PAF: Why a few "advance and expensive" aircrafts make sense

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Pls do check Mi 17s are used in supply role for Pak Army not in civil role, abt 100 Mi17s are in use of PAA which is not a small number.

Supply,troop transport,rescue (during diasters),combat air ambulance..

 

[CHI RULES]

mi-17 are civilian helicopter and their delivery were came in small numbers...

Pls do check Mi 17s are used in supply role for Pak Army not in civil role, abt 100 Mi17s are in use of PAA which is not a small number.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

There were rumors about MI 35 that Pakistan gonna procure at least 40 units, but what happened?
We ended up with just 4.
And now you are talking about 80 units of SU 35, i hope this time PAF wouldn't go for just 8

@Viper0011.

There were rumors about MI 35 that Pakistan gonna procure at least 40 units, but what happened?
We ended up with just 4.
And now you are talking about 80 units of SU 35, i hope this time PAF wouldn't go for just 8

@Viper0011.

Nobody buys just "4" helis of a new type... Not any professional Mil.. Unless it's a country like Burundi or Congo.

4 is the initial batch...

It does not make any sense if you get 2 squadrons of heavy fighters. The logistic issue will be there and since PAF is keeping strictly a defensive doctrine, there is no value addition than the medium or light category.

Most probably the Iaf paf scenario will be very intensive over pak skies each side putting more than 10 ..20 jets. In such scenerio light fighters are more apt in a defensive doctrine.

PAF or Pak military believes in "offensive defence"... Google it.

 

[CHI RULES]

Nobody buys just "4" helis of a new type... Not any professional Mil.. Unless it's a country like Burundi or Congo.

4 is the initial batch...



PAF or Pak military believes in "offensive defence"... Google it.

Nice reply further Mi 35 will be more for Infantry support role along with transport of SSG people in war zones can't be used purely in Ant tank role.

 

[Imran Khan]

SU-35 will also make it easy for us to get more new F-16 from USA. SU-35 is needed two squadrons will be enough to deter any Indian threat.

yep same as mi-35 open door for cobra i agree as sd-10 open door for amraam .

 

[aliyusuf]

yep same as mi-35 open door for cobra i agree as sd-10 open door for amraam .

I have been an F-16 fan since 1981. No plane has appealed to me more. But the gap in the capabilities of the Viper and the Super Flanker is huge. I wouldn't appreciate getting more Vipers at the cost of not getting Su-35S at all. If its Viper + Su-35 then nothing like it. If its Viper + J-11D also ok.

But we need a heavy twin engined Air Superiority + Strike = Multirole Fighter for reach and punching power.

 

[Imran Khan]

I have been an F-16 fan since 1981. No plane has appealed to me more. But the gap in the capabilities of the Viper and the Super Flanker is huge. I wouldn't appreciate getting more Vipers at the cost of not getting Su-35S at all. If its Viper + Su-35 then nothing like it. If its Viper + J-11D also ok.

But we need a heavy twin engined Air Superiority + Strike = Multirole Fighter for reach and punching power.

vipers era is over for future only blck-52 can survive our old ones will not much harmful for enemy after 10-15 years . we need something heavy now time for small jest also passed i did not say it was wrong but now we need something big . if tiny countries can operate SU series why not we ? are we more poor then uganda and angole aljerea ?

 

[45'22']

If the deal goes through.....then what are the chances for Pak to go for other heavy chinese fighters??

no mature airforce operates multiple aircraft ....bc of training/ logistics/maintainance/Pilot ratio whatnot.....
Pakistan will be operating thunder,mirages,flankers,Vipers

Will it go for another stealth chinese bird?
does it makes sense @araz sir?

 

[batmannow]

vipers era is over for future only blck-52 can survive our old ones will not much harmful for enemy after 10-15 years . we need something heavy now time for small jest also passed i did not say it was wrong but now we need something big . if tiny countries can operate SU series why not we ? are we more poor then uganda and angole aljerea ?

The most researched & checked fighter jet is F-16 still a dangerous machine but ,times has made it to old for any war hit skies ,specially when all kinds of flankers & gripens & Rafael are looking for it ?
Still , it can do good sharp dog fights , & advance attacks on moving forces if its been connected with specially equipped fighter jets like SU-35s then give a much needed data link readings , target info & to mark the oppositions moves & its initial flight plans ?
Its like 2 SU-35S WITH 4 JF17 & 2 vipers taking out even a sqd of any kind of attacking formation in the air ?

If the deal goes through.....then what are the chances for Pak to go for other heavy chinese fighters??

no mature airforce operates multiple aircraft ....bc of training/ logistics/maintainance/Pilot ratio whatnot.....
Pakistan will be operating thunder,mirages,flankers,Vipers

Will it go for another stealth chinese bird?
does it makes sense @araz sir?

Mirages are near to over their age ?
Sure we need a 5th generation fighter stealth one but for that we need to wait & see what out Chinese friends are getting to ?
& it can take a lot of time ?
So to reach till that time we need a strong fighter which can do any mission at any time even inside enemy airspace ?

 

[Basel]

You are over-exaggerating the SU's and -15's compared to future versions of the JFT. There is NO doubt that the SU-35 and F-15 are much superior platforms but the comparison of having 30 making SUCH a big difference and thinking 400 JFT's can be destroyed "before they can see the enemy" is VERY far fetched and untrue.

In fact, as of today, the range and modes of the JFT's radar is better than the -16's on paper. The range for sure is. But, I don't know the quality of the JFT"s radar and if its comparable to V-9 radars on Vipers. But on paper, JFT has more modes and range of the radar.

Plus the AESA would give a huge boost to the JFT. Don't take the JFT light. It isn't designed to fight with the SU-30 directly but it can send home any fighter in BVR as its the Radar, Avoinic and the Missile that do the BVR part. So the target can be an SU-30 or a Mig-25, the Missile doesn't go off the lock if it realizes its chasing after a SU-30. It still hits it!!

But generally speaking, YES, Pakistan needs the heavies and not 30. She needs around 80 of these. I'd think they'll start with 40's, get experience, build tactics and while the manufacturer comes up with upgrades, then they will get 20-40 more with more upgrades. Traditionally that's how PAF does things.

After 2020, you'll see about 25-30% of the PAF's fleet consisting of heavy, twin engine platforms. This whole financial struggle is till 2018 and then it ends VERY fast. But the dependence is that your current system, that has revived your economy, works the way it is.

Well said, but I want you to shed some light on Su-35 capabilities like anti ship, air defense / dominance (over Pakistan), SEAD/DEAD, CAP with Russian weapons when integrated in PAF with other systems. How effective 40 jets can be in NCW environment of PAF? and how much their capabilities will be enhanced when 3rd party weapons systems are added to them?

My questions are important because their answer will help to understand why PAF is interested in those jets.

@gambit your opinion on my above post will appropriated.

 

[45'22']

The most researched & checked fighter jet is F-16 still a dangerous machine but ,times has made it to old for any war hit skies ,specially when all kinds of flankers & gripens & Rafael are looking for it ?
Still , it can do good sharp dog fights , & advance attacks on moving forces if its been connected with specially equipped fighter jets like SU-35s then give a much needed data link readings , target info & to mark the oppositions moves & its initial flight plans ?
Its like 2 SU-35S WITH 4 JF17 & 2 vipers taking out even a sqd of any kind of attacking formation in the air ?


Mirages are near to over their age ?
Sure we need a 5th generation fighter stealth one but for that we need to wait & see what out Chinese friends are getting to ?
& it can take a lot of time ?
So to reach till that time we need a strong fighter which can do any mission at any time even inside enemy airspace ?

You are saying this will be a stop gap aircraft( 3 Sqd of flankers) ?

 

[Basel]

If the deal goes through.....then what are the chances for Pak to go for other heavy chinese fighters??

no mature airforce operates multiple aircraft ....bc of training/ logistics/maintainance/Pilot ratio whatnot.....
Pakistan will be operating thunder,mirages,flankers,Vipers

Will it go for another stealth chinese bird?
does it makes sense @araz sir?

If bold part of your post is considered as to be true, then it means IAF is not mature air force because they operate so many different platforms.

 

[45'22']

If bold part of your post is considered as to be true, then it means IAF is not mature air force because they operate so many different platforms.

Those are similar kind.....
It wont be diffucult for mig pilots to fly the flankers because the subsystems/interfaces would be similar
Same goes for jaguar/Mirage/rafales

I wouldnt have asked this if pakistan was going for eagles/Hornets or the j series

 

[JohnyD]

It makes sense to me but seeing many experts here, perhaps they can shed better light.

If we opt for say F15 stealth eagles, SU-35 and whatnot in few numbers, say 30, it can provide great cover for our JF17s in large numbers.

For example, the expensive jets with better radar range, able to see target and shoot before JF17, it can soften the target and also guide the smaller jets.

We can't afford 100 expensive jets, but it doesn't make sense either to get say 400 JF17 who are destroyed before they can see enemy jets. Something like 30 F15s + 200 JF17 is better than say 300 JF17 by itself.

What do you guys think?

By F15s or SU-35 I don't mean they're the best out there. My emphasize is on them being more capable of having better radar, range and weapons system. If tomorrow China and US fights, US will utilize its 200 F22 first before sending say 1000 F16 (or whatever lower tier air superiority aircraft they have).

makes sense!

 

[Basel]

Those are similar kind.....
It wont be diffucult for mig pilots to fly the flankers because the subsystems/interfaces would be similar
Same goes for jaguar/Mirage/rafales

I wouldnt have asked this if pakistan was going for eagles/Hornets or the j series

Dear Pakistani pilots are flying Su-30s of PLAAF since long so PAF have pilots familiar with those type of jets also China is big factor here, they will make sure that Pakistan don't have maintenance issues if thru purchase Flanker-Es. Remember how Turkey helped Pakistan to maintain F-16s during heavy embargoes.