Pakistan-A real market for the Mirage 2000-9 ?

[Quwa]

If for free, we take. If for money, we no take.

That's all I have to say about this.

 

[SBD-3]

If for free, we take. If for money, we no take.

That's all I have to say about this.

Why would we? when we can manufacture our own plane with our own weapons and Plus we will have to keep the whole support infrastructure alive for a handful of mirages. Plus we will have to argue what Mirage 2000 would offer over our vipers and JFT? In my point of view, PAF should not induce anymore platform unless in significant numbers (60+) and focus on replacing the old fleet with JFT

 

[aliyusuf]

If for free or for less than 5 million a piece, we can get Mirage2K and MiG-29 in small numbers, then we can have our own agrressor squadrons for which we can keep improving our DACT tactics on a steady basis and also we can use these birds in wartime if need be ... would certainly be better than our Mirages and F-7Ps in wartime.

Just a thought.

 

[SQ8]

If it works out - it would partly be financed by Saudi Arabia (Most likely).

@Oscar - Would Black Shaheens (500 rounds) would become surplus, since UAE cannot integrate them on Desert Falcons?
If so, it would be a grab of the decade for PAF.

They might, but the selling point of the Rafale in the UAEAF was the ability for smooth integration of the Black Shaheens. Hence the option given by france for buyback of the existing M2K-9s. The Rafale is possibly what will end up flying in UAEAF colours since the haggle is over price. Qatar seems an almost win for the Rafale and the natural disposing of their Mirages seems to be India.

June 19-23/14: Qatar. Reports continue to predict that Sheikh Tamim Ben Hamad Al-Thani’s visit to Paris on June 23/14 will herald a contract for 36 Rafales, with an option for 36 more. The move would represent the Rafale’s 1st export contract, and a dramatic expansion of Qatar’s fighter force from the current fleet of 12 Mirage 2000s.

With that said, the best source is France’s La Tribune. They cite government sources who are pleased with the progress of negotiations, while cautioning readers about the deal’s complexity, and doubting that the Rafale deal will be signed in Paris. That turns out to be correct: France’s Alstom wins a $2 billion light rail contract, but all a a source close to French President Francois Hollande” will says after ward is: “They discussed it. Negotiations are continuing.”

Qatar is a significant customer for French defense equipment, and their support of the Muslim Brotherhood has given then an anomalous position within the Gulf Arab states. France recently sold them A330 aerial tankers and NH90 helicopters as part of a $23 billion global splurge, and are reportedly negotiating to sell the Emirate VBCI wheeled APCs and FREMM FREDA air defense frigates on top of the Rafales. Sources: La Tribune, “Le Qatar veut le Rafale de Dassault Aviation” | Bloomberg, “Dassault Said to Close in on Rafale Contract to Lift Exports” | Reuters, “France wins Qatar tram deal, discusses Rafale jets”.

 

[Armstrong]

They might, but the selling point of the Rafale in the UAEAF was the ability for smooth integration of the Black Shaheens. Hence the option given by france for buyback of the existing M2K-9s. The Rafale is possibly what will end up flying in UAEAF colours since the haggle is over price. Qatar seems an almost win for the Rafale and the natural disposing of their Mirages seems to be India.

Does that mean that if the Indians go on & acquire the Rafaels we'd know their ins & outs through our secondments to the UAEAF or the Qatari Airforce ?

 

[SQ8]

Does that mean that if the Indians go on & acquire the Rafaels we'd know their ins & outs through our secondments to the UAEAF or the Qatari Airforce ?

Nope, it infers that the Indians will acquire the Rafale and the existing Mirage-2000 pool from Qatar and the UAEAF. And we know much less about the newer systems on the Rafale since the IAF then becomes the secondment provider for the Rafale user group. The PAF gets cut out of the loop and sits with its empty pockets.

 

[Gessler]

I know it will be 25 mill a piece, but take into account the weapons packages PAF have to purchase and avionics packages.
total cost could be anywhere between $2-3 billion. PAF shouldn't go for any other 4th gen platforms then what is already planned.

app. 80 F-16 Block 52 new + MLU
150 JF-17 later blocks too
and FC-20

more then enough for our 4th gen needs. I agree that PAF with Mirage 2000-9s would be a good site but we don't need them or can afford to move money away from JF-17 and FC-20. besides after FC-20 are in service in decent numbers, time will come to search for 5th gen Chinese projects.

edit: possibility future embargoes/sanctions have to be taken into account, not to mention integrating the mirages with AWACS via datalink.

Hi Jungi.

Given the circumstances ( PAF shelves Air Force Development Plan 2025 ), there does not really appear to be any choice other than to mop up all the surplus Arab stocks which would otherwise be on their way out.

It seems pretty much clear now that there isn't gonna be any J-10B/FC-20 in PAF. Only JF-17 blocks will be the "new" acquisitions, the rest of the acquisitions in the fleet is likely to be made of up second-hand F-16s, maybe Mirage-2Ks. This might culminate in the purchase of a new Chinese fighter, probably a version of J-31 or maybe a new, single-engined one based on it, sometime around/after 2020.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

So what?

SO as Sukhoi 35,30,37, PAKFA, F22.

You people have a habit of bringing in non related things to compare. First of all only SU 30 and F-22 are in service and still wayyyy a class apart 2nd SU 35 has been recently inducted in Rus-AF not to mention again another story 3rd why the hell you bring in 37, PAK-FA in their development and trials. Can't you please come up with some relevant and comparable examples. And by the way keep F-22 out of these it's a Proven Platform ... Example is few months back an F-22 comes behind IRAF F-14 without knowing them and told them to go home and they did vice versa ... It's enough to be proven that no one want an F-22 to be it's adversary !!!

 

[Jungibaaz]

Hi Jungi.

Given the circumstances ( PAF shelves Air Force Development Plan 2025 ), there does not really appear to be any choice other than to mop up all the surplus Arab stocks which would otherwise be on their way out.

It seems pretty much clear now that there isn't gonna be any J-10B/FC-20 in PAF. Only JF-17 blocks will be the "new" acquisitions, the rest of the acquisitions in the fleet is likely to be made of up second-hand F-16s, maybe Mirage-2Ks. This might culminate in the purchase of a new Chinese fighter, probably a version of J-31 or maybe a new, single-engined one based on it, sometime around/after 2020.

this post of mine is 3 years old and a lot has changed since then. No FC-20 anymore, but instead the F-16 numbers have been bought up to 76, possibly more soon. JF-17 progress is what PAF is counting on now.

 

[gslv mk3]

You people have a habit of bringing in non related things to compare. First of all only SU 30 and F-22 are in service and still wayyyy a class apart 2nd SU 35 has been recently inducted in Rus-AF not to mention again another story 3rd why the hell you bring in 37, PAK-FA in their development and trials. Can't you please come up with some relevant and comparable examples. And by the way keep F-22 out of these it's a Proven Platform ... Example is few months back an F-22 comes behind IRAF F-14 without knowing them and told them to go home and they did vice versa ... It's enough to be proven that no one want an F-22 to be it's adversary !!!

read the post he quoted,again.

 

[greatone]

Nope, it infers that the Indians will acquire the Rafale and the existing Mirage-2000 pool from Qatar and the UAEAF. And we know much less about the newer systems on the Rafale since the IAF then becomes the secondment provider for the Rafale user group. The PAF gets cut out of the loop and sits with its empty pockets.

Excuse me, what the the meaning of secondment provider ?

 

[SQ8]

Excuse me, what the the meaning of secondment provider ?

Full Definition of SECONDMENT
: the detachment of a person (such as a military officer) from his or her regular organization for temporary assignment elsewhere

 

[Zhukov]

france refused to povide avionics for jf-17 under indian pressure

lolz
Where did that came from?
French Avionics were dropped due to Financial reasons not INDIAN pressure.
Jeez you people are so funny at times.
Icant stop laughing

 

[Basel]

If it works out - it would partly be financed by Saudi Arabia (Most likely).

Why we beg for money from KSA its better to stick with our own resources and if hell break lose ask China to provide Sino Flanker's latest model which will be new + with AESA radar and sanction / spare parts hassle free from west.

M2K9s should only be purchased if we have to fight a war in near future like 2 to 4 year time, if not then it should be avoided and a high end version of JF-17s should be developed to create hi-lo mix of these air crafts and a step forward in self reliance.

lolz
Where did that came from?
French Avionics were dropped due to Financial reasons not INDIAN pressure.
Jeez you people are so funny at times.
Icant stop laughing

Well said, after signing of Rafael deal, India will be in position to make sure that we don't get spare parts and other stuff from France and later had obliged them previously.

 

[he-man]

I also have read that post by @Aeronaut about UAE M2K9s they can be immediate solution to replace aging M3s/5s but in long run don't look good solution as IAF will have more advance M2K5-2 available to them and spares can become an issue too. We are not going for J-10/FC-20 for now then why go for old M2K9s??

Can someone post capabilities what they can add to current fleet which we don't have or have in limited numbers?

Iaf actually will have both pakfa and rafale within next 10-12 years so these are of no concern to us really.

Why we beg for money from KSA its better to stick with our own resources and if hell break lose ask China to provide Sino Flanker's latest model which will be new + with AESA radar and sanction / spare parts hassle free from west.

M2K9s should only be purchased if we have to fight a war in near future like 2 to 4 year time, if not then it should be avoided and a high end version of JF-17s should be developed to create hi-lo mix of these air crafts and a step forward in self reliance.



Well said, after signing of Rafael deal, India will be in position to make sure that we don't get spare parts and other stuff from France and later had obliged them previously.

thats indeed true