Open Debate l Ex-UAE Mirage 2000-9s for PAF, aye or nay ?

[Last Samuri]

UAE will not be getting rafale or typhoon until at least 2018.which means no sale of mirage 2000 for minimum four possibly five years ie 2019.since the euro canards will cost UAE around 10)billion dollars for 68 jets my guesd they will be looking for somewhere between 20/25 million each for these jets or 1.5 billion for total package...that's big bucks for a used jet...

I actually think they may end with the Indians who won't mind spending this money with ease on a jet they know very well

 

[Mitro]

Paf will not spend dim on m2k when they have jf17 in same class it will send wrong signal to future jf-17 customer .
M2k does not bring anything new then jf-17
Jf-17 have future to upgrade and paf dont depend on other nation for parts or avionics but M2k french will squize paf for future upgrade and parts thats why paf bought libyan mirage for parts.
Lots of people are talking about pakistan dont have money to buy but actually the platform they are looking to buy are not ready yet they are in development like chinese sub,j10b.
If they dont have money then how they paid for f22p,erieyes,zdk awacs,a100 mrlv,

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

No point to waste money on Mirage 2000

 

[saikumar]

If pakistan buys mirage 2000,spares would be difficult to procure

 

[MilSpec]

m2K's with 09/m2k upgrade costed UAE around 35-40 mil per plane, even at half price it would be more expensive than the JF17/FC1

What advantages does the MK2 bring in comparison with the JF17?

What would be an acceptable price for the UAE M2K's?

What would be the additional costs for the Mirage 2000 inventory, service and overhaul costs, as it doesn't share a single interchangeable component with the mirage 3 series. ?

Does adding another air-frame with a max 15-20 years of life justify to build an entire service spare portfolio instead of system consolidation by increasing Jf17 order book or F16 order-book?

With France snubbing JF17 avionics package, and India possessing the same upgraded Mirages, what are the strategic implication of integrating congruent platforms with the main rival from france?

What would prompt such a procurement, as the strategic equation in the region has not changed

 

[araz]

If the UAE sells them to us at a fair price, we can turn the Mirage rebuild factory into a Mirage-2000-9 refurbishment and spares facility.

PAF has highly competent flight maintainance crew, and i'm hopeful that it won't take them long to adapt to the Dash9's.

These jets are state of the art, right between our Block 52s and JF-17s. They will allow us to maintain a 'credible and potent, single engine Hi-Lo mix'.

Such a mix of Vipers,Mirages and Thunders, integrated along with AEW&C, EW assets and a Network Centric Air Defense net, would be enough to defeat the enemy air crafts inside 'our' airspace for the forseeable future.

@shanixee

If you have nothing to contibute here, then you are free to opt out.

Yaar.
The topic has been discussed to death. Why open another thread. however, I want to clear a few misconceptions.
A. The misconception that Mirage rebuild factory can somehow be converted into M2K rebuild factory is a myth. For instance the f16 rebuild factory can cater to Bl 15 but not to block 40/42s. There are so many changes between M2K and M3s/5s that it would be impossible to do so.
B. Even if you could do so do you think the French would provide you cheap technology transfer when they have already given you the royal Salute when it came to the RC400 radar and other tech.
C. The UAE selling you M2Ks is another myht that needs to be dispelled. The UAE canot sell you any part of M2Ks without French approval and you aint getting that in current environment. The armie De Aire had 58 M2k5s for sale when PAF last made enquiries and why they would let you buy from UAE, and not sell you; if at all; would be something quite bizarre.
D. Even if the french had a lapse of memory and forgot that they are in advanced stages of a 10-15 billion$ contract for the rafale:
1.Where will you get the money from ?
2. What impact will it have on your production of JFT.
You dont have enough money to buy the second batch of 50 planes and want China to offer you a handout and then you screw them, the chances of any sale of your own plane. By going on and buying french single engined aircrafts which are no longer built, will need to have infrastructure built , will be dreadfully expensive, you will piss off the US as well who will give you f16s for MLU at the same price/even less and kill off any chances of buying J10s in the near /distant future. This whole thread is a waste of time and in my view should never have been started.the fact that it was started by someone whose posts I bother to read is even more disappointing.
I think it is time an obituary is written of the M2K saga once and for all.
Araz

 

[Zarvan]

Hello ladies and gents.

Currently we have 63 F_16s in total with the old block 15s being upgraded to Block-52 standards.

AEW&C = SAAB Erieye

A total of 250 JF-17 Thunders will be bought by the PAF in 3 blocks.

50 odd F-7PGs are likely to see service beyond 2020, mainly for OCU and not for frontline roles.

AEW&C = ZDK-3 Karakoram Eagle

If we exclude the F-7PGs which would be outdated by 2020 as per our threat analysis, we are left with 250 thunders + 65 F-16s (two more may join soon) = 315 Multirole Fighter jets.

315 Advance jets with force multipliers like AEW&C and IFR, Networked air defense is a 'good deterence' against our principle threat.

Since the FC-20 MMRCA's future is now bleak due to the economic mismanagment of the PPP govt, would it make sense for PAF to buy the 65 odd EX-UAE Mirage-2000-9s along with its weapons packag, as a 'stopgap' till 2025, when we might be able to procure or operationalize a 5th gen platform?

Those dash 9's are still very advanced, which would be able to datalink with our Eri Eyes, F-16s, JF-17s and other assets.

Please discuss.

* Strengths of such a procurement.
* Weaknesses of such a procurement
* Difficulties in creating the ground infrastructure.
* Maintainance
* Spareparts
* Refurbishment
* Operational effectivene* Operational effectivene* Operational effectivene* Operational effectiveness/role
* Price we should offer for them
* Pilot training
* Weapons package
* Any upgrades
* Cost to benefit ratio
___________________

Please keep it civil.

Aero.

Well if they are coming almost free and we have to give very few price for it and only for upgrade of older versions than I am all for it other wise stay away so it depends on UAE how open heart they are ready to show because our economy sucks these days @Oscar @Aeronaut and others

 

[M.AsfandYar]

i dont think it will be a good idea , it will be burden on Paf , plus our enemy is looking for aircrafts like su30mki and rafale , we should use this money for j-10b or j-11

i agree we should go for J-10B or C.

 

[Basel]

For PAF M2Ks era is gone specially after French denied systems for JF-17s due to IAF's MMRCA, because if we got them cheap from UAE some how they could become headache due to very small pool of available aircraft around the world and France will be highly influenced by India so they can become more trouble then sanctioned F-16s.

There are many more operators of F-16s then M2Ks therefore PAF can get those old F-16s like they got Mirage-IIIs & Vs from around the world to keep them running and many airforces will be retiring them for 5th gen fighters from 2020.

 

[danger007]

Hello ladies and gents.

Currently we have 63 F_16s in total with the old block 15s being upgraded to Block-52 standards.

AEW&C = SAAB Erieye

A total of 250 JF-17 Thunders will be bought by the PAF in 3 blocks.

50 odd F-7PGs are likely to see service beyond 2020, mainly for OCU and not for frontline roles.

AEW&C = ZDK-3 Karakoram Eagle

If we exclude the F-7PGs which would be outdated by 2020 as per our threat analysis, we are left with 250 thunders + 65 F-16s (two more may join soon) = 315 Multirole Fighter jets.

315 Advance jets with force multipliers like AEW&C and IFR, Networked air defense is a 'good deterence' against our principle threat.

Since the FC-20 MMRCA's future is now bleak due to the economic mismanagment of the PPP govt, would it make sense for PAF to buy the 65 odd EX-UAE Mirage-2000-9s along with its weapons packag, as a 'stopgap' till 2025, when we might be able to procure or operationalize a 5th gen platform?

Those dash 9's are still very advanced, which would be able to datalink with our Eri Eyes, F-16s, JF-17s and other assets.

Please discuss.

* Strengths of such a procurement.
* Weaknesses of such a procurement
* Difficulties in creating the ground infrastructure.
* Maintainance
* Spareparts
* Refurbishment
* Operational effectivene* Operational effectivene* Operational effectivene* Operational effectiveness/role
* Price we should offer for them
* Pilot training
* Weapons package
* Any upgrades
* Cost to benefit ratio
___________________

Please keep it civil.

Aero.

Currently PAF received 50th JF-17.... so can PAF receive 250th JFT by 2020??? I don't see any advantage of having m2k in PAF...which is mastered by IAF pilots... I don't think it is good Idea....unless PAF got plenty money to waste.

 

[HAIDER]

French will never let UAE to pass on these fighter to PAF, even UAE willing to give it free. Remember Rafale deal is so dear to French and India will create all direct or indirect obstacle for the UAE Mirage.

 

[Kompromat]

French will never let UAE to pass on these fighter to PAF, even UAE willing to give it free. Remember Rafale deal is so dear to French and India will create all direct or indirect obstacle for the UAE Mirage.

Only until the Rafale deal is 'locked in'....then India can't do anything...if it will, the IAF will be unhappy....if the Rafale tender slows because India wants to play cry baby on Mirages being sold to Pakistan.

UAE and Saudis too are negotiating Rafale, the French would be in a catch 22. We can also have Saudis buy them and once India is locked, we can buy from them.

The question was the Mirage's 'viability for PAF' under current situation.

 

[alimobin memon]

Thing to worry about is if rafale deal is off that money might eventually go for Typhoons which in my opinion are fierce or what if that money is invested in getting more fgfa ?

 

[Kompromat]

Thing to worry about is if rafale deal is off that money might eventually go for Typhoons which in my opinion are fierce or what if that money is invested in getting more fgfa ?

Typhoons are way too expensive and don't quite fill the role for a ground attack capability IAF wanted.

Again, please stick to the topic.

 

[alimobin memon]

Typhoons are way too expensive and don't quite fill the role for a ground attack capability IAF wanted.

Again, please stick to the topic.

Nope We dont need it Our F16 from West is enough. Jf17 has All the capabilities of any 4th or 4.5th generation Capabilities if something is missing will surely come in Coming years.