Pak rejects B'desh's demand for apology over army's wrongdoings in 1971 war

[Abu Zolfiqar]

You think India killed those 3 million people in Bangladesh back in the 60s-70s?

1971 Bangladesh atrocities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bangladesh Genocide Archive

Again, review my posts.

By the way there exist sheaves of eye-witness accounts documenting the massacre of West Pakistanis, Biharis and other non-Bengalis in East Pakistan which began long before the Pakistan Army took punitive action against the indian backed mukti bahini rebels

at least half a million non Bengalis were massacred in less than two months

there is documentation of multiple-executions done by a Mukti-Bahini killer squad in Dacca Race Course. The pro-Pakistan Bengali and non-Bengali victims were tortured before being slain and their bodies left ******* in mass graves

we can keep criss-crossing and playing the numbers game......everyone can agree it was a f*cked up period in the history of the general sub-continent. Natural and manmade disasters.

but dont view the history in a biased fashion......this is a huge flaw that people like you suffer from


looking to today, despite a more pro-indian govt. in Bangladesh --the people of Pakistan and Bangladesh hold no real grudge or disdain for eachother. We view Bengalis as brothers/sisters and vice versa

 

[fallstuff]

i was referring to the indian backed mukti bahini......massive inflows took place

i do agree that the election results were shunned, and it would be interesting to see if the general outcome would be different had the results been considered

i personally feel that sooner or later, Bengalis would have opted for a different country. Geographically the wings were seperate as well as culturally, though a good number of loyal Bengalis (East Pakistanis at the time) fought for Pakistan and stood by it till the very end.


again --- it was a tumultuous period, and it was exacerbated by mother nature (in the form of cyclone) and by man-made intervention (meddling) from outsiders with nefarious goals

most if not all people in Pakistan moved on long ago and don't dwell too much over what happened in those days.....sure there are lessons to be learned, but it isnt worth time to cry and whine over history

I don't consider Mukti-Bahini as a terrorist organization. The formation of Mukti-Bahini was after the fact, when military was unleashed to suppress civil disobedience. One has to draw a line. You can not converse with a party that is shooting at you. The evidence was clear in Dhaka on March 26 that conversation was over.

The following is the Telegram from the US Embassy dated March 31, 1971.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB79/BEBB6.pdf

The telegram confirms what folks experienced in the last few days of March, 1971. There were issues that remained unsolved, the military actions just fueled the fire even more. The military action was the point of no return.

 

[silent hill]

I don't consider Mukti-Bahini as a terrorist organization. The formation of Mukti-Bahini was after the fact, when military was unleashed to suppress civil disobedience. One has to draw a line. You can not converse with a party that is shooting at you. The evidence was clear in Dhaka on March 26 that conversation was over.

The following is the Telegram from the US Embassy dated March 31, 1971.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB79/BEBB6.pdf

The telegram confirms what folks experienced in the last few days of March, 1971. There were issues that remained unsolved, the military actions just fueled the fire even more. The military action was the point of no return.

good and now i hope you and india enjoy your time together..

 

[fallstuff]

Again, review my posts.

By the way there exist sheaves of eye-witness accounts documenting the massacre of West Pakistanis, Biharis and other non-Bengalis in East Pakistan which began long before the Pakistan Army took punitive action against the indian backed mukti bahini rebels

at least half a million non Bengalis were massacred in less than two months

there is documentation of multiple-executions done by a Mukti-Bahini killer squad in Dacca Race Course. The pro-Pakistan Bengali and non-Bengali victims were tortured before being slain and their bodies left ******* in mass graves

we can keep criss-crossing and playing the numbers game......everyone can agree it was a f*cked up period in the history of the general sub-continent. Natural and manmade disasters.

but dont view the history in a biased fashion......this is a huge flaw that people like you suffer from


looking to today, despite a more pro-indian govt. in Bangladesh --the people of Pakistan and Bangladesh hold no real grudge or disdain for eachother. We view Bengalis as brothers/sisters and vice versa

Are you claiming these alleged atrocities (highlighted ) were carried out before March 25, 1971 ?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

does it matter when they were carried out?

 

[Pak_Sher]

This thread was started by an Indian to stir things up between Pakistani and Bangladeshi members for something that happened 40 years ago, so guys do not fall in the trap. Forget the 4 decade old stuff, Wiki Leaks just mentioned that India is torturing muslim in Kashmir, what about that?

Bangladeshis are our brothers. Bangladeshis are not going to apologize for killing any Pakistani civilians or Pakistan Army personnel and we should not apologize for something 4 decades old. Lets look to the future and build our trust and relationship.

 

[Md Akmal]

Do u think we should have divided?(only bengalis answer plz)

@ It is very difficult to answer this question !

@ I have seen during the Pakistan times. Pakistan should have recognised our langauge in the early days. Their was no justification for dissolving the Cabinet of AK Fuzlul Haq in 1954. Bengalees were not given due share in all aspects be it a political, be it an economical or be it in defense. Democracy was never allowed in free hand in Pakistan. Pakistan was always concerned about Kashmire even on the expence of East Pakistan. The defence of East Pakistan lies on the Western front was completely a calous theory. Yes, I agree that in those days the budget of Pakistan was not that strong enough to support that but does it mean that you leave it on the mercy of enemy. You people never considered Bengalees as a fighting force. You always under-estimated the Bengalees and had a serious doubt about our loyalty to Pakistan. This was due to the lack of ignorance of your politician, military and civil ellites.

@ If we compare the life during Pakistan times and present time then definately those life was far better atleast on security aspect. We as a human being always first consider the security aspect first. Now-a-days we are always concerned about our security. We have got our independant through a bloody war, we have liberated our country. Now the question arises, will we be able to defend our country ? Will be our children save in future ? Will our country remain independend or it will merge with India ?

@ Some people argue that if we can liberate our country from Pakistani force why can't we defend our country ? In this 21 century, mere having a AK-47 we can't defend our country, we need more sofisticated weapon. Where from we will get these weapon ? Will our neibhour allow us to acquire these weapon ?

@ The problem is there are many people in our country who are pro-Indian. They even donnot want that we should have strong army who can defend it and independent foreign policy.

@ In our country we have roughly 2.5 crores of Hindus. Many of us have a serious doubt about their loyalty to Bangladesh. Many Hindus who earn money here and send it to India to their relatives. I know, many Hindus who took loan and then flade to India. Most of the Hindus lead here a simple life, simple house and they save money and one fine morning flade to their heaven. In the last 40 yeras in all most all general election they have casted their vote in favour of Awami Leaque which they feel that by doing so their life is secured.

@ Each and every moment India makes a conspiracy against Bangladesh in security aspects, political, economical, cultural and what not. We are living here in these odd situation. On the other hand some our people are dancing with other having a tilok on the forehead. Each and every day they have made a history. The whole 12 month is a full of history. It is a complete wastege of money.

 

[TechLahore]

@ It is very difficult to answer this question !

@ I have seen during the Pakistan times. Pakistan should have recognised our langauge in the early days. Their was no justification for dissolving the Cabinet of AK Fuzlul Haq in 1954. Bengalees were not given due share in all aspects be it a political, be it an economical or be it in defense. Democracy was never allowed in free hand in Pakistan. Pakistan was always concerned about Kashmire even on the expence of East Pakistan. The defence of East Pakistan lies on the Western front was completely a calous theory. Yes, I agree that in those days the budget of Pakistan was not that strong enough to support that but does it mean that you leave it on the mercy of enemy. You people never considered Bengalees as a fighting force. You always under-estimated the Bengalees and had a serious doubt about our loyalty to Pakistan. This was due to the lack of ignorance of your politician, military and civil ellites.

@ If we compare the life during Pakistan times and present time then definately those life was far better atleast on security aspect. We as a human being always first consider the security aspect first. Now-a-days we are always concerned about our security. We have got our independant through a bloody war, we have liberated our country. Now the question arises, will we be able to defend our country ? Will be our children save in future ? Will our country remain independend or it will merge with India ?

@ Some people argue that if we can liberate our country from Pakistani force why can't we defend our country ? In this 21 century, mere having a AK-47 we can't defend our country, we need more sofisticated weapon. Where from we will get these weapon ? Will our neibhour allow us to acquire these weapon ?

@ The problem is there are many people in our country who are pro-Indian. They even donnot want that we should have strong army who can defend it and independent foreign policy.

@ In our country we have roughly 2.5 crores of Hindus. Many of us have a serious doubt about their loyalty to Bangladesh. Many Hindus who earn money here and send it to India to their relatives. I know, many Hindus who took loan and then flade to India. Most of the Hindus lead here a simple life, simple house and they save money and one fine morning flade to their heaven. In the last 40 yeras in all most all general election they have casted their vote in favour of Awami Leaque which they feel that by doing so their life is secured.

@ Each and every moment India makes a conspiracy against Bangladesh in security aspects, political, economical, cultural and what not. We are living here in these odd situation. On the other hand some our people are dancing with other having a tilok on the forehead. Each and every day they have made a history. The whole 12 month is a full of history. It is a complete wastege of money.

Thanks for the very candid and heartfelt views. I am deeply sorry for whatever happened in 1971. We do want to help you and please be assured that Bangladesh is definitely not alone. The new framework that is emerging in South Asia will give Bangladesh and Sri Lanka more security for sure.

Let me just say that Bangladesh may not be able to field an Army as large as some other countries in the region, but with some cooperation, it can definitely develop capabilities that will more than thwart a would-be invader.

 

[Md Akmal]

So you are telling me only East pakistani hindus were against the sovereignty of Pakistan and all the East Pakistani muslim wanted to remain with Pakistan?

@ No ares again this statement is not fully correct. All the young generation supported the liberation movement. Ofcourse all the Hindus supported wholehearted supported the movement as because they were the main victim. The following political parties of the then East Pakistan did not supported the movement:
1. Jamate Islami(Very active)
2. Muslim Leaque( All fraction)
3. Jizim-e-Islami
4. Pakistan Democratic Party
5. And all other muslim oriented political parties.

Following political parties were in between:
1. Pakistan National Party(Bhashani) - pro-Chineese
2. Purbo-Bangla Shorbohara Party (Seraj)
3. Toha group

The following poltical parties were directly involved:
1. Awami Leaque
2. Communist Party(pro-Moscow)
3. Pakistan National Party(pro-Moscow)

It is said that about one crore people flade to India as refugee. On scrutiny it was found that out of this one crore 90 lacs were hindus and remaining 10 lacs were muslims who were directly involved with Awami Leaque politics, students, members of para-miltary forces, member of armed forces.

So, from the above statement bulk of our people supported the movement, there is no doubt on it. Again there were many well wisher and colloborater of Pakistani Army.
1. All the Beharies supported the Pakistani army.(their strenght varies from 15 to 25 lacs)
2. Raja Tridev Rai of Chittagong Hill Tracts supported the Pakistani Govt. (Strenght varies 2 to 3 lacs)
3. Most of Bengalee refugees who came from India after 1947 supported the Pakistan Army. Most of the people in Chapai Nobabganj, Sylhet, Commilla, Noakhali, Brahmonbaria, Chittagong supported the Pakistan Army.

In fact most of the govt officials who remained in East Pakistan collobarated with the Pakistan Army. Side by side once Mukti Bahini came inbetween they also helped them. This was a tug of war.

 

[American Pakistani]

@ It is very difficult to answer this question !

@ I have seen during the Pakistan times. Pakistan should have recognised our langauge in the early days. Their was no justification for dissolving the Cabinet of AK Fuzlul Haq in 1954. Bengalees were not given due share in all aspects be it a political, be it an economical or be it in defense. Democracy was never allowed in free hand in Pakistan. Pakistan was always concerned about Kashmire even on the expence of East Pakistan. The defence of East Pakistan lies on the Western front was completely a calous theory. Yes, I agree that in those days the budget of Pakistan was not that strong enough to support that but does it mean that you leave it on the mercy of enemy. You people never considered Bengalees as a fighting force. You always under-estimated the Bengalees and had a serious doubt about our loyalty to Pakistan. This was due to the lack of ignorance of your politician, military and civil ellites.

@ If we compare the life during Pakistan times and present time then definately those life was far better atleast on security aspect. We as a human being always first consider the security aspect first. Now-a-days we are always concerned about our security. We have got our independant through a bloody war, we have liberated our country. Now the question arises, will we be able to defend our country ? Will be our children save in future ? Will our country remain independend or it will merge with India ?

@ Some people argue that if we can liberate our country from Pakistani force why can't we defend our country ? In this 21 century, mere having a AK-47 we can't defend our country, we need more sofisticated weapon. Where from we will get these weapon ? Will our neibhour allow us to acquire these weapon ?

@ The problem is there are many people in our country who are pro-Indian. They even donnot want that we should have strong army who can defend it and independent foreign policy.

@ In our country we have roughly 2.5 crores of Hindus. Many of us have a serious doubt about their loyalty to Bangladesh. Many Hindus who earn money here and send it to India to their relatives. I know, many Hindus who took loan and then flade to India. Most of the Hindus lead here a simple life, simple house and they save money and one fine morning flade to their heaven. In the last 40 yeras in all most all general election they have casted their vote in favour of Awami Leaque which they feel that by doing so their life is secured.

@ Each and every moment India makes a conspiracy against Bangladesh in security aspects, political, economical, cultural and what not. We are living here in these odd situation. On the other hand some our people are dancing with other having a tilok on the forehead. Each and every day they have made a history. The whole 12 month is a full of history. It is a complete wastege of money.

To Bangladeshis, keep your hope alive & call if need, i am not sure our country will fight for Bangladesh as many of your country ppl betrayed the ideology of Pakistan but atleast if you need we can put heavy pressure on west border of India, perhaps Kashmir area LOC will do.

 

[Md Akmal]

Thanks for the very candid and heartfelt views. I am deeply sorry for whatever happened in 1971. We do want to help you and please be assured that Bangladesh is definitely not alone. The new framework that is emerging in South Asia will give Bangladesh and Sri Lanka more security for sure.

Let me just say that Bangladesh may not be able to field an Army as large as some other countries in the region, but with some cooperation, it can definitely develop capabilities that will more than thwart a would-be invader.

Pakistan has helped us a lot we recognise that. It is the Pakistan and China who has helped us to re-organise our army rather whole defence forces from the rudimentary stage. They have given us Fighter Aircraft like A-5, A-6 though outdated but still it helped us to train our pilot. They have helped us to establish our training institution, today we find lot of foreign officers mostly from Middle-East. From these training instition we have lot of Sri Lankon officers. We have trained lot of Bosnian and Sudanese officers. And now today we are competing with Pakistan and India in UN Peace keeping in International arina. And today sometime we are the largest UN Peacekeeping contributors.

 

[ares]

@ No ares again this statement is not fully correct. All the young generation supported the liberation movement. Ofcourse all the Hindus supported wholehearted supported the movement as because they were the main victim. The following political parties of the then East Pakistan did not supported the movement:
1. Jamate Islami(Very active)
2. Muslim Leaque( All fraction)
3. Jizim-e-Islami
4. Pakistan Democratic Party
5. And all other muslim oriented political parties.

Following political parties were in between:
1. Pakistan National Party(Bhashani) - pro-Chineese
2. Purbo-Bangla Shorbohara Party (Seraj)
3. Toha group

The following poltical parties were directly involved:
1. Awami Leaque
2. Communist Party(pro-Moscow)
3. Pakistan National Party(pro-Moscow)

It is said that about one crore people flade to India as refugee. On scrutiny it was found that out of this one crore 90 lacs were hindus and remaining 10 lacs were muslims who were directly involved with Awami Leaque politics, students, members of para-miltary forces, member of armed forces.

So, from the above statement bulk of our people supported the movement, there is no doubt on it. Again there were many well wisher and colloborater of Pakistani Army.
1. All the Beharies supported the Pakistani army.(their strenght varies from 15 to 25 lacs)
2. Raja Tridev Rai of Chittagong Hill Tracts supported the Pakistani Govt. (Strenght varies 2 to 3 lacs)
3. Most of Bengalee refugees who came from India after 1947 supported the Pakistan Army. Most of the people in Chapai Nobabganj, Sylhet, Commilla, Noakhali, Brahmonbaria, Chittagong supported the Pakistan Army.

In fact most of the govt officials who remained in East Pakistan collobarated with the Pakistan Army. Side by side once Mukti Bahini came inbetween they also helped them. This was a tug of war.

Though my question to Al-Zakir rhetorical one for I know such a big independence movement is not possible of only if a minority community(little more than 13%) supports it.

My case in point was Bengali Hindus were discriminately targeted(on the basis of their religion) by Pakistan army in order to appease pro nationalist forces and this began even before 26 march 1971, when Bengali students and the intelligentsia were systematically liquidated.

 

[Md Akmal]

Though my question to Al-Zakir rhetorical one for I know such a big independence movement is not possible of only if a minority community(little more than 13%) supports it.

My case in point was Bengali Hindus were discriminately targeted(on the basis of their religion) by Pakistan army in order to appease pro nationalist forces and this began even before 26 march 1971, when Bengali students and the intelligentsia were systematically liquidated.

Dear ares,

It was true, initially the Pakistan Army targeted the Bengalee Hindus but most of them already flade to India(Almost all) but during the later stage many Hindus and Bengalee muslims returned back and they stayed in a refugee camps established by the Pakistan Govt and were well treated. Actually most of them flade out of fear. Their houses were burned not by the Pakistani Army rather since these houses were vaccant and emty, some of the items were looted by the locals and then burned. It was the common scene in those days. Every day we used to see those fames and smoke till than Pakistan Army did not arrived. They arrived after 15 April 1971 till than not a single Bengalee Hindus were in our area. Main victims were the families of Awami Leaquer(father/mother/brother/sister/uncle) who remained in their houses.

 

[Md Akmal]

What about the terrorism done by Mukhti Bahni terrorists? They killed thousands of innocent West Pakistanis living in East Pakistan. Indian Army raped thousands in East Pakistan and now they are doing that in Indian Occupied Kashmir.

@ The Mukti Bahini was formed after 15 April 1971. Before that their was no Mukti Bahini. Mukti Bahini was never a terrorist organisation as some your people have already said.Well you can say that they were volentiers of Awami Leaque and some of them were defected elements of Pakistan Army who might carried out some killing of Biharies and West Pakistani. You have torealise it was a civil war so it is natural.At that period might was right. At the border areas their were some prove that it was done by the instigation of Indian.

@ About the rape of Indian Army it is completely an allegation from Pakistan side. We never heard that being staying in Bangladesh. Off course their might be some odd rape but that was done overtly but not in public. Indian army came to Bangladesh as victorius so their decipline was much better. Once they intered Bangladesh they were greeted by the local common people as happened during the Second World War in Europe. However, once they went back they carried out lot of looting in our country which is a shameful act of Indian Army.

 

[silent hill]

About the rape of Indian Army it is completely an allegation from Pakistan side. We never heard that being staying in Bangladesh. Off course their might be some odd rape but that was done overtly but not in public. Indian army came to Bangladesh as victorius so their decipline was much better. Once they intered Bangladesh they were greeted by the local common people as happened during the Second World War in Europe. However, once they went back they carried out lot of looting in our country which is a shameful act of Indian Army.

and your nation thinks, that pak army actually did mass rapings, and you have well documented proofs to prove all this stupid claims??

u r comparing the good army of the allies from ww2 to the terrorist army of bharatiya at that time, when pakistan was not the occupant force and it had civil strive going on and the shudras attacked us from behind, what kind of army full of hienas are hailed victorious in such way??

also u claim indian army retured with lootings, didnt they do mass rapings of bengalis as soviets did with the germans???