The Struggle for Self-Reliance in the PAF

[Storm Force]

STICKING to the TOPIC alone and ignoring pakistani econmic failures

I ASK THE QUESTION especially to azad pakistani & co

IF THE CHINEASE stop sending the parts for license aessmbly of JFT or the russian engines or the chinease missles & radar where would that leave this programme.

License building 3 AGOSTA subs with french assistance does not mean you can build a indengious PAK submarine.

Pak missle industry has massive chinease & noth korean influence.

dont get me wrong

indian license build of SU30MKI would stop tonite if russians stopped sending spares too.

LIKEWISE without russian assistance brahmos cruise missle would not exist. AND india has piggy backed on to the FGFA fighter programme wit russia.

WE two nations are stil too reliant on our allies.

ONLY INDIA HAS FAR MORE DOLLARS $$$ and far more allies to work with than pakistan

 

[SQ8]

STICKING to the TOPIC alone and ignoring pakistani econmic failures

I ASK THE QUESTION especially to azad pakistani & co

IF THE CHINEASE stop sending the parts for license aessmbly of JFT or the russian engines or the chinease missles & radar where would that leave this programme.

License building 3 AGOSTA subs with french assistance does not mean you can build a indengious PAK submarine.

Pak missle industry has massive chinease & noth korean influence.

dont get me wrong

indian license build of SU30MKI would stop tonite if russians stopped sending spares too.

LIKEWISE without russian assistance brahmos cruise missle would not exist. AND india has piggy backed on to the FGFA fighter programme wit russia.

WE two nations are stil too reliant on our allies.

ONLY INDIA HAS FAR MORE DOLLARS $$$ and far more allies to work with than pakistan

Only the fuselage and engines would be affected.
the rest will soon be manufactured here locally using local fabrication.
Your idea of licence production is answered in the JF-17 mean thread.. please refer to it to correct your flawed perceptions.

 

[VCheng]

Only the fuselage and engines would be affected.
the rest will soon be manufactured here locally using local fabrication.
Your idea of licence production is answered in the JF-17 mean thread.. please refer to it to correct your flawed perceptions.

The important part is to manufacture, not assemble.

True manufacturing ability would give Pakistan the foundation for not only keeping these airframes flying for as long as it needs them, but also to create newer designs. Mere assembly, on the other hand, will land it in the same situation as it did with the Mirages.

 

[airmarshal]

Plz Note Than There are Many Nations Like Bangladesh and Srilanka which have done BETTER, MUCH Better Economically than Pakistan, Pakistan Never Lacked the Intellectual Man Power but the Political Will and Foresightedness.

The Point is NOT what One Patriotic Pakistani National May Think ( " All is Good" ), but the reality which exists.

And the Reality is, India is getting Closer to China ( Check Naval and Air Power Projection in Real Terms , by 2020 ) , while Pakistan is Facing Huge Huge Shortage of Funds,being the main cause of the ruins of PAF/PN .

Having said this, one may observe factually that India is Almost Spending $60-80 Billion Annualy, and the Important Factor is the % Increase in recent Years. Yes, Pakistan Has Lower needs but Rate of Increase of Funds is Negligible , the Economy to be blamed.

Brother AzadPakistan, When, you Gonna Face an Indian Nuclear Sub or an Air Craft Carrier or a Stealth Fighter ( Not Just Planned BUT BUT BUT....All Three within 3 Years of Reach ) , You cant Say Im satified.. we doing gr8.... Blah Blah Blah..... It wont Work.

To Conclude. Wake Up b4 its Too Late.

Well said. For that we need a visionary government and its people's responsibility to vote carefully for only those who can take the country forward.

 

[SQ8]

The important part is to manufacture, not assemble.

True manufacturing ability would give Pakistan the foundation for not only keeping these airframes flying for as long as it needs them, but also to create newer designs. Mere assembly, on the other hand, will land it in the same situation as it did with the Mirages.

Which requires industries..
The alloys for the airframe are known and there were proposals to set up a plant here but thanks to the new government.. never came through.. Electronics are "manufactured" locally as such as circuit manufacture is commonplace now.
The problem lies with taking the process.. from raw materials to final product..and that is not there.
Bits and pieces.. such as the canopy, Cables/wiring/ Stressed structure fabrication(spar and beams etc) electrical fittings..
are now local. But the alloy plates to create those structures and otherwise are all imported.

 

[VCheng]

Which requires industries..
The alloys for the airframe are known and there were proposals to set up a plant here but thanks to the new government.. never came through.. Electronics are "manufactured" locally as such as circuit manufacture is commonplace now.
The problem lies with taking the process.. from raw materials to final product..and that is not there.
Bits and pieces.. such as the canopy, Cables/wiring/ Stressed structure fabrication(spar and beams etc) electrical fittings..
are now local. But the alloy plates to create those structures and otherwise are all imported.

Exactly correct. Unless there is a proper industrial base to provide the required manufacturing ability, even well designed projects like the JF-17 will fall way short of their true potential.

 

[SQ8]

Exactly correct. Unless there is a proper industrial base to provide the required manufacturing ability, even well designed projects like the JF-17 will fall way short of their true potential.

Which is why when the proponents of a certain man who occupies a flat in Kensington ,London sing operas of the wonderful economic times he supposedly gave.. I disagree by saying that in times where he could have pushed for greater industrialization and a permanent backbone.. he gave a fools paradise of consumerism and no actual progress.
The PPP then took it down worse due to their sheer corruption and incompetent attitude.

 

[VCheng]

Which is why when the proponents of a certain man who occupies a flat in Kensington ,London sing operas of the wonderful economic times he supposedly gave.. I disagree by saying that in times where he could have pushed for greater industrialization and a permanent backbone.. he gave a fools paradise of consumerism and no actual progress.
The PPP then took it down worse due to their sheer corruption and incompetent attitude.

Very good. A fool's paradise of consumerism (half of it undocumented) is indeed not a substitute for true economic strength. Now can you please make Riaz Haq understand that?

 

[SQ8]

Very good. A fool's paradise of consumerism (half of it undocumented) is indeed not a substitute for true economic strength. Now can you please make Riaz Haq understand that?

Everybody is entitled to their views.

 

[VCheng]

Everybody is entitled to their views.

Oh I have no problem accepting that. But what if leaders capable of influencing others try to lead everyone astray?

 

[SQ8]

Oh I have no problem accepting that. But what if leaders capable of influencing others try to lead everyone astray?

Isnt that everyone's problem? After all.. if people insist on listening to Nero's fiddle while Rome burns.. .. .. ....

 

[VCheng]

Isnt that everyone's problem? After all.. if people insist on listening to Nero's fiddle while Rome burns.. .. .. ....

You do make a good point here!

I hope people are enjoying the modern day equivalent of Nero's concert while their homes burn down.

 

[MilSpec]

Only the fuselage and engines would be affected.
the rest will soon be manufactured here locally using local fabrication.
Your idea of licence production is answered in the JF-17 mean thread.. please refer to it to correct your flawed perceptions.

Radar, Engine, Hydraulics control systems, A2A/A2G Missiles all will be locally manufactured?

 

[SQ8]

Radar, Engine, Hydraulics control systems, A2A/A2G Missiles all will be locally manufactured?

The rest implies..

Control systems, Circuit interfaces.. electronic interconnection components, Hydraulics and Fuselage will be manufactured(or assembled) locally.
Engine will remain imported as will other systems such as radar/ECm/Radio and certain Spars.
Weaponry is not "part" of the aircraft.

 

[VCheng]

The rest implies..

Control systems, Circuit interfaces.. electronic interconnection components, Hydraulics and Fuselage will be manufactured (or assembled) locally.
Engine will remain imported as will other systems such as radar/ECm/Radio and certain Spars.
Weaponry is not "part" of the aircraft.

Assembly is simply not enough for true self-reliance. It must be moved forward to manufacture.