Pak-US intelligence ties at ‘lowest level’

[muse]

I think we should be tracking the AlJazeera and other media people - they know exactly where he is.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I think we should be tracking the AlJazeera and other media people - they know exactly where he is.

Definitely would be a good idea - Though I wonder if Government's deliberately do not do that in order to prevent future journalists from being targeted or labeled as spies.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Everyone just throws around the supposed tip off on BM's location to US and their refusal to bomb him. isn't it just hearsay and should be stated as such? Why give legitimacy to a theory?

Why was Bugti attacked by air by pakistan but BM's location conveyed to US?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Everyone just throws around the supposed tip off on BM's location to US and their refusal to bomb him. isn't it just hearsay and should be stated as such? Why give legitimacy to a theory?

Why was Bugti attacked by air by pakistan but BM's location conveyed to US?

Actually the 'tip off' has been mentioned by various Pakistani security sources since last year, including Pakistani security officials interviewed by the NYT.

Bugti was not attacked by air, where did you hear that tale?

Bugti was finally surrounded in the mountains holed up in a cave, and the cave collapsed while Army officers were inside trying to negotiate his surrender, killing the Army officers and Bugti and his followers.

But again, Mehsud doesn't drive around openly to where the PA/PAF can just launch attacks against him at will - the US would have gotten him already if that was the case, if not Pakistan.

He is hard to track in a region where there is essentially no GoP writ and the locals are silenced into supporting him through fear or loyalty. Getting a good tip on his whereabouts would be pretty hard, unless he chose to meet you (journalists).

 

[TruthSeeker]

Everyone just throws around the supposed tip off on BM's location to US and their refusal to bomb him. isn't it just hearsay and should be stated as such? Why give legitimacy to a theory?

Why was Bugti attacked by air by pakistan but BM's location conveyed to US?

Not only that, the US could not TRUST that, if "tipped", it was not disinformation designed to create an incident of civilian deaths. Was the ISI and GoP in favor of drone strikes or not. Does any one know? Did the GoP even know its own position on this? How could the US rely on BM location "tips"from the GoP given the outrage being expressed daily to the press by the GoP??

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Not only that, the US could not TRUST that, if "tipped", it was not disinformation designed to create an incident of civilian deaths.

I don't think the US has to worry about 'negative publicity' given the number of civilian casualties already caused through drone attacks.

Its not like opinion of the US isn't rock bottom in the region as it is.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I don't think the US has to worry about 'negative publicity' given the number of civilian casualties already caused through drone attacks.

Its not like opinion of the US isn't rock bottom in the region as it is.

Yeah, but those incidents of civilian deaths were mostly made up, unverifiable. The ISI could engineer a really horrific one for the good ole' USA. Serve them right, bloody Yanks!!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yeah, but those incidents of civilian deaths were mostly made up, unverifiable. The ISI could engineer a really horrific one for the good ole' USA. Serve them right, bloody Yanks!!

I disagree that they were made up - there is a thread here that compiled the statistics of the drone attack casualties, and non-combatant deaths are significant.

It is only recently that the Drone attacks have become more accurate.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Actually the 'tip off' has been mentioned by various Pakistani security sources since last year, including Pakistani security officials interviewed by the NYT.

Bugti was not attacked by air, where did you hear that tale?

Bugti was finally surrounded in the mountains holed up in a cave, and the cave collapsed while Army officers were inside trying to negotiate his surrender, killing the Army officers and Bugti and his followers.

But again, Mehsud doesn't drive around openly to where the PA/PAF can just launch attacks against him at will - the US would have gotten him already if that was the case, if not Pakistan.

He is hard to track in a region where there is essentially no GoP writ and the locals are silenced into supporting him through fear or loyalty. Getting a good tip on his whereabouts would be pretty hard, unless he chose to meet you (journalists).

I know the tip off story, its not confirmed. its still a theory and i've only heard americans dispute it. it can't be taken as fact.

I remember that missiles were fired when bugti died, so i assumed it was an aerial attack. but many sources claimed missiles from helicopter gunships were fired, your story about surrender is new to me.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Unrest after Pakistan rebel death

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Bugti planted the cave with explosives and he refused to surrender and blew the cave while the officers were negotiating with him.

Baitullah Mehsud's lacation has not yet been justified. There for action or an air raid against him is futile as many civilians also surround him.

 

[muse]

an air raid against him is futile as many civilians also surround him.

Perfect example -- "futile" - as they in Iran, the Islamist want the Khurma and the Khar - he wants his cake and eat it too -- he puts himself in the midst of civilians, using them as shields and he is betting that we are confused enough, our sensibility delicate enough, so that we will sustain being black mailed for ever -- Bugti made the same gamble and lost, when will baitullah lose and the Pakistani people win -- You listening out there?

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Yeah, but those incidents of civilian deaths were mostly made up, unverifiable. The ISI could engineer a really horrific one for the good ole' USA. Serve them right, bloody Yanks!!

Doesn't seem like a statement that would come from someone professing to ''seek truth''.

 

[Kasrkin]

Definitely would be a good idea - Though I wonder if Government's deliberately do not do that in order to prevent future journalists from being targeted or labeled as spies.

Frankly, I think it is a good idea and something like this might have happened when Al-Jazeera people were given access to those two kidnapped Chinese engineers in Swat and their hideout was attacked soon after by the Army resulting in one of the hostages escaping. What I can tell you though, is that using journalists or aid-workers in this way is illegal as per international law even against terrorists or in hostage situations. But some governments like the Columbians for instance in a spectacular operation a few days back, ignore the rules and ‘apologize’ to the involved news or humanitarian organization later.

On the other hand, I must take the pains to point out what happened when Bugti, a known terrorist, murderer, extortionist, torturer and insurrectionist was killed while in negotiation...the Army was thoroughly condemned by all the political parties for killing a 'great Pakistani' and there were strikes for a week. Not to mention that ignorant people to this day come to this forum and insist that the Pakistan Army committed a crime by attacking a warlord who’d been waging a violent war against them for years. So yes I want every last one of these degenerates dead, but there will be consequences for any such operation that many of us will find outrageous. This sadly is the reality of public opinion and the shameless politicians and I have not exaggerated any of it one bit.

 

[muse]

Kasrkin

to illustrate that what people really care about is success - the story of Raja Dahir's astrologer asking the Raja to marry his own sister - the raja was shocked at this suggestion, the astroler asked a ram to be brought before them and in the fleece of the ram he put mustard seeds and watered them, soon the mustard seeds began to sprout and people expressed much suprise at the novelty -- but over time, the novelty wore off

The army must make a clear no nonsense case, execute the plan and make zero apology for carrying out it's responsibility, regardless of what some two bit so called democractic politician has to say.

The army knows it's responsibility? Isn't that so? Well if responsibility, read, DUTY, is clear, who cares what the chattering classes have to say. Always it is LEAD and THE WORLD WILL FOLLOW!

 

[RescueRanger]

The title of this thread made me have a really good laugh. If we were to go by what it said then the GMC trucks with Red Plates "CD" roaming in and around parts of Multan and interior Punjab are all an illusion.

Pak - US Intel ties at lowest level...

Haha, what a farce. Pakistan is probbably a second home for the folks at Langley and they have their fingers in all sorts of pies. So we can cut the bullshit right here.

Point i am trying to make is, every politician and head of state in the Muslim world is either made or broken by the CIA and U.S. of A, so where these people are making such claims is really beyond me.