Open Debate l Ex-UAE Mirage 2000-9s for PAF, aye or nay ?

[slapshot]

Only until the Rafale deal is 'locked in'....then India can't do anything...if it will, the IAF will be unhappy....if the Rafale tender slows because India wants to play cry baby on Mirages being sold to Pakistan.

UAE and Saudis too are negotiating Rafale, the French would be in a catch 22. We can also have Saudis buy them and once India is locked, we can buy from them.

The question was the Mirage's 'viability for PAF' under current situation.

Interesting... As I said Pakistan should get in touch with french and give some gestures of interest. This will give French some leverage in Rafael deal. Don't let India play on its own terms! They are using Rafael deal as card against Pakistan, Pakistan should keep trying similar things to keep the pressure and don't let them play by their rules. Push them to commit to the deal!

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Pakistan should go for the Mirage 2000s.


All what they need is to re-manufacture these birds, bull the trigger, and praise The Lord

 

[niaz]

There are two things to consider:

- How does Mirage 2000 compare with F-16 mlu? In my view the two aircrafts have similar capabilities. One mustn’t ignore the fact the introduction of a new plane involves substantial logistical, training & maintenance support which can be quite onerous. Shouldn’t we go for additional F-16 instead,

- UAE Defence is a federal matter thus primarily controlled by Abu Dhabi. Is Abu Dhabi willing to let us have these planes cheap? I wouldn’t think so.

Based on the above I am not in favour of buying second hand Mirage 2000 unless we can get these really cheap. I would prefer to spend the limited funds available to PAF money on Chinese F-20 or F-16 mlu/block 52 or on F-17.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

We don't need mirage 2000.Old tech old airframe and Waste of money... they will become mig21 type fighter in 2020...

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

We don't need mirage 2000.Old tech old airframe and Waste of money... they will become mig21 type fighter in 2020...

What an anology.

Anyway, if there is going to be an upgrade - a MAJOR upgrade - these jets may suit the PAF the best.

 

[bc040400065]

We don't need mirage 2000.Old tech old airframe and Waste of money... they will become mig21 type fighter in 2020...

Then why PAF wanted the same M2K's avionics for its JFT?? Why PAF was willling to buy the same radar and weapons of M2k-9 for JFT?

 

[graphican]

What an anology.
Anyway, if there is going to be an upgrade - a MAJOR upgrade - these jets may suit the PAF the best.

Do remember how much money French has redeemed from India for upgrading their Mirage. India could have got new planes for the money they are paying for upgrades. For us, it won't be a sane deal.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Do remember how much money French has redeemed from India for upgrading their Mirage. India could have got new planes for the money they are paying for upgrades. For us, it won't be a sane deal.

Interesting. Anyways, the UAE has 30 Mirages which are still up to date, along with 8 trainers. If there is going to be an upgrade then the list won't exceed 30 warplanes.

 

[Contrarian]

We don't need mirage 2000.Old tech old airframe and Waste of money... they will become mig21 type fighter in 2020...

The Mirage 2009 - which is what UAE owns - is an extremely potent fighter. It is almost as good as the F-16 Blk 52.
If inducted by the PAF would probably be the front line/leading edge aircraft of PAF along with the F-16's and if inducted in numbers would make more issues for India than double the number of JF-17's would.

The UAE will serve PAF till 2025 easily.

And the Indian experience with the Mirage's has been extra ordinary - very high availability rates and low maintenance. And those are Mirage 2000.

So it should fit in easily with PAF requirements.
Infact @MastanKhan would give you more information on it.

 

[sancho]

There are two things to consider:

- How does Mirage 2000 compare with F-16 mlu? In my view the two aircrafts have similar capabilities.

Not at all, the Mirage is vastly superior to the F16s of PAF! Far better EW capabilits, HOBS missiles, cruise and now also stand off missile strike capability, not to mention that they can be refuelled by PAFs IL 78 tankers too. Today the M2K-9 is technically superior to anything PAF has, BUT (at that is the crucial point!) not to a J10B or JF 17 block 3 that could be added at similar or even lower costs, within the next 2 to 5 years.
None of them are game changers from an operational point of view, but an upgraded JF 17 to propper 4.5th gen level, is clearly more useful for PAF.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Pakistani children are placing the same bets on J10 as they did on the JF17. They have been duped by the PAF into believing---it is ours and it is sanction prooof. But they keep forgetting that these aircrafts will mature in years to come.

It just like some one has malaria and you keep telling them to wait because you are trying experiments on newer medicine that will work better---but the problem is that you want the treatment now---and not later.

The package that those mirage 09's have is more potent than the BLK 52's we have---but is it feasableto procure this aircraft now.

PAF took a big gamble on the security of pakistan by going for the JF17---assuming that there would be no conflict. So---it is up in the air now---.

If pak had purchased rafales in 2004---we would have a peace deal signed with india by now---. With the JF17's---it won't happen.

 

[Pinnacle]

First of all a big NO to the mirages, because PAF is not stupid enough to ruin or cut the sales of the JF-17 as it is the direct competitor to M2Ks. and if in case, PAF is willing to get them and have love for those mirages then i dont think so, French would be agreed to transfer these fighters to Pakistan untill MRCA deal with india is not finalised or signed.

 

[baqai]

I voted no for the following reasons,

1. We would need to invest in infrastructure for the new platform, just because we have been operating Mirage platform does not mean they are all the same.

2. We should rather spend the same amount of money to increase our fleet of JF-17's and/or to improve that platform because in the longer run that would be much better investment for us than those french mirages with certain air time on airframe.

 

[t_for_talli]

First of all a big NO to the mirages, because PAF is not stupid enough to ruin or cut the sales of the JF-17 as it is the direct competitor to M2Ks. and if in case, PAF is willing to get them and have love for those mirages then i dont think so, French would be agreed to transfer these fighters to Pakistan untill MRCA deal with india is not finalised or signed.

M09 are superior to your F 16 bk 52
JF17 and Mirage are in different class; Chinese BVR is no match for French weapon package in M09

 

[jupiter2007]

I would rather have FC-20/J-11 than M09.

Pakistan already has 50 Jf-17. Pakistan need to increase the JF-17 block 2 production from 10 planes to 25 planes per year.