PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[siegecrossbow]

And it also kind of begs the philosophical question that why do Americans opt for Gatling guns and not these other nations?? Have they not miniaturized this tech or whatever.....

Americans did invent the gatling gun during the Civil War.

 

[RJV]

How about this your thoughts.................

View attachment 825292

Looking good.


I wish J-10C and JF-17 should also be shown from side like F-16 pic above. The frontal profile does not do justice with the these beauties.

Best would be bottom view of all three with full load. Something like image below but with full load

 

[air marshal]

 

[Ali_Baba]

The weapon carrying capacity difference between J-10C & Rafale are simply mind boggling. The J-10C carrying capacity is really pathetic.

The F16s and Rafale are far more flexible in terms of payload options from what we have seen - maybe it is something PAF can work with Chengdu to fix in the next version of the J10 series now that PAF has bought into it.

 

[ghazi52]

,.,.

,.,.

 

[Oom]

How does the F-16 block 70 stack up against the J-10C. Both with export variant munitions, AIM-120C8 for the former and export variant of PL-15 for the latter?

One of the biggest advantages for inducting the J-10CP has been that finally we have an aircraft that can carry large payload of stand-off munitions, both JF-17 and mirage has limits. The F-16 was of course not permitted for any such offensive weaponry. I honestly believe that the J-10 will IA replace the mirages on a one to one basis- six squadrons.

Also if any member can answer why did the PAF delay the purchase of the J-10 for such a long time?. Did we prefer the F-16? I don’t think money would have been an obstacle especially during the last govt when fiscal situation was better and the Chinese willingness to extend long term financing?

Also given that there isn’t much difference between the price of JF-17 block iii and the J-10 judging from the Argentina’s order, should we really not consider ordering more J-10 over the block iii, the Thunder has limits being a light fighter.

 

[The Terminator]

I am quite aware of that fact.However my question was why wasn't a rotary(aka Gatling) gun used for J-10, much like the F-16??

Guns are becoming rare and obsolete in modern air to air combat. Reason: The ever increasing capabilities of the BVR missiles and HOBS WVR missiles. The only purpose it most probably serve is strafing through the enemy positions when exhausted all of you other munitions but it's also could be a fatal mistake in the end.

So whenever you have to switch to the gun you are already in deep $hit trouble, better try to bugger off to survive and fight another day. Why put the most precious assets in the battlefield (pilot and the plane) in unnecessary risk of being even shot down by HMG fire.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[The Terminator]

For J-10CE,the only target is RAFALE. So 4XPL-15 is enough.

No it's role is much more extensive than that. It would act as a premier 4++ Gen Omni role fighter for the PAF, performing wide range of missions. It would be able to perform all the missions perhaps better than the present fleet of the PAF. It may also play the role of PAF's Nuclear delivery platform upon the retirement of the tired Mirages.
In air superiority role it's standard munitions load out would be 4 BVRs (PL-15) and 2 HOBS WVR missiles (PL-10) with probably some fuel drop tanks and chin mounted additional EW jamming pod

 

[Rahil khan]

How does the F-16 block 70 stack up against the J-10C. Both with export variant munitions, AIM-120C8 for the former and export variant of PL-15 for the latter?

One of the biggest advantages for inducting the J-10CP has been that finally we have an aircraft that can carry large payload of stand-off munitions, both JF-17 and mirage has limits. The F-16 was of course not permitted for any such offensive weaponry. I honestly believe that the J-10 will IA replace the mirages on a one to one basis- six squadrons.

Also if any member can answer why did the PAF delay the purchase of the J-10 for such a long time?. Did we prefer the F-16? I don’t think money would have been an obstacle especially during the last govt when fiscal situation was better and the Chinese willingness to extend long term financing?

Also given that there isn’t much difference between the price of JF-17 block iii and the J-10 judging from the Argentina’s order, should we really not consider ordering more J-10 over the block iii, the Thunder has limits being a light fighter.

To my knowledge J-10 was shown to President Musharraf during his visit to Beijing back in 2006, and he was impressed without doubt and i believe we placed an order for couple of squadrons. But at the same time we were in a process of having new Block 52 Vipers along with the Mid Life Upgraded ones. We also devloped our capacity to have serial production line of thunders. But Musharraf's resgination and the economic decline of 2008 afterwards, our officials better decided to stick with old/new F-16s along with serial production line of thunders. Also J-10A model at that time never added something substantially new in our defence spectrum i guess. We were quite happy by having new AMRAAMs and SD-10s along with newLY acquired night strike capability. But J-10C is the different story altogether.

 

[Development C&P]

I need to make some corrections to the contents of the last discussed in # 6154 on page 411.

The picture shown in the article is indeed the cockpit used by the J10C of PLAAF, but this should belong to the early model.


In the video disclosed in PLAAF (2021; 2022),
J10C's cockpit and pilot training simulator have been very different from the previously formed instrument panels composed of four screens.


This is analyzed in page 411 # 6157
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-j-10c-news-updates-and-discussion.736569/post-13635810

Regarding the cockpit of J10C,
I personally infer that after the avionics system is fully upgraded,
the applying the dashboard should be the application version of the concept cockpit displayed on the 2014 Air Show.

That is, it is this style.

Through image processing, we can see the shape of the dashboard current J10C and its training devices.
It is clear that the outline of the dashboard is a rectangular, which is not composed of several modules.

in addition
From the previous PAF J10C promotional video, the dashboard exhibited is partially
Inferred by its angles and sizes and the color shown,

The size and angle of this screen is closer to the concept chamber cabin on the left, not the dashboard from the air show aircraft on the right.

This gives us reason to believe，In addition to the operating rod because the early flight control design is still left in the middle position, it is not placed outside the right, and other functional upgrades should be applied to J10C.

Who knows the J10 series in the upgrade process, how many technological innovations brought by J20...

Of course, these may be inaccurate, this is just a personal analysis based on public network video and discussion.

I am comparative analysis of all the videos issued by PLAAF and PAF on the network.
Its cockpit layout is indeed different from the earlier version of J10C（Before 2020）.
AVIC's CAC is provided to PAF's J10C, which should be synchronized with PLAAF, and is the most advanced J10C of the latest batch.


So we have reason to believe that，
What we see now,
Flying over Islamabad,
It is very likely to upgrade the latest version of the avionics and control system J10C.

Maybe we can call it "J10CP"（J10 C-PLUS）




_______________________________________________________
Of course, these may be inaccurate, this is just a personal analysis based on public network video and discussion.

 

[The Terminator]

How does the F-16 block 70 stack up against the J-10C. Both with export variant munitions, AIM-120C8 for the former and export variant of PL-15 for the latter?

One of the biggest advantages for inducting the J-10CP has been that finally we have an aircraft that can carry large payload of stand-off munitions, both JF-17 and mirage has limits. The F-16 was of course not permitted for any such offensive weaponry. I honestly believe that the J-10 will IA replace the mirages on a one to one basis- six squadrons.

Also if any member can answer why did the PAF delay the purchase of the J-10 for such a long time?. Did we prefer the F-16? I don’t think money would have been an obstacle especially during the last govt when fiscal situation was better and the Chinese willingness to extend long term financing?

Also given that there isn’t much difference between the price of JF-17 block iii and the J-10 judging from the Argentina’s order, should we really not consider ordering more J-10 over the block iii, the Thunder has limits being a light fighter.

As per public domain knowledge any variant of the Aim-120C is inferior to the PL-15 in range and kinetic performance because PL-15 uses dual pulse rocket motor and has greater range. PL-15 has reportedly (arguably) better sensor suite with active AESA radar seeker which is much more resilient to jam/fool by ECM and possesses superior ECCM characteristics, so it would have high probability of hit than the other missiles.

As for late J-10 acquisition, PAF was never interested to get J-10A. They started evaluating it in B form, but even then it lacked in certain aspects.

PAF's 1st preference was to get more F-16s almost free under US provided CSF funds. Yes F-16 was by then the most suitable option, a lethal machine which our pilot's had experience flying for decades. Easier and much more cheaper to integrate in present PAF setup as we already had dozens of F-16s well maintained and flying. The only downside was excessive US pressure and embargo issues.

The mamy reasons for inducting J-10C now. The platform has matured and have seen drastic evolution in Avionics and local Chinese WS-10 engines. It in its current form really enhances the capabilities of the PAF, could be used as Nuclear delivery platform in place of Mirages no strings attached. Would speed up PAF's modernization plans by replacing Mirages and F-7s with thunders and dragons. Synergy between the thunders, dragons, HQ-9, ground radars, and Chinese AWACS etc. Rather than having a a fleet of obsolete Soviet era fighters with new Russian SU-30MKI and western totally different Rafale operating almost in their own sperate bubbles. And we weren't able to buy J-10s before with Russian Al-31 engines due to India's obvious concerns.

 

[The Terminator]

To my knowledge J-10 was shown to President Musharraf during his visit to Beijing back in 2006, and he was impressed without doubt and i believe we placed an order for couple of squadrons. But at the same time we were in a process of having new Block 52 Vipers along with the Mid Life Upgraded ones. We also devloped our capacity to have serial production line of thunders. But Musharraf's resgination and the economic decline of 2008 afterwards, our officials better decided to stuck with old/new F-16s along with serial production line of thunders. Also J-10A model at that time never added something substantially new in our defence spectrum i guess. We were quite happy by having new AMRAAMs and SD-10s along with new acuired night strike capability. But J-10C is the different story altogether.

That's was just Musharraf's fantasy back then. PAF wasn't interested. Even JF-17 thunder was superior to J-10A in various aspects. The only advantage of J-10A was bigger size so more payload and range but a very limited aircraft which was supposed to be an interceptor for the PLAAF. And PAF doesn't really buy single role jets. J-10C is entirely another kind of a beast sharing it's DNA with the 5th Gen fighters and has a much more better variety of armaments than its 1st iteration.

 

[siegecrossbow]

How does the F-16 block 70 stack up against the J-10C. Both with export variant munitions, AIM-120C8 for the former and export variant of PL-15 for the latter?

One of the biggest advantages for inducting the J-10CP has been that finally we have an aircraft that can carry large payload of stand-off munitions, both JF-17 and mirage has limits. The F-16 was of course not permitted for any such offensive weaponry. I honestly believe that the J-10 will IA replace the mirages on a one to one basis- six squadrons.

Also if any member can answer why did the PAF delay the purchase of the J-10 for such a long time?. Did we prefer the F-16? I don’t think money would have been an obstacle especially during the last govt when fiscal situation was better and the Chinese willingness to extend long term financing?

Also given that there isn’t much difference between the price of JF-17 block iii and the J-10 judging from the Argentina’s order, should we really not consider ordering more J-10 over the block iii, the Thunder has limits being a light fighter.

In multi role F-16 block 70 wins hands down, with longer range and greater weapons load. Air to air should be closer if it is using AIM-9X and AIM-120D, but the latter so far has only been exported to closest US Allies. F-16 has the advantage in sustained turn while the J-10C should have the advantage in instantaneous turn.

The low sale price to Pakistan is for Pakistan only. It is a bit like how the US provides military aid to Israel. If Argentina wants J-10C it will be quite a bit more expensive because China will also need to deal with political fallout with the UK.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

How about this your thoughts.................

View attachment 825292

The Three Musketeers....

All for one, and one for all.....