Open Debate l Ex-UAE Mirage 2000-9s for PAF, aye or nay ?

[Kompromat]

Swiss air force wanted EF and Rafale, but ended up with Gripen, why? Because the country can't afford more. Same goes for Brazil, so it doesn't matter what an air force wants, the first question is always, can the country afford it?
Also important is the question when this M2Ks could be available for PAF, since they can't be procured unless the UAE has replacements available. So would M2K-9 make sense if they come only by 2018?

2018 Will be a comfortable window for either these Mirages or Norwegien F-16s.

 

[Basel]

M2Ks are not Mirage-IIIs which were available from around the world to keep PAF's inventory, only F-16s offer similar capacity because it has been mass produced and still in production for some years.

 

[Kompromat]

@Basel

Ex Norwegien F-16s around 57 odd upgraded with MLU-M5 too can be a good deal for PAF.Around 120 odd Block 52 standard air crafts are a good deterence.

 

[Basel]

@Basel
Ex Norwegien F-16s around 57 odd upgraded with MLU-M5 too can be a good deal for PAF.Around 120 odd Block 52 standard air crafts are a good deterence.

True, and it seems PAF also think the same for F-16s that is why they had gone for the purchase of those block 50/52+ versions and the MLU for the older ones. But what is important is when PAF can take its inventory to around 100+, if they can do it prior to 2018 then they will serve good after that they may not have front line role may be stop gap like our mirages.

 

[sancho]

2018 Will be a comfortable window for either these Mirages or Norwegien F-16s.

Although you can get technologically more capable JF 17s or J10 before that? Why would you want to limit PAF with 4th gen techs, when they can have 4.5th gen techs by then?

 

[Last Samuri]

UAE mirage sale will not happen I think.

France will not jepodise relations with India and without French backing the transfer you will not get the fighter.

The other reason is French weapons are very exprnsive. And paf does not do expensive.

Those use fighters will go back to France I think around 2020..this is how long it will take to supply 60 rafale to UAE...

Ps I just herd india will sign the rafale deal in the next four weeks....

 

[Quwa]

To be honest, the only Western fighters that have a chance of joining PAF are Block-52+ F-16s and the Typhoon. The F-16 is a no-brainer, existing infrastructure, maturity, still in production for another few years, etc. The Typhoon? Well besides KSA and Oman, we have Qatar, Bahrain and Kuwait considering it. It's probably the most prolific 4.5 generation fighter in service (outside of US and Russian planes). If Pakistan could summon the cash the Typhoon would be an option, guaranteed. The real choker is the lack of cash, but if enough were available, the Typhoon would be a second behind new F-16s.

 

[Kompromat]

Although you can get technologically more capable JF 17s or J10 before that? Why would you want to limit PAF with 4th gen techs, when they can have 4.5th gen techs by then?

* Yes the Block-III, JF-17s would be available and replacing our legacy jets. They still would be the 2nd teir of PAF.

* J-10B/C or whatever specs FC-20 is supposed to be, it seems very unlikely as the lack of funds, and the lack of a reliable Chinese engine, makes it hard.

I personally think that if we buy surplus dash 9, Mirages, or Norwegien MLU-M-V Vipers, it will give us the ability to save up for a 5th gen platform in the next 10 years.

The trick is Cash....if we have it, we can buy J-31s or any other platform. That meets our air defence needs.

 

[sancho]

* Yes the Block-III, JF-17s would be available and replacing our legacy jets. They still would be the 2nd teir of PAF.

On what basis? Even Block 1 and 2 offer credible advantages over the F16s, a Block 3 with AESA radar, IRST, improved avionics and weapon carrying capabilities will be far ahead of the F16 B52 or even the M2K-9.
And when cash is the issue, inducting modernised JF17s is cheaper than inducting 2nd hand F16s or M2Ks.

 

[Kompromat]

On what basis? Even Block 1 and 2 offer credible advantages over the F16s, a Block 3 with AESA radar, IRST, improved avionics and weapon carrying capabilities will be far ahead of the F16 B52 or even the M2K-9.
And when cash is the issue, inducting modernised JF17s is cheaper than inducting 2nd hand F16s or M2Ks.

Block-III will not be a super advanced machine either. Our first requirement is 'cost effectiveness'. It will just be an upgraded block-2 unless economy recovers and we are able to buy some open market gear.

F-16s will remain the top teir, unless we buy the FC-20 which is out of our affordability.

 

[Last Samuri]

I would be shocked if Pakistan acquired typhoons they are so dam expensive...one typhoon costs 100m and for that money you get five thunders or two f16/52....


Realisticlly I think second hand f16s wil be pafs best bet followed by grant aided or soft loans for j10 b

Even the uae mirage 2000 wil be too costly without grant aid from the Arabs

 

[trident2010]

Not a good idea to get a Mirage. Better to get more F-16s and JF-17s.

 

[Last Samuri]

Pakistanis love and trust French military hardware. They have great trust in the mirage series and wanted to add French radars and mica bvrs recently for thunder. But as always the extortionate French cost put the Pakistani air force right off.

For this reason I can't see mirage 2000 from UAE ever arriving

 

[Luftwaffe]

Pakistanis love and trust French military hardware. They have great trust in the mirage series and wanted to add French radars and mica bvrs recently for thunder. But as always the extortionate French cost put the Pakistani air force right off.

For this reason I can't see mirage 2000 from UAE ever arriving

There are many reasons, for example one reason even if a handful are procured PAF would have to integrate various arsenal/weapons test them on Mirage -9s like r'aad air launch cruise missiles etc for every platform the test are right from the scratch. I think the chances were during 2001-2010 but that time is gone and the corruption/funds by musharraf government also gave in a severe blow for example like with 77 F-16s slashing them to 18. It is best that in order to mature and develop the platform like JF-17 all focus and funds be diverted to this particular project rather than going after these 24 and 15 years old airframes.

Block-III will not be a super advanced machine either. Our first requirement is 'cost effectiveness'. It will just be an upgraded block-2 unless economy recovers and we are able to buy some open market gear.

Does it mean no AESA and IRST in Block III either.

 

[Kompromat]

@Luftwaffe

I can't say anything apart from guess work as Block-III lies on a piece of paper in the shape of operational requirements. I'm hopeful about, AESA, HMD, new avionics and a better engine. IRST can be podded.