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PAF Able to Stop Drones - ACM

Shifting strategies on Afghan border

By Barbara Plett
BBC News, Islamabad

US troops in Khost province, 5km from the Afghan-Pakistan border
The US army is playing up co-operation with Pakistani counterparts

The apparent contradiction in Pakistani and American military strategies along the Afghan border is becoming difficult to ignore.

Last week in Islamabad the prime minister told parliament that unilateral US air strikes on militant targets inside Pakistan had become intolerable and the army chief of staff, on a visit to Brussels, urged Nato to stop them.

At the same time a series of US military officers claimed that co-operation between the two armies was improving and, in fact, had been taken to the "next level" of co-ordination and intelligence sharing.

So which statement is right? Probably both.

Fleeing insurgents

The two armies are working together closely on a section of the border that divides the Afghan province of Kunar and the Pakistani tribal area of Bajaur.

Pakistan launched a serious and sustained operation there after its forces were besieged by local Taleban militants supported by foreign fighters from Afghanistan.

Map Bannu, Dera Ismail Khan

The Americans say this is having a significant impact in curbing cross-border militancy, and have moved to block the escape of fleeing insurgents.

"We are doing things today on the ground (in co-ordination with Pakistani forces) that we weren't even talking about five or six months ago," the commander of American troops in Afghanistan, Gen David McKiernen, said recently.

Pakistani commanders express similar sentiments.

"I've seen an improvement where I'm operating," agrees the officer in charge of the Bajaur operation, Maj Gen Tariq Khan.

"We've set up a system in which we're in some kind of regular touch. We've seen practical on-ground adjustments (by the Americans and Afghans) in relevance to our operations."

Yet a series of US air strikes against militant targets in another part of Pakistan's border region - the tribal areas of South and North Waziristan - continues unabated despite strong Pakistani protests that this is stoking rage among tribesmen and undermining public support for its own counter-insurgency efforts.

Here the Americans insist they are eliminating senior militants linked to the Taleban and specially al-Qaeda. The new chief of the US Central Command, Gen David Petraeus, is reported to have claimed that at least three extremist leaders were killed in recent months.

"We are helping you by hitting your bad guys," he told Pakistani officials on a recent visit to Islamabad, according to the local Dawn newspaper.

Conflict of interest

American media says that privately the Pakistani government has actually given tacit approval for the attacks, but continues to denounce them publicly to save face.

This is something officials here have denied.


The more I talk to the establishment, the more I'm convinced that hatred and fear of India has increased
Unnamed Pakistani analyst

Whatever the case with the political authorities, other sources say at least for the army there is a real conflict of interest because, in its eyes, the militants being hit by US missiles are not Pakistan's "bad guys".

Security officials here complain that despite their encouragement the US has failed to target the Pakistani Taleban commander who is fighting the Pakistan army and blamed for most of the suicide bombings in the country, Baitullah Mehsud.

Instead, American air strikes overwhelmingly hit the territory of local Taleban leaders who have ceasefires with Pakistan's military, but still send fighters to attack Nato in Afghanistan.

Recently, these commanders - Mullah Nazir and Hafiz Gul Bahadur - have blamed the Pakistani government for complicity in the US attacks and threatened retaliation, feeding fears of upsetting the army's precarious policy of divide and rule among the different Taleban factions in the border region.

"We don't have the capacity and capability to deal with all the Taleban groups at once," said a military official. "If you go for all out confrontation, you lose whatever control you have."

The Americans are particularly concerned about the Afghan Taleban commander Jalaluddin Haqqani and his son, Sirajuddin, who are said to be based in North Waziristan.

Trust deficit

The US blames the Haqqani network for much of the violence in south-eastern Afghanistan, as well as the attack on the Indian Embassy in Kabul last July.

"Haqqanis are for us what Baitullahs are for you," Dawn quoted Gen Petraeus as saying to Pakistani commanders.

Protests in Islamabad against US air strikes
US air strikes are deeply unpopular in Pakistan

Other US officials suspect that Pakistan's army and main intelligence service, the ISI, not only refuses to go after the Afghan Taleban, but actively supports them.

These American suspicions have created a trust deficit between the two nations.

But there are reasons why the Pakistani military does not pursue the Afghan Taleban the way the US would like it to, says an informed observer speaking off the record.

"The ISI does have links with the Afghan Taleban because it wants to use them as a bargaining chip in Afghanistan," he says.

"The Pakistani army wants to have a bigger say in whatever new regional dispensation America is planning. And the view within the army and the ISI is that if the Afghan Taleban is abandoned, this will strengthen the Afghan government, as well as India in Afghanistan, at Pakistan's expense."

Military training

There is no question the army is worried about India's increasing influence in Afghanistan.

Delhi has made major investments, including a motorway that links Afghanistan's road system to the Iranian border and will eventually give access to Iranian ports on the Iranian Gulf, potentially marginalising Pakistan's new sea port of Gwadar.

Pakistani soldier on the border with Afghanistan
The US and Pakistan have different priorities for the border area

It has also offered to help train the Afghan military and has reopened consulates near Pakistan's border.

And it has close ties with an Afghan government dominated by the Northern Alliance, an anti-Taleban grouping hostile to Pakistan.

"The more I talk to the establishment, the more I'm convinced that hatred and fear of India has increased," says a Pakistani analyst, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject.

"It's a major driver. And now [the fear is] India together with America."

With the United States supporting India as the dominant regional power, as well as bombing Pakistan's tribal areas, many military officials here are convinced that Washington is colluding with India and Afghanistan to weaken and perhaps dismember the world's only Muslim nuclear power.

This may sound like paranoia, but long time observers of the military maintain that it is prone to conspiracy theories.

However, it does not help that 60 years after its establishment, Pakistan's borders are still in dispute: with India in the east over the Himalayan territory of Kashmir; and with Afghanistan in the west where no Afghan government has ever recognised as legitimate the British-drawn Durand Line that separates it from Pakistan.

Given these festering disputes, the Pakistani army is expected to continue using the cards it has to push for what it sees as its interests in Afghanistan.

And one of these cards, it seems, is the Afghan Taleban - viewed by many in the military establishment as at least a non-hostile force in a country where there is no shortage of other enemies.


BBC NEWS | South Asia | Shifting strategies on Afghan border
 
While replying you might have ignored some ground realities. The US does not enjoy the kind of superiority it had in Iraq or against Afghanistan.
Your most potent aircraft is the Block 15 F-16 made in America. You depend on America for spares and replacements. America does not allow Pakistan to test its F-16 upgraded in Turkey in Pakistan, but is making Pakistan send its upgraded aircraft to america for testing.

You don't have a single missile that can reach the American mainland, yet you claim Pakistan posseses retaliatory capability against America.

In case USA carpet bombs tribal areas or NWFP what will happen if Pak army and air force go on attack in Afghanistan. Where will US and NATO troops run. Please do not try to give impression that Pakistan is unable to retaliate. We have a number of options available and depending on government directive armed forces are fully capable of using them.

Kabul is not a long way from Peshawar.

The headlines in the Newwspaper next day

American B-52 launches air attacks on NWFP from North Dakota. Pakistan retaliates by bombing Kabul in Afghanistan

Ejazbhai does not stop at this. according to him Pakistan will further attack NATO troops

USA attacks Pakistan and Pakistan attacks NATO

Ejazbhai is convinced that not only will Pakistan be able to defend itself successfully against full-fledeged ariel raid from America, but the Pakistani Armed Forces is capable of fending off a simultaneous raid from NATO countries.

Why is NATO attacking Pakistan?

Because Pakistan attacked NATO troops in response to America's attack on Pakistan....waahh kya tactics hai Ejazbhai ka!!!

Ejazbhai, even a Pakistani attack on Diego Garcia would not be possible.

Your only way of reaching Diego Garcia is by launching one of your Ballistic Missiles.

Pakistan launches a Ballistics Missile on American territory and the next day the Afghan government finds that there is a huge hole on their Eastern border. Why??

.....because the US government retaliated by launching 2 LGM Minuteman missiles from its bases in the Nevada desert

End of story

FYI, American troops stationed in Afganistan do not operate under the NATO mandate

Ejaazbhai, aap jaisa maine doosra insaan nahi dekha. Aaapko bhai banake aapke gale lagna chahta hoon
 
"Great, exactly the sort of thing we least needed, more reason for Pakistanis to believe slugger's defeatist version of things..."

That's an eighteen month old story. Old news.

There's an Indian provocateur or two in our midst.
 
The Air Chief might be making trouble for himself, but I suppose he is also trying to defend the honor of his force...

Kasrkin;sir
i guss, you are absoultly right but i belive that he is one of the most patriotic people's in our top brass, but at the same time ,he is doing great job.
a real warrior, never thinks that he wins or lost, but what he care most is the hounor, & the perstige!:agree::tup:
thankyou, sir
 
These Words are not in the Dictionary of the PAF.


These words suit only our Defence minister.

PAF is a symbol of pride for the nation just give them the orders today and i bet my life on PAF, no God damned American UAV will even dare to enter Pakistani Skies because they know PAF capabilities very well but our President and Defence minister don't know about them.

I heard the defence minister saying that :crazy::crazy:

Excuse me sir, we have the Technology and all the necessary Equipment to detect and Eliminate the UAV threat and we did this in the Past when PAF shot the Indian/Israeli UAV

I still remember that day when PAF Falcons took off from Peshawar and American UAV ran away Scared Before Pakistani Mirage jets even reached there.

So my Defence minister what do you say now ?

simply great!:tup:
 
wishful thinking.

No offence meant, but from all the info available in public domain, it is quite evident that the US is certain of the fact that members of your Armed Forces are hand in glove with the very people the US is targetting

Strategically important targets will always be hunted by the US themselves without prior intimation to you.

AFAIK you have no baragining chip to stop the US from doing what it want and where it wants in Pakistan.

You try to take down one of their UAVs and the IMF might just decide to block the $4 billion USD that it is considering lending you.

Mr. Zardari must be aware of this fact and that appears to be why the go-ahead has not been given inpite of your capabilities.


slugger; sir
guss what? we realy dont need "predators"! why!!!
i guss ,chinese (L-6 guided gluider preccesion) bomb's are enough, we only can ask usa just for thier stalite assistance?
probum solve! right:tup::D
 
Repercussions there certainly are, but unfortunately for Pakistan these repercussions are being felt within the borders of Pakistan and not on mainland USA who is carrying out these strikes and causing a significant amount of "collateral damage".

If we are to assume that the US flies its UAVs/UCAVs into your NWFP without your knowledge for these attacks [you claim otherwise later], then it appears that the US has faced absolutely no repercussions at all. It continues to fly in and out of the NWFP with absolute impunity and bomb its assumed target.
If reports from the public domain are to be believed, these attacks are accompanied by a significant amount of Collateral Damage.
The fact of the matter is that the US is doing pretty much what it can in your NWFP and is facing absolutely no, taking a word from you, repercussions.
(Please don't tell me that the collapse of Lehmann Brothers and the sub-prime lending crisis in the US was a result of unprovoked attacks on Pakistani soil by US forces using the Predator drone......naaaah!!! not happening buddy)


Unfortunately for you the US is yet to look beyond it. The first time they started refusing to look beyond it was when they realized that Pakistani personals had leaked News of American Cruise missile attacks in Afghanistan to the Taliban. This attack could have effectively neutralised Osama Bin Laden and fulfilled all American objectives of the time.
Unfortunately the leak from Pakistani side prevented this prevented this from happening and thanks to this the Al-Qaeda chief is still alive and kicking.

As for why America lets Pakistani Armed forces take part its attack missions, the reasons are different

Musharraf regime: - You may clear an area of unwanted elements using Air attacks, but to hold on to the dominance of that area you need the infantry to pound its boots on that area. Unfortunately for the Americans, their foot soldiers are streached thin across the globe. Hence they need to offload some of its duties to willing volunteers. In this case it happens to be the Pakistani armed forces sharing some of the American load.

A Democratically elected government: - + looks bad when it appears that the government elected by the people as no say in the affairs of a region [NWFP] . Such government loses credibility and leaves it vulnerable to a coup from its Armed Forces. The last thing the Amercan government wants is another Dictator heading Pakistan. Appearing to have say in the affairs of a region goes a long way in restoring faith in the minds of people and gaining credibiltiy.



Naaah!...defaulting is when you have already taken the loan and not paying it back. The situation here is if Pakistan is denied the loan at all in the first place. Defaulting on previous IMF loans - well that is another matter and not of significance as in those cases, you have already received the loans.

Well buddy it is a little easier for you to say Pakistan can do without the loan, since you are in no position of power to take policy decisions which have effects on a National level.
But do take the effort to ask a respected Pakistani economist [not a politician] how much Pakistan needs the loan from the IMF and you would realize the significance of this loan.
In this time of economic recession, Pakistan needs the loan more than any other developing economy in the world

I would respond but your comments are outright misinformed so I will let them go unanswered as others have commented enough. Most here can see through that your posts have no intention of educating others or learning from them, rather they are only to troll and then get a radical response to them.

Also avoid the condescending tone in your posts next time around. That tone can go bi-directionally and would only result in spoiling this thread.
 
Pakistan will mull various options to stop US strikes: PM
* Gilani says Pakistan sought IMF help after foreseeing global recession

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will consider a number of options to stop US attacks on targets inside Pakistan, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said in a TV interview on Tuesday.

A decision on how to counter these attacks would be made by the newly formed parliamentary committee on national security, he added.

“Let the committee hold its first meeting. We have a number of options that we can consider to counter these attacks apart from going to the UN,” he said.

The prime minister denied having tacit or verbal agreement allowing US drones to hit Al Qaeda and Taliban targets inside Pakistan.

IMF: He said his government had foreseen a global economic recession and was therefore among the first countries to seek assistance from the International Monetary Fund.

The government had made some ‘unpopular decisions’ to bring financial discipline immediately after it came into power, Gilani said. “That is why the IMF loan was approved quickly.”

The prime minister said the parliament would bring a unanimous resolution on presidential powers issue in its next session.

He said he had complete authority as the prime minister and no decisions were made without his approval. “Give me one example when a decision was made without me.”

Gilani said decisions on appointments in the higher judiciary and the reinstatement of sacked chief justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry would be made in the parliament.

“Parliament is sovereign and supreme and whatever it will decide, we will accept it,” he said.

The prime minister stressed the need for honouring merit in state appointments. “If the right people are selected for the right job, 90 percent of problems of Pakistan will be solved,” he said.

Gilani said Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif had denied in a telephone conversation with him that the PML-N wanted the PPP to quit the Punjab government.
agencies/daily times monitor

who could believe this chootia prime minister, he only speak **** nothing at all.
 
we are capable of along time ago but our governemnts said take no action we if we would've taken the action US prolly left Afganistan now.
 
Dont forget we shot one of Yours (which you took from Israel). So we have the capability. Need a proof, Send one of yours again.
The Indian Air Force shoots down a PAF-owned Atlantique killing 16 people onboard.

PAF retaliates by shooting down an unmanned UAV

16 Pakistani Armed Forces personel lives = 1 Indian UAV

@metalfalcon


DO NOT
insult the men of your Armed Forces

A country that forgets/demeans its Army is doomed to spiral into self-destruction

Pakistani jaan itni sasti naa baniye
 
Looks like someone has all the makings of a complete troll. Shooting down of the Atlantique and the UAV(which was in a active combat zone) are hardly related. There is considerable dispute about in who's territory the Altantique was shot down and close to none about where the UAV was shot down. If it was a retaliation, then it was from the Indian side in light of the loses inflicted on them during the Kargil skirmish (India lost pilots too in ARMED air raids on Pakistani positions). We honour our men greatly, just like we honour yours by not behaving the way you are right now.
 
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