Pak-US intelligence ties at ‘lowest level’

[fatman17]

Pak-US intelligence ties at ‘lowest level’

* Senior officials say US does not inform Pakistan even after carrying out drone strikes
* Say CIA has established its own network in FATA and no longer needs Pakistani help

By Iqbal Khattak

PESHAWAR: The US and Pakistan are at the ‘lowest level’ of intelligence-sharing, cooperation and coordination against Al Qaeda and the Taliban in the Tribal Areas, said senior officials on Monday.

“The level of cooperation has gone so low that the US now even does not intimate Pakistan after a drone strike in FATA,” a senior official told Daily Times in a reflection of the two countries’ relations in the background of a growing insurgency in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The official said that the deterioration in intelligence-sharing, cooperation and coordination was gradual. “In (late) 2001, 2002 and 2003, the relations were good, as both sides were sharing intelligence and coordinating attacks against Al Qaeda and the Taliban. At first, cooperation was such that the two countries shared any intelligence any side brought forward. From there, it went down to the level where the US used to intimate Pakistan minutes before carrying out strikes. And then, it dropped to a level at which the US informed Pakistan after carrying out a strike in the Tribal Areas,” said the official.

“Today, the US does not even intimate us about a strike it carries out inside Pakistan … and the reason for this is that the Americans have established their own network of intelligence across FATA and they no longer need their Pakistani counterparts’ help.”

Meanwhile, a senior military commander also acknowledged growing CIA influence in FATA. “I think the US has penetrated militant groups or they are using money,” Frontier Corps chief Maj Gen Tariq Khan told Daily Times. Gen Tariq also confirmed that while the CIA has gained a foothold in the Tribal Areas, Pakistani intelligence agencies have lost ‘considerable ground’.

Over a dozen spies from the Intelligence Bureau and ISI have been killed in the Tribal Areas and settled districts.

The official said, “The selection of targets is also a major bone of contention between the two countries. Who is the US targeting in drone strikes … those who are more interested in transborder jihad instead of [activities on] this side of the border.”

The counter-terrorism official said militant commanders Nek Muhammad, Abdullah Mehsud and Maulvi Nazir were mostly carrying out attacks inside Afghanistan. “So, two of them have already been eliminated and Nazir is lucky to have survived a drone attack [on October 31, 2008].”

But anti-Pakistan militants are allowed to go scot-free, the official charged. “We have given them the location of Baitullah [Mehsud] several times, but the Americans have come up with a different excuse every time.”

A US diplomat laughed at the impression that anti-Pakistan terrorists were the ones least targeted by Washington. “Tell us where he (Baitullah) is,” said the diplomat.

http:///www.dailytimes.com.pk

 

[IceCold]

Meanwhile, a senior military commander also acknowledged growing CIA influence in FATA. “I think the US has penetrated militant groups or they are using money,” Frontier Corps chief Maj Gen Tariq Khan told Daily Times. Gen Tariq also confirmed that while the CIA has gained a foothold in the Tribal Areas, Pakistani intelligence agencies have lost ‘considerable ground’.

Over a dozen spies from the Intelligence Bureau and ISI have been killed in the Tribal Areas and settled districts.

This is very worrisome. Our agency is loosing grounds to a foreign agency, that's bad news. IMO heavy criticism on the ISI from within Pakistan has severely hurt the agencies ability and moreover since CIA was allowed to establish a network there which was one of the biggest blunders i would say of Musharraf era, it is very much likely that the high number of casualties our agencies are suffering is because of the CIA who does not want the area to go out of their influence.
As far as the US now not even informing us about the strikes even after the targets are hit, its high time we shot down a drone. What else would we need to know then this that our ally is actually back stabbing us and will destabilize us to a point where landing US troops inside Pakistan will be called justified.

Wake up people.

 

[jamal18]

The US embassy in pakistan has a massive staff. US personnel move around pakistan doing what they want without any monitoring by the Pakistani security services.

Their number must be curtailed, and their movements controlled.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A US diplomat laughed at the impression that anti-Pakistan terrorists were the ones least targeted by Washington. “Tell us where he (Baitullah) is,” said the diplomat.

That's the point - we did tell the US where he was.

Of course this is the same argument Pakistan makes about allegations of AQ leaders hiding in Pakistan - 'tell us where they are'.

Except that Pakistan has actually arrested several of these leaders, while the US has no clue about the rest and therefore cannot give us any information, or we would act.

 

[Mirage2000]

Is there any possibility of CIA supporting anti Pakistan Taliban to carry out terrorism in Pakistan? deos mehsud has any links with CIA?

 

[PeacefulIndian]

That's the point - we did tell the US where he was.
Of course this is the same argument Pakistan makes about allegations of AQ leaders hiding in Pakistan - 'tell us where they are'.

Except that Pakistan has actually arrested several of these leaders, while the US has no clue about the rest and therefore cannot give us any information, or we would act.

If you know where he is, why don't you take him out yourself?

 

[AchtungSpitfire]

We've learned from our mistakes. Involving the ISI almost always led to the target of opportunity being tipped off. We have heaps of SIGINT that verify that fact. We can't afford to wait for the ISI to get on the same page nor are we going indulge them in their fantasy of not being plagued with Islamist/Anti-Western sympathizers. Not when our GI's are dying.

Trust but verify at the top level and no pussyfooting at the operational level.

 

[Mirage2000]

If you know where he is, why don't you take him out yourself?

I dont know how many times indians have said this BS
We'd have done it if we had drones like americans do.

 

[muse]

When were Pakistan and US intel relations at their best and why?

Casey fighting communists and Islamists fighting communists. Today the Islamists have truned their guns on their friends and masters, this relaization is not accepted in Pakistan - and in Pakistan only -- the entire world knows what the Pakistanis are determined to deny.

Does it make sense in such a situation to ask, friend or foe? you decide.

 

[PeacefulIndian]

I dont know how many times indians have said this BS
We'd have done it if we had drones like americans do.

Drones? My foot!

Till when you expect the world to heed to your pathetic excuse of lack of military apparatus? All you need is a commando team zeroing in on his location. Or a quick surgical air-strike, with whatever kind of aeroplanes you have got.

He lives in Pakistan, you know where he is. What the heck is stopping you? Is it just the lack of will?

 

[Anonyomous Man]

I have said before,saying it again The U.S is not our ally i know this for a fact.
The pakistani taliban are in cahoots with the U.S and before you know it pakistan will become afghanistan where the U.S led coallitions will charge in and kill and torture innocent people under the lable of war on terror.

 

[IceCold]

Drones? My foot!

Till when you expect the world to heed to your pathetic excuse of lack of military apparatus? All you need is a commando team zeroing in on his location. Or a quick surgical air-strike, with whatever kind of aeroplanes you have got.

He lives in Pakistan, you know where he is. What the heck is stopping you? Is it just the lack of will?

You can shove that foot of yours up your ***. Listen genius the time frame required for PA to go there and act and compare that with the time required for a drone to attack, you will find out why Pakistan asked the US to strike on BM's position at the first place. Moreover we did not know then that the US is such a hypocrite and views terrorism that affects itself and others separately. Now that we do, we are searching for the bastard and sooner or latter we will take him out its just a matter of time.

 

[Mirage2000]

Drones? My foot!

Till when you expect the world to heed to your pathetic excuse of lack of military apparatus? All you need is a commando team zeroing in on his location.

Well he is not uprotected he's sheltered by Your Raw and may be mousad and CIA.

Or a quick surgical air-strike, with whatever kind of aeroplanes you have got.

Do you know how much collateral damage the airstrike by our planes will cause? Drones are most approprite for this.You dont care for civillians but we do because they are our citizens.Besides who are you to represent the whole world? and what problem you have on our aquisition of drones?

He lives in Pakistan, you know where he is. What the heck is stopping you? Is it just the lack of will?

Yet again
Lack Of will to kill terrorists=Anti Pakistan Propaganda.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

We've learned from our mistakes. Involving the ISI almost always led to the target of opportunity being tipped off. We have heaps of SIGINT that verify that fact. We can't afford to wait for the ISI to get on the same page nor are we going indulge them in their fantasy of not being plagued with Islamist/Anti-Western sympathizers. Not when our GI's are dying.

Trust but verify at the top level and no pussyfooting at the operational level.

I am not sure about that - I quoted some Petraeus comments in an interview elsewhere where he was asked about the ISI's complicity, and his response was that the US had one unambiguous case of a potential target in a raid by Pakistani SF's being tipped off.

Everything else was based on the fact that the ISI/PA continue to make maintain contacts with some Taliban factions, which is not really something the ISI or PA deny, arguing that such contacts are essential for Intelligence purposes - and Petraeus agreed with that, indicating the US does the same.

There are certain Taliban leaders Pakistan has essentially refused to target (Quetta Shura for example) though it maintains they are limited from actively engaging in the insurgency - but this is an open secret, and the US officials are obviously aware of the situation and why.

So I really do not see any significant evidence to indicate widespread support or 'tipping off' by the ISI of AQ targets.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Drones? My foot!

Till when you expect the world to heed to your pathetic excuse of lack of military apparatus? All you need is a commando team zeroing in on his location. Or a quick surgical air-strike, with whatever kind of aeroplanes you have got.

He lives in Pakistan, you know where he is. What the heck is stopping you? Is it just the lack of will?

Well we don't know where he is. For that matter since the US (according to this article) ostensibly has greater HUMINT in FATA now than the ISI, and the drones, why has it not taken out B Mehsud (5 million bounty)?

Or is the bounty just for show?

This isn't the movies, where you shadow a guy down streets or in a Taxi. You would have to scramble an AC or a SF team who would have to get to the scene, and that would be precious time lost.

The US drones may have already been in the air and in the area.