he had imposed prohibition. The ground had begun to shift even before the coup that brought Gen Zia to power.

Zia had the answer to his own question: if Islam was the cement of Pakistan, how could you expect the edifice to survive if the cement had been diluted. Islam became the ideology of the state, not as a liberal and liberating influence, but in its Wahabi manifestation: compulsory prayers in government offices, public flogging, the worst form of gender bias in legislation, the conversion of history into anti-Hindu and anti-Indian fantasy, a distorted school curriculum, with "Islamic knowledge" becoming a criterion for selection to academic posts. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan provided the excuse for the adoption of "jihad" as state policy as well as a medley of irregular forces, liberally funded by American and Saudi money. The madrassas became not only the supply factories for irregular soldiers, but also the breeding ground for armed bands that are holding Pakistan hostage today.

If it had been only a question of an individual's excesses Zia's death could have been a swivel moment for the restoration of the pre-Zia era, particularly since his successor was Benazir Bhutto. But in the quarter century since his sudden death by mid-air explosion, no one in Islamabad has had the courage to change the curriculum or challenge the spread of the madrassas. There are now over 20,000 of them, with perhaps two million students, most (not all) of them controlled by extremists. Worse, prompted by thoughtless advice, Benazir engineered the rise of the Taliban and helped it conquer Kabul. The children of Gen Zia are now threatening Islamabad. Sometimes a simple fact can illuminate the nature of a society. During the 2005 earthquake, male students of the Frontier Medical College were stopped by religious fanatics - their elders - from saving girls from the rubble of their school building. The girls were allowed to die rather than be "polluted" by the male touch. This would be inconceivable in India.

For six decades, power in Pakistan has teetered between military dictatorship and civilian rule. When the credibility of civilians was exhausted the people welcomed the army; when the generals overstayed their welcome, the citizen returned to political parties. Pakistan is facing a dangerous moment, when the credibility of both the military and politicians seems to have ebbed beyond recovery. How long before the poor and the middle classes turn to the theocrats waiting to take over? The state has already handed over a province like Swat to Islamic rule. Men like Baitullah Mehsud, Mangal Bagh and Maulana Faziullah are a very different breed from the mullahs who have already been co-opted and corrupted by the system. They have a supplementary query which resonates with the street and the village after 9/11: why is Pakistan's army fighting America's war against fellow Muslims? Any suggestion that Pakistan might have become a much larger base for terrorists than Afghanistan ever was is met with the usual response, denial.

On the day that terrorists attacked Sri Lankan cricketers, I had a previously arranged speaking engagement at a university in Delhi before largely Muslim students. I began with the suggestion that every Indian Muslim should offer a special, public prayer of thanks to the Almighty Allah for His extraordinary benevolence - for the mercy He had shown by preventing us from ending up in Pakistan in 1947. The suggestion was received with startled amusement, instinctive applause and a palpable sense of sheer relief.
Posted by M J Akbar at 15:08
 
Article In TOI by M J Akbar

Sunday, March 08, 2009

A Flawed Idea

By M J Akbar

Indians and Pakistanis are the same people. Why then have the two nations moved on such divergent arcs over the last six decades? The idea of India is stronger than the Indian, and the idea of Pakistan weaker than the Pakistani. Multi-religious, multi-ethnic, secular, democratic India was an idea that belonged to the future; one-dimensional Pakistan was a concept borrowed from the fears of the past. India has progressed into a modern nation occasionally hampered by backward forces. Pakistan is regressing into a medieval society with a smattering of modern elements.

Pakistan was born out of the wedlock of two inter-related propositions. Its founders argued, without any substantive evidence, that Hindus and Muslims could never live together as equals in a single nation. They imposed a parallel theory, perhaps in an effort to strengthen the argument with an emotive layer, that Islam was in danger on the subcontinent. Pakistan's declared destiny, therefore, was not merely as a refuge for some Indian Muslims, but also a fortress of the faith. This was the rationale for what became known as the "two-nation theory". The British bought the argument, the Congress accepted it reluctantly, the Muslim League exulted.

The Indian state was founded on equality and equity: political equality through democracy, religious equality through secularism, gender equality, and economic equity. Economic equality is a fantasy, but without an equitable economy that works towards the elimination of poverty there cannot be a sustainable state. India, therefore, saw land reforms and the abolition of zamindari. Pakistan has been unable to enforce land reforms. India and Pakistan were alternative models for a nation-state. Time would determine which idea had the legs to reach a modern horizon.

The two strands within Pakistan's DNA began to slowly split its personality. The father of the nation, Mohammed Ali Jinnah, thought he had produced a child in his own image, but his secular prescription was soon suppressed. His ideas were buried at his funeral. His heirs began to concede space to mullahs like Maulana Maudoodi who asked, in essence, that if Pakistan had been created to defend Islam, then who would be its best guardians?

After some debate, the first Constitution in 1956 proclaimed Pakistan as an "Islamic" state. It was an uneasy compromise. No one cared (or dared) to examine what it might mean. The principal institutions of state, and the economy, remained largely in the control of the secular tendency until, through racist prejudice, arrogance and awesome military incompetence it was unable to protect the integrity of the nation. The crisis of 1969-1971, and the second partition of the subcontinent, which created a Muslim-majority Bangladesh out of a Muslim-majority Pakistan, forced Pakistan to introspect deeply about its identity.

Perhaps the last true secularist of this Islamic state was the Western-Oriented-Gentleman Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who came to power in 1971, preached emancipation from poverty and did not mind a spot of whisky in the evening. By the end of his six years in office, he had imposed prohibition. The ground had begun to shift even before the coup that brought Gen Zia to power.

Zia had the answer to his own question: if Islam was the cement of Pakistan, how could you expect the edifice to survive if the cement had been diluted. Islam became the ideology of the state, not as a liberal and liberating influence, but in its Wahabi manifestation: compulsory prayers in government offices, public flogging, the worst form of gender bias in legislation, the conversion of history into anti-Hindu and anti-Indian fantasy, a distorted school curriculum, with "Islamic knowledge" becoming a criterion for selection to academic posts. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan provided the excuse for the adoption of "jihad" as state policy as well as a medley of irregular forces, liberally funded by American and Saudi money. The madrassas became not only the supply factories for irregular soldiers, but also the breeding ground for armed bands that are holding Pakistan hostage today.

If it had been only a question of an individual's excesses Zia's death could have been a swivel moment for the restoration of the pre-Zia era, particularly since his successor was Benazir Bhutto. But in the quarter century since his sudden death by mid-air explosion, no one in Islamabad has had the courage to change the curriculum or challenge the spread of the madrassas. There are now over 20,000 of them, with perhaps two million students, most (not all) of them controlled by extremists. Worse, prompted by thoughtless advice, Benazir engineered the rise of the Taliban and helped it conquer Kabul. The children of Gen Zia are now threatening Islamabad. Sometimes a simple fact can illuminate the nature of a society. During the 2005 earthquake, male students of the Frontier Medical College were stopped by religious fanatics - their elders - from saving girls from the rubble of their school building. The girls were allowed to die rather than be "polluted" by the male touch. This would be inconceivable in India.

For six decades, power in Pakistan has teetered between military dictatorship and civilian rule. When the credibility of civilians was exhausted the people welcomed the army; when the generals overstayed their welcome, the citizen returned to political parties. Pakistan is facing a dangerous moment, when the credibility of both the military and politicians seems to have ebbed beyond recovery. How long before the poor and the middle classes turn to the theocrats waiting to take over? The state has already handed over a province like Swat to Islamic rule. Men like Baitullah Mehsud, Mangal Bagh and Maulana Faziullah are a very different breed from the mullahs who have already been co-opted and corrupted by the system. They have a supplementary query which resonates with the street and the village after 9/11: why is Pakistan's army fighting America's war against fellow Muslims? Any suggestion that Pakistan might have become a much larger base for terrorists than Afghanistan ever was is met with the usual response, denial.

On the day that terrorists attacked Sri Lankan cricketers, I had a previously arranged speaking engagement at a university in Delhi before largely Muslim students. I began with the suggestion that every Indian Muslim should offer a special, public prayer of thanks to the Almighty Allah for His extraordinary benevolence - for the mercy He had shown by preventing us from ending up in Pakistan in 1947. The suggestion was received with startled amusement, instinctive applause and a palpable sense of sheer relief.
Posted by M J Akbar at 15:08

Great article and what timing bro...!
 
On topic, i don't think its possible for pakistan and bangladesh to reunite, not until pakistani punjabis get off their racial superiority horse.

oh please, keep that BS to yourself! Get rid of that caste system in your own country first!
 
not gonna happen.....since beginning they were fierce and proud about their own set of culture and Bengali heritage. It wouldnt work.

And they are seperated from us by long distance, with a not-so-friendly country in between.

We can have strong trade and defence relations with them, and that is fine. To re-unify with Pakistan --it is extremely unlikely.
 
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