Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[CriticalThought]

No, I don't think they are super humans, read my comments in light of the post i responded to.

The AEWACs is prone to the same blind spot as everyone else. MIMO processing of EM signals is a DARPA hard problem. Even with multiple AEWACs you are not assured a 100% accurate picture. If you really understand the second sentence of this post, you will know what I am referring to.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Hi,

Most posters just want to talk---but do not want to create an actual scenario where guns could be used.

When using a gun---just before---you focus on the target that come within your focus---now you are chasing and trying to get behind at and then trying to reduce the distance around 500 meters---and you are about to pull the trigger when you see red hot searing heat all around you before you get obliterated after your aircraft had explode---.

What had happened was when you started to chase that aircraft to line him up for a gun short---the intensity of the chase and the energy required you to keep focus on the target made you oblivious any any threat---you had grown tunnel vision---you had lost your hearing ability during that chase and in the heat of the moment you did not hear the missile lock and missile launch warning coming from the console to your ears---even though the warning were blaring in your ears---the enemy SU30 had locked & launched a volley of 2 bvr missiles at you from a distance---.

In a similar scenario---close to the border---the enemy could launch a SA missile at you---while you chase a gun shot target---.

The TIME that is needed to chase a target---get it in your gun's range lock and shoot is too long in an environment where an enemy can shoot fro 20-30-40 miles away---.

I keep hearing about no scenarios of gun utility, either sir you do not read or ignore or there is a block in imagination.
So now let the time decide as you and your like minded posters will not decide same as us who believe in gun utility are not the designers of the 6th generation fighters

 

[Ultima Thule]

The AEWACs is prone to the same blind spot as everyone else. MIMO processing of EM signals is a DARPA hard problem. Even with multiple AEWACs you are not assured a 100% accurate picture. If you really understand the second sentence of this post, you will know what I am referring to.

And long range ground radars Can able to cover these blind spots @CriticalThought

 

[MastanKhan]

I keep hearing about no scenarios of gun utility, either sir you do not read or ignore or there is a block in imagination.
So now let the time decide as you and your like minded posters will not decide same as us who believe in gun utility are not the designers of the 6th generation fighters

Hi,

time has already decided about the fate of the gun---. There have not been any aircraft shot down in two decades with guns---.

In our primary air to air combat theatre---during the war of air superiority---there will be no gun battles---.

Gun battle means TARGET FIXATION---and time to lock onto the target. Target fixation and time are a death sentence to a pilot---.

This is personal experience---me---myself---I got caught in a "target fixation" mode one time---I do not know how I survived---it was a miracle---.

Now remember where the basic conversation started awhile ago---. An aircraft has used its missiles and coming home and finds a target of opportunity-- I said that the aircraft has no fuel---it needs to go home and prepare for the next sortie---.

A dog fight is a prolonged affair for an aircraft that has already used its missiles and low on fuel---the pilot is tired and drained out---.

 

[CriticalThought]

And long range ground radars Can able to cover these blind spots @CriticalThought

Ground radars are actually notorious for their blind spots. I can post links to research papers which gambit has previously shared as well.

But you are right. A well constructed air defence network, comprising distributed assets in the air and on the surface are needed to defend against any aggressor. But the present discussion is about US air power and their ability to gain situational awareness. And the point is, if you are the defender against USAF, you can use tactics and terrain to take away their advantage, despite them fielding the F-35.

 

[Silicon0000]

Hi,

time has already decided about the fate of the gun---. There have not been any aircraft shot down in two decades with guns---.

In our primary air to air combat theatre---during the war of air superiority---there will be no gun battles---.

Gun battle means TARGET FIXATION---and time to lock onto the target. Target fixation and time are a death sentence to a pilot---.

This is personal experience---me---myself---I got caught in a "target fixation" mode one time---I do not know how I survived---it was a miracle---.

Now remember where the basic conversation started awhile ago---. An aircraft has used its missiles and coming home and finds a target of opportunity-- I said that the aircraft has no fuel---it needs to go home and prepare for the next sortie---.

A dog fight is a prolonged affair for an aircraft that has already used its missiles and low on fuel---the pilot is tired and drained out---.

Best use of Guns could be use of Guns to target low value targets like drone where value of your missile is much more than the target like a quad copter. Although Use of newer generation aircraft in that scenario is also questionable but it could be a possibility.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Best use of Guns could be use of Guns to target low value targets like drone where value of your missile is much more than the target like a quad copter. Although Use of newer generation aircraft in that scenario is also questionable but it could be a possibility.

Shooting low and slow moving targets such as helicopter that you can't get a lock on with your missiles.
Guns also are used against convoys and soft targets.

 

[Raider 21]

What type of aircraft---?

Fighters.

 

[Keysersoze]

Ground radars are actually notorious for their blind spots. I can post links to research papers which gambit has previously shared as well.

But you are right. A well constructed air defence network, comprising distributed assets in the air and on the surface are needed to defend against any aggressor. But the present discussion is about US air power and their ability to gain situational awareness. And the point is, if you are the defender against USAF, you can use tactics and terrain to take away their advantage, despite them fielding the F-35.

I think the best answer is to think of this as being the same as defending against burglary. If they want to get in, they will. But the trick is to make it as hard as possible for them.

Hi,

time has already decided about the fate of the gun---. There have not been any aircraft shot down in two decades with guns---.

In our primary air to air combat theatre---during the war of air superiority---there will be no gun battles---.

Gun battle means TARGET FIXATION---and time to lock onto the target. Target fixation and time are a death sentence to a pilot---.

This is personal experience---me---myself---I got caught in a "target fixation" mode one time---I do not know how I survived---it was a miracle---.

Now remember where the basic conversation started awhile ago---. An aircraft has used its missiles and coming home and finds a target of opportunity-- I said that the aircraft has no fuel---it needs to go home and prepare for the next sortie---.

A dog fight is a prolonged affair for an aircraft that has already used its missiles and low on fuel---the pilot is tired and drained out---.

U.S. Air Force major Stuart Nichols explained in a 1998 paper for the Air Command and Staff College.

"The gun is a simple weapon system to employ and maintain," Nichols added. "It cannot be degraded by enemy electronic countermeasures or flare decoys which all help to degrade missile performance. Another significant benefit of using a gun is that it isn’t reliant on the aircraft’s radar system. Radar missiles must work in concert with the aircraft’s radar, which is very susceptible to enemy aircraft maneuver and countermeasures."



The U.S. Air Force has revealed that a ground-based surrogate for a laser weapon system that could protect American fighter jets and other aircraft from incoming threats in the future has successfully shot down multiple air-launched missiles in a test. The service's publicly stated goal is to have a podded prototype system ready for actual flight tests by 2021 and an actual operational capability by the end of the decade.

 

[Apocalypse]

 

[MastanKhan]

hI

What got the controversy started was that the F22 / F35 would not engage in a gun fight---because it took away their technical superiority---and may put them at 50/50 odds.

Then what came next was a fighter after going home after spending its missiles may find a straggler that it may want to shoot down---. And I said no---getting home is more important rather than deviating---.

And that is where it was and then you jumped in head first into the fire---and a couple of other posters as well.

"It is better to shoot at a slower moving target with a missile than a gun---. In a gun shot---you have to get very close to get a shot---you aircraft may have to swallow the debris---missile is expensive---but it is still safe---".

 

[fatman17]

Air Platforms

Pakistan Air Force prepares for arrival of final Block II JF-17 and JF-17B fighter aircraft

Alan Warnes, Kamra - Jane's Defence Weekly

15 May 2019

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One of the latest JF-17 Block II aircraft to come off the production line at PAC Kamra. Source: Alan Warnes

The final three Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) JF-17 Thunder Block II multirole combat aircraft are set to be delivered to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) by late June, the service has told Jane's .

The aircraft are part of an order placed by the PAF in late 2017 for an additional 12 platforms that are currently on the Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF) final assembly line at PAC Kamra. AMF has built more than 100 JF-17s since the first JF-17 (serialled 09-111) was rolled out in November 2009.

Production of the Block III variant is expected to begin later this year PAF Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan told Jane's, adding that the service "will make a decision on one of the two new Chinese AESA [airborne electronically scanned-array] radars we are currently evaluating for these aircraft". He noted that, although supportability and cost will be factors in the decision, the service hopes to have the aircraft operating with the new radar by March 2020.

The Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology's KLJ-7A radar is being marketed by China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC) with air-cooling and liquid-cooling options. The second contender is Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute (LETRI), which offers an air-cooling AESA radar known as the LKF601E.

Meanwhile, the Aircraft Repair Factory (ARF) at PAC Kamra recently completed its first 1,000th hour inspection on the first JF-17. This comes after PAC Kamra and China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (CAC), which co-developed the fighter, worked on two JF-17s each to develop the working procedures.

 

[Keysersoze]

Air Platforms

Pakistan Air Force prepares for arrival of final Block II JF-17 and JF-17B fighter aircraft

Alan Warnes, Kamra - Jane's Defence Weekly

15 May 2019

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RSS


One of the latest JF-17 Block II aircraft to come off the production line at PAC Kamra. Source: Alan Warnes

The final three Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) JF-17 Thunder Block II multirole combat aircraft are set to be delivered to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) by late June, the service has told Jane's .

The aircraft are part of an order placed by the PAF in late 2017 for an additional 12 platforms that are currently on the Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF) final assembly line at PAC Kamra. AMF has built more than 100 JF-17s since the first JF-17 (serialled 09-111) was rolled out in November 2009.

Production of the Block III variant is expected to begin later this year PAF Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan told Jane's, adding that the service "will make a decision on one of the two new Chinese AESA [airborne electronically scanned-array] radars we are currently evaluating for these aircraft". He noted that, although supportability and cost will be factors in the decision, the service hopes to have the aircraft operating with the new radar by March 2020.

The Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology's KLJ-7A radar is being marketed by China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC) with air-cooling and liquid-cooling options. The second contender is Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute (LETRI), which offers an air-cooling AESA radar known as the LKF601E.

Meanwhile, the Aircraft Repair Factory (ARF) at PAC Kamra recently completed its first 1,000th hour inspection on the first JF-17. This comes after PAC Kamra and China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (CAC), which co-developed the fighter, worked on two JF-17s each to develop the working procedures.
View attachment 560120

Probably been mentioned already but that blk 2 seems to have an increase in composite. If you look at the A model above the extra composite panel in the side.

 

[PakShaheen79]

So, Block III production is YET TO START. All the rumors about Block-III flying this year seems incorrect. March 2020 is the time ACM eying and most probably 23rd will be date it will officially fly.

 

[syed_yusuf]

If blk 3 rolling off in August it mush be in assembling face to be rolled out by mid to late August