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PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

And it also kind of begs the philosophical question that why do Americans opt for Gatling guns and not these other nations?? Have they not miniaturized this tech or whatever.....
American gattling guns also have a drawback. Their electromechanical actuation system takes more spool time before firing a shot, it's more complicated, requires electrical power and has more chances of malfunction. The mechanical guns of thunder and dragon are simple, reliable and doesn't require any electrical power to operate them.

And for the practical usage of the guns plz refer to the studies why US dumped it's legendary A-10 close air support fighter despite of it's beloved Brrrrrrrr sound. Similar threats are for the modern fighter using it's cannon.
 
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In multi role F-16 block 70 wins hands down, with longer range and greater weapons load. Air to air should be closer if it is using AIM-9X and AIM-120D, but the latter so far has only been exported to closest US Allies. F-16 has the advantage in sustained turn while the J-10C should have the advantage in instantaneous turn.

The low sale price to Pakistan is for Pakistan only. It is a bit like how the US provides military aid to Israel. If Argentina wants J-10C it will be quite a bit more expensive because China will also need to deal with political fallout with the UK.
What about radar detection ranges? And electronic warfare package? I know this isn’t public information, but a guess?

Tbh, I’m pretty pissed off that the Chinese sold us the export variant of the PL-15, even the US sells Israel it’s top of the line arsenal.
 
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J-10C is entirely another kind of a beast sharing it's DNA with the 5th Gen fighters and has a much more better variety of armaments than its 1st iteration.
When the technology of the five generation machine is applied to the J10C upgrade,
The current version of J10C is almost almost the same as before the outer shell.
However, the content that may have been wrapped in the casing has produced a huge change.

Although it is seen from the analysis of public information.
PAF version of J10C is the latest version of PLAAF.

And, if you look at the historical communication of the two countries, considering the needs of PAF, I even have reason to suspect that PAF's customized version in some aspects can even be better than PLAAF.
 
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What about radar detection ranges? And electronic warfare package? I know this isn’t public information, but a guess?

Tbh, I’m pretty pissed off that the Chinese sold us the export variant of the PL-15, even the US sells Israel it’s top of the line arsenal.

All those things are classified. For radar capability I think KLJ-7A x 1.5 is probably accurate.
 
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In multi role F-16 block 70 wins hands down, with longer range and greater weapons load. Air to air should be closer if it is using AIM-9X and AIM-120D, but the latter so far has only been exported to closest US Allies. F-16 has the advantage in sustained turn while the J-10C should have the advantage in instantaneous turn.

The low sale price to Pakistan is for Pakistan only. It is a bit like how the US provides military aid to Israel. If Argentina wants J-10C it will be quite a bit more expensive because China will also need to deal with political fallout with the UK.

Block 70 has greater than 1200 km combat radius? I find that to be hard to believe. At this point, PL-15 should be better than AIM-120D and PL-10 should be better than AIM-9X.

Maybe my impression of F-16V is from ROCAF's constant struggles against J-16, but I don't sense it's a going to have advantage in A2A against J-10C.
 
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What about radar detection ranges? And electronic warfare package? I know this isn’t public information, but a guess?

Tbh, I’m pretty pissed off that the Chinese sold us the export variant of the PL-15, even the US sells Israel it’s top of the line arsenal.
I think chance of the original version of PL-15 is still possible (if it isn't already there)

But China does like to keep its high-end technology secure
 
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I think chance of the original version of PL-15 is still possible (if it isn't already there)

But China does like to keep its high-end technology secure
No point being their only ally than is there?

The fact that we have to counter S400’s without a Stealth jet, when our best of best Ally has one, is quite frankly outrageous.

The US sold F-15A/B exclusively to Israel in the last 70’s case in point.
 
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Block 70 has greater than 1200 km combat radius? I find that to be hard to believe. At this point, PL-15 should be better than AIM-120D and PL-10 should be better than AIM-9X.

Maybe my impression of F-16V is from ROCAF's constant struggles against J-16, but I don't sense it's a going to have advantage in A2A against J-10C.

The F-16V currently operated by ROCAF are F-16A airframes with upgraded AESA radar/avionics, that's it. No engine change or any other significantly additions to the airframe (no ground collision avoidance or radar warning receiver for LPI radar). As a result they have lower thrust to weight ratio (added weight of AESA radar) and some times struggle to generate enough power for sustained operations of the radar. Newly produced F-16V, which they will obtain in a few years, are a completely different beast all together.
 
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No point being their only ally than is there?

The fact that we have to counter S400’s without a Stealth jet, when our best of best Ally has one, is quite frankly outrageous.

The US sold F-15A/B exclusively to Israel in the last 70’s case in point.
China must consider her own interests also, the world does not revolve around* us (Pakistan). Even without original version of PL-15, the J10C plus PL-15E is a very capable duo. You would not find a deal like this elsewhere, especially at this price.

Being exclusively US' ally won't get you far when they are heavily in the Indian camp to counter China

We want to avoid block politics. China is at our doorstep and an emerging global superpower, it is in our interest to be their ally.

And since when is China denying us stealth? There will definitely be a stealth platform available and we will have access to it, this is almost a given

There is also hesitation on our side to start this arms race, and we are attempting to build 5th generation infrastructure ourselves
 
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The weapon carrying capacity difference between J-10C & Rafale are simply mind boggling. The J-10C carrying capacity is really pathetic.

It is not pathetic by any means whatsoever. It was designed more as an air superiority fighter and not as a truck.

Moreover you cant compare it with a twin engine platform. You can compare it with F16 which is in similar class.

F16 empty weight is 9207 kg. MTOW 21772kg. However with this much load + CFTs it flies poorly and is less agile than previous blocks.

Empty weight is 9,750 kg. MTOW 19,277 kg.

F16s MTOW is 2495kg more at expense of flight performance.
 
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I have heard that the missing antenna is used to communicate with 5th Gen platforms like the J-20, as 5th Gen are capable of communicating tons of data on greater bandwidths than previous Gen so that's why China needs that datalink for synergy between it's fleet but currently there isn't any such requirement in PAF. So would save some $$ to drop that option in J-10CP. And opted for our own datalink Link-17 to better integrate within PAF fleet
Intrigued with your explanation. There are many variables which make it confusing.

If Chinese were making a data link, then a 5th gen would be in the making too side by side as another project. Technology is researched and implemented by keeping future technology/additions/expansion/upgrades in mind. A software update is much more easier than a hardware update, its cost effective too. The aircraft design team will be pissed off if the software team designs a module which needs a hardware change later on. Antennas, themselves can be configured by softwares for compatibility as well as operating over a large range of frequencies keeping future in mind apart from data link's own software configuration.

1. What would be the requirement of a large throughput data link for a 5th gen only ? that it needs to send massive data compared to DLs(data links) carried by other aircrafts of older gen ?
Is this a special or recon version of aircraft which needs high-res SAR sensors for mapping or collecting information from sensors for continuous transmission which requires dedicated bandwidth ?

2. Why can't 4gen or 4.5 gen aircraft do the same ?
e.g. EA-18G operates with F-35, both are different generation. One is EW and other is fighter. In other cases F-15s and F-22 could be operating together. Would that require addition of hardware like antennas on F-15s or EA-18s.

3. Wasn't it plausible to keep the same version of data link in all aircraft for inter-operability ?

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Lethal factor may cause sleepless nights for enemy...
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Yeah, they have already sent along Brahmos.

In multi role F-16 block 70 wins hands down, with longer range and greater weapons load.
Why not delegate and shift the A2G responsibility to UCAVs, slowly and gradually ?
 
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American gattling guns also have a drawback. Their electromechanical actuation system takes more spool time before firing a shot, it's more complicated, requires electrical power and has more chances of malfunction. The mechanical guns of thunder and dragon are simple, reliable and doesn't require any electrical power to operate them.

And for the practical usage of the guns plz refer to the studies why US dumped it's legendary A-10 close air support fighter despite of it's beloved Brrrrrrrr sound. Similar threats are for the modern fighter using it's cannon.

More prone to failure, needs electricity and more than twice the weight of the double barrel mechanical gun of the J-10.

It is like carrying a heavy sword as your last ditch weapon instead of a lightweight sidearm. Nobody uses it except the Americans.
 
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And then we have people claiming each and everything is including F16s & EFTs are available!

There are plenty of them on this forum who failed to realise US have moved on and US don't have to put sanctions on us to deny weapons. Simply they are not entertaining the idea of selling new weapons to us without the Indian consent and the hostility in the congress against us is at the another level.
It just reinforces our commitment to do better and stop depending on others for our own defence and know who are our real friends. US sanctions turned out to be blessing in disguise for us and forced us in doing things which otherwise we could not have done in million years.
 
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It is not pathetic by any means whatsoever. It was designed more as an air superiority fighter and not as a truck.

Moreover you cant compare it with a twin engine platform. You can compare it with F16 which is in similar class.

F16 empty weight is 9207 kg. MTOW 21772kg. However with this much load + CFTs it flies poorly and is less agile than previous blocks.

Empty weight is 9,750 kg. MTOW 19,277 kg.

F16s MTOW is 2495kg more at expense of flight performance.
Of course J-10 fully loaded has no impact on flight performance?
 
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Of course J-10 fully loaded has no impact on flight performance?

It does of course but F-16 gives user the option to overload even more. People are assuming that the maximum load of F-16 (around 2T more than J-10) would perform similarly to J-10 at its allowed max load.

The difference here is the allowed max load of the 2 is different. I'm sure the J-10 can add another 2 tonnes but the performance would be more sluggish.

You are missing the important factor here. The difference is not that F-16 can carry more to the same performance let's call overall Performance level P1 (benchmark of high load performance) compared to J-10. It is that the F-16 allows user to load it more however Px < P1.

While J-10 simply enforces a minimum of P1 and does not allow user to simply load it further.

WS-10B and F110 have similar dry and wet thrust figures. Both fighters have similar drag and lift.

So why is F-16 capable of carrying more? The reason is in how much each side allows their fighter to have as max. With Chinese the allowed max is lower as the thinking may be along the lines of why should I max it out to the same extent as F-16 is allowed. It degrades performance and range far too much. Reduces energy for weapons released, cannot dodge missiles incoming as well, cannot fly as far or fast or turn or climb anywhere near what is required. So Chinese simply did not bother triple and double racking all the pylons.

F-16 allows this but most missions will not allow it to carry 6 BVR missiles, 2 WVR missiles, three tanks and pods etc. It's just a matter of what you want to do with it.

Some people still stuck at max payload. I suppose this is why those companies market their aircraft in beast mode.

It's the difference between going to combat like this.

1647658392002.png



and going like this.

1647658421585.png



Where both men have similar carrying capacity but both choose different limits.
 
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