PAF Able to Stop Drones - ACM

[Nihat]

sorry if this has been posted before

System to hit drones will be ready in a year’

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2008_pg1_5

ISLAMABAD: Pakistani scientists will develop a sophisticated system to hit highflying spy planes within a year, Federal Defence Production Minister Abdul Qayyum Khan Jatoi said on Tuesday. He told a private TV channel that Pakistan already had a radar system to locate and destroy spy planes but it had a limited capacity. “Concerted efforts are underway to enhance the capacity to target the intruding planes,” he said. app

 

[ejaz007]

Facts on the ground don't quite support your claims - Terrorists are launching attacks on NATO troops stationed in Afghanistan and then retreating back to their NWFP stronghold in Pakistan.

When it comes to Pakistan's territorial demarcation, these terrorist elements have made a joke and a complete mockery of it by travelling to and fro between Pakistan and Afghanistan without possesing valid papers to do so.

Ejazbhai 1 question - what will Pakistan do if the american decide to use their B-52/B-2s to carpet bomb your NWFP and eliminate all presence of terrorist elements from there, even if it is accompanied by collosal collatreal damage for Pakistan.
Pakistan has absolutely no offensive capabiltiy to launch a retaliatory attack against the USA

Your American-made block-15 F-16s or JF-17s are no match for the USAF F-15/18 E/F and have absolutely no capability of reaching American mainland

You launch a severe protest against the US in the UN - US is a veto power country and is not affected by any sanctions

Ejazbhai, please tell me 1 Pakistani retaliation that would hurt the Amercians

The fact is that that, and I appear to be repeating it over and over here, it is simple American Goodwill and outsourcing of killing that makes the Pakistani Armed forces get involved in America's attacks on Pakistan's sovereign territory


For the sake of a discussion, I am even willing to overlook the fact that what you are saying is pure conjecture.

Are you then trying to tell the world that the Pakistani government is actually approving these apparently unsanctioned attacks on it Pakistani territory by US UAVs and then after the attacks have taken place Pakistan cries foul about America violating its Airspace.

If that is the case - you just accused the Pakistani Governemtn of being complicit in the murder of innocent Pakistani civillians

I am not sure about your country, but in most civilised country, you would have been held for charges of treason for making such a statement

These innocent Pakistani civilians merely happened to be present at the time of the attacks on the actual targets and fell prey to the Hellfires because your Governement allowed the US to use UAVs to target terrorists even when it knew innocent citizens were present in the vicinity and are surely going to be harmed when such air-borne attack is going to be launched.

While replying you might have ignored some ground realities. The US does not enjoy the kind of superiority it had in Iraq or against Afghanistan. Do keep in mind that we have a very well organized air force and army.

In case USA carpet bombs tribal areas or NWFP what will happen if Pak army and air force go on attack in Afghanistan. Where will US and NATO troops run. Please do not try to give impression that Pakistan is unable to retaliate. We have a number of options available and depending on government directive armed forces are fully capable of using them.

Kabul is not a long way from Peshawar.

Drone attacks are the limit and beyond that nothing is allowed. As far as pakistani forces confrontation with US/Nato forces is concerned am posting few links go through them.

NATO helicopters exchange fire with Pakistani border forces | Top News

Pakistani troops fire on US soldiers near Afghan border, reports say

 

[ejaz007]

Pakistan Orders Troops to Fire on U.S. Forces
By Noah Shachtman September 16, 2008

Pakistani troops have been ordered to fire on U.S. forces, if they launch another raid across the Afghan border, an army spokesman tells the Associated Press.

"The orders are clear," Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said in an interview. "In case it happens again in this form, that there is a very significant detection, which is very definite, no ambiguity, across the border, on ground or in the air: open fire."

Yesterday, there were reports of irregular Pakistani forces and U.S. troops exchanging fire near the Afghanistan/Pakistan border. On September 4th, American and Afghan commandos made a cross-border raid. And in June, U.S. forces called in air strikes after being attacked by Pakistani troops.

Pakistani Prime Minster Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani tells The News, however, that tensions between the two countries will be resolved diplomatically. “We are a nuclear state and cannot act irresponsibly. I assure you that diplomatically we will convince them to respect Pakistan’s sovereignty.”

UPDATE: The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff "made a hastily arranged visit to Pakistan on Tuesday for talks about recent incursions by American commandos based in neighboring Afghanistan," the Times is reporting.

Pakistan Orders Troops to Fire on U.S. Forces (Updated) | Danger Room from Wired.com

Here's another relevant news link. Rest google yourself.

 

[ejaz007]

U.S., Pakistani Soldiers Reported Killed In Border Incident

May 14, 2007 (RFE/RL) -- At least one U.S. soldier and one Pakistani soldier were killed when shooting broke out during an effort today to bring an end to violent clashes between Afghan and Pakistani government troops around their common border.

Accounts of the incident, which occurred near that disputed border, vary widely.

Reports from the region say U.S. troops were trying to help negotiate a resolution to the clashes, which have included artillery and gun battles between Pakistani and Afghan border guards that started on May 13. Dozens have been reported killed in that fighting.

Differing Accounts

There are widely varying reports about who was involved in this latest incident.

A spokesman for Afghanistan's Defense Ministry, General Zahir Azimi, says a Pakistani military officer shot dead two U.S. soldiers and injured two others while talks were going on in Pakistan's Kurram tribal area.

Azimi also says U.S. troops returned fire and killed several Pakistani soldiers.

However, a spokesman for Pakistan's Army, Major General Waheed Arshad, says the Afghan version of events is wrong.

Arshad says militants opened fire on a convoy, killing one U.S. soldier and one Pakistani soldier. He said two U.S. and two Pakistani soldiers were wounded.

Arshad said Pakistani troops were not involved in the shooting.

The U.S. military says it has learned of an incident in the border area but does not yet have details.

NATO's International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan confirms ISAF casualties but not the exact number of injured or killed.

In Washington, the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush also was trying to sort out exactly what had happened.

White House spokesman Tony Snow said, "We are aware of some of the casualty reports that are coming out. We're studying them in terms of trying to read what's going on politically within Pakistan."

Afghan Governor Said To Be Injured

A correspondent in the area for RFE/RL's Radio Free Afghanistan reports that the governor of Afghanistan's Paktia Province and his translator also were injured in the violence.

The governor, Rahmatullah Rahmat, told Radio Free Afghanistan earlier today that 41 Afghans have been killed or wounded by gunfire and crossborder artillery barrages since May 13.

Rahmat said the fighting along the border erupted after Pakistani forces encroached into Afghan territory.

Arshad, the Pakistani Army spokesman, accused the Afghan Army of sparking the battle with "unprovoked" fire at several of its border posts.

The Afghan National Assembly and Afghan President Hamid Karzai have condemned the violence. Karzai has sent a delegation to investigate.

Today is the fourth day this month of deadly clashes between Afghan and Pakistani government troops along the border.

The incident comes two weeks after Karzai and Pakistan's president, General Pervez Musharraf, met in Ankara, Turkey, where they agreed improve their often strained relations and to increase military cooperation.

U.S., Pakistani Soldiers Reported Killed In Border Incident

Here's another such incident. Hope you understand depending upon your brain level.

 

[Kasrkin]

this is only good in movies. ground realities are different. we know as blain2 said "convergence of interests". any person with some common sense would know that.

My post was a long post, which part were you particularly referring to good sir? I think that Pakistan's agenda, as far as getting the Al-Qaeda leadership goes, converges a lot with US. Ofcourse there is a difference of opinion on the prioritizing of Taliban factions and their commanders, etc. But at the end of the day I think this is going to be worth it, the Americans will understand our position clearly and they will have less of a reason to go it alone in our territories.

And I don’t reckon a major change in public opinion if these drones start flying with the PAF symbol on ‘em, but it’s going to make things quite easier for us both internationally and domestically. People who sympathize with Al-Qaeda will obviously not be too happy about it, but at least they won't have reason to hide behind the banner of "Pakistani integrity" and we can shift the theme of the situation back to "PAKISTAN VS AL-QAEDA" which is the only way to win this war sooner rather than later.

P.S. Did you say just I lacked common sense Fatman sir?

 

[Imran Khan]

Pakistan seeking friends’ help to counter drones’

KARACHI: Pakistan is talking to ‘friendly countries’ to acquire surface-to-air missile technology to counter US drone attacks in the Tribal Areas, Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar said on Tuesday. Mukhtar said the parliamentary committee on national security would meet next month to make plans for safeguarding the country’s sovereignty. He said Al Qaeda was “the greatest danger for all of us”, and that the government will not reduce the defence budget. staff report

 

[Imran Khan]

System to hit drones will be ready in a year’

ISLAMABAD: Pakistani scientists will develop a sophisticated system to hit highflying spy planes within a year, Federal Defence Production Minister Abdul Qayyum Khan Jatoi said on Tuesday. He told a private TV channel that Pakistan already had a radar system to locate and destroy spy planes but it had a limited capacity. “Concerted efforts are underway to enhance the capacity to target the intruding planes,” he said. app

 

[Imran Khan]

Pakistan will mull various options to stop US strikes: PM
* Gilani says Pakistan sought IMF help after foreseeing global recession

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will consider a number of options to stop US attacks on targets inside Pakistan, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said in a TV interview on Tuesday.

A decision on how to counter these attacks would be made by the newly formed parliamentary committee on national security, he added.

“Let the committee hold its first meeting. We have a number of options that we can consider to counter these attacks apart from going to the UN,” he said.

The prime minister denied having tacit or verbal agreement allowing US drones to hit Al Qaeda and Taliban targets inside Pakistan.

IMF: He said his government had foreseen a global economic recession and was therefore among the first countries to seek assistance from the International Monetary Fund.

The government had made some ‘unpopular decisions’ to bring financial discipline immediately after it came into power, Gilani said. “That is why the IMF loan was approved quickly.”

The prime minister said the parliament would bring a unanimous resolution on presidential powers issue in its next session.

He said he had complete authority as the prime minister and no decisions were made without his approval. “Give me one example when a decision was made without me.”

Gilani said decisions on appointments in the higher judiciary and the reinstatement of sacked chief justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry would be made in the parliament.

“Parliament is sovereign and supreme and whatever it will decide, we will accept it,” he said.

The prime minister stressed the need for honouring merit in state appointments. “If the right people are selected for the right job, 90 percent of problems of Pakistan will be solved,” he said.

Gilani said Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif had denied in a telephone conversation with him that the PML-N wanted the PPP to quit the Punjab government.
agencies/daily times monitor

 

[Kasrkin]

U.S., Pakistani Soldiers Reported Killed In Border Incident

Great, exactly the sort of thing we least needed, more reason for Pakistanis to believe slugger's defeatist version of things...

 

[EagleEyes]

Facts on the ground don't quite support your claims - Terrorists are launching attacks on NATO troops stationed in Afghanistan and then retreating back to their NWFP stronghold in Pakistan.

Yeah, so?

When it comes to Pakistan's territorial demarcation, these terrorist elements have made a joke and a complete mockery of it by travelling to and fro between Pakistan and Afghanistan without possesing valid papers to do so.

They are terrorists. Terrorists... They dont need government papers to travel where the heck they want or whatever they want to. There is a reason there is a war going on. Hello..

Ejazbhai 1 question - what will Pakistan do if the american decide to use their B-52/B-2s to carpet bomb your NWFP and eliminate all presence of terrorist elements from there, even if it is accompanied by collosal collatreal damage for Pakistan.

America will simply not do that, cause its not an idiot or even stupid enough to create such a wishful thinking.

Pakistan has absolutely no offensive capabiltiy to launch a retaliatory attack against the USA

Pakistan has all the capabilities to defend and attack the USA. Go figure.

Your American-made block-15 F-16s or JF-17s are no match for the USAF F-15/18 E/F and have absolutely no capability of reaching American mainland

Why would Pakistan want to reach the mainland. Why would Pakistan want to attack America on the first place.. oh wait we are in a wishful thinking slash dreaming mode. Ok got you.

You launch a severe protest against the US in the UN - US is a veto power country and is not affected by any sanctions

If Pakistan was serious enough to solve these "strike" issues, its air chief wouldn't be in the media giving hints (asking for the government to tell him what to do).

Ejazbhai, please tell me 1 Pakistani retaliation that would hurt the Amercians

Shooting down the UAV's would be enough. Trust me! Or you want to get nuclear weapons involved? Ok lets do it.

The fact is that that, and I appear to be repeating it over and over here, it is simple American Goodwill and outsourcing of killing that makes the Pakistani Armed forces get involved in America's attacks on Pakistan's sovereign territory

Ok, i can't understand english for a moment so i can't reply that.

For the sake of a discussion, I am even willing to overlook the fact that what you are saying is pure conjecture.

Are you then trying to tell the world that the Pakistani government is actually approving these apparently unsanctioned attacks on it Pakistani territory by US UAVs and then after the attacks have taken place Pakistan cries foul about America violating its Airspace.

I dont think it is Pakistani government which is approving it. Or it might be that way who knows. But one thing is certain, and that is true that Pakistan is really taking absolutely no major interest in stopping these air strikes. Its government and information ministry however are taking full steps to tell the public however that they don't accept the violation of their air space.

Now Pakistan not willing to take any major action against these strikes is because:

The strikes are mainly targeted against the militants, which is good for Pakistan. Combination of pressure and benefit of above however seems to be most likely a good choice.

If that is the case - you just accused the Pakistani Governemtn of being complicit in the murder of innocent Pakistani civillians

I am not sure about your country, but in most civilised country, you would have been held for charges of treason for making such a statement

Due to the complicity of this war on terror. There is no such case as above. Pakistan and U.S. cooperation fully understands that collateral damage should be minimized as much as possible. But of course when there are terrorists in the mid-its of the civilian population.. collateral damage is unavoidable. Now to me it seems.. that this is also one of the things Pakistan doesn't want to get involved in by itself, rather Pakistan let the U.S. do its job, while it applies pressure against the U.S. for any strikes in Pakistan.

These innocent Pakistani civilians merely happened to be present at the time of the attacks on the actual targets and fell prey to the Hellfires because your Governement allowed the US to use UAVs to target terrorists even when it knew innocent citizens were present in the vicinity and are surely going to be harmed when such air-borne attack is going to be launched.

Thats the only statement i would agree with. However, i think Pakistan day by day is now relying on conventional method to deal with this war rather than tolerate these air strikes. This can be seen by the recent air drone targetting exercises (which send a message) and also Mullen just today whining about bad policy effects which are now taking place between the two countries.

 

[fatman17]

My post was a long post, which part were you particularly referring to good sir? I think that Pakistan's agenda, as far as getting the Al-Qaeda leadership goes, converges a lot with US. Ofcourse there is a difference of opinion on the prioritizing of Taliban factions and their commanders, etc. But at the end of the day I think this is going to be worth it, the Americans will understand our position clearly and they will have less of a reason to go it alone in our territories.

And I don’t reckon a major change in public opinion if these drones start flying with the PAF symbol on ‘em, but it’s going to make things quite easier for us both internationally and domestically. People who sympathize with Al-Qaeda will obviously not be too happy about it, but at least they won't have reason to hide behind the banner of "Pakistani integrity" and we can shift the theme of the situation back to "PAKISTAN VS AL-QAEDA" which is the only way to win this war sooner rather than later.

P.S. Did you say just I lacked common sense Fatman sir?

i apologise if it came out like that!
my message was to our indian colleagues who were goading us on our territorial integrity and all that stuff!
you made a long post, and i felt i did not need to elaborate or confuse further!
keep up the great defence!

 

[EagleEyes]

i apologise if it came out like that!
my message was to our indian colleagues who were goading us on our territorial integrity and all that stuff!
you made a long post, and i felt i did not need to elaborate or confuse further!
keep up the great defence!

I agree with you. I can delete the nonsense, but then some people would feel really really hurt.

 

[ejaz007]

i apologise if it came out like that!
my message was to our indian colleagues who were goading us on our territorial integrity and all that stuff!
you made a long post, and i felt i did not need to elaborate or confuse further!
keep up the great defence!

The problem is that when some of our Indian friends don't have logic or facts to back up their claims they try to derail the thread. Look at the subject of the post and what we are posting.

That is the reason I generally tend to ignore this kind of behaviour simply because they drag you down to their level and then try to beat you with the experience.

 

[Kasrkin]

I think it might be suitable to have it around for reasons of posterity.

 

[fatman17]

I agree with you. I can delete the nonsense, but then some people would feel really really hurt.

the forum does not need to take such steps!
thanks,