Now what for PAF JH7B or SU 35, but both will be a psychological edge over our adversary

[Erroroverload]

PAF doctrine is to defend our territory, not attacking on enemy, We don't need costly long-range heavys. If their is need, then we can get them on very short notice. Stop creating wishlist threads, PDF is already full of these, next time do some search and post you wishes in respective thread. Period.

and when the need will come?. when the enemy is destroying you and we have nothing to do but just wait and see.
come on just get out of this defensive doctrine best way to defend is to improve your offensive capabilities.

 

[Zain Malik]

No, nothing like the SU-35 is coming brother, the quicker people accept this the better. Daydreaming about jets the PAF can't afford, won't be sold to them and which have never be flown before by PAF pilots is just counterproductive.

Then what options PAF has instead of SU-35........If you really think SU-35 is not coming to Pakistan......What PAF will do to counter rafales....

 

[Nefarious]

Forget about 4.5 Gen, best thing is to invest in J31 and do similar to what they did with JF-17. Unless China exports J-20 which is highly unlikely.

 

[JamD]

A lot of the new and young posters here come with the following thesis:
"We can do anything if we put our mind to it. We have to get everything from F-22s to F-35s and SU-35s. The only reason we aren't acquiring these is because of lack of imagination, lack of vision and incompetence."

I will admit there was a time when I may have also held such a world view. I can understand it comes from a good place. Unfortunately it is rather flawed because it is an argument of convenience. You can make the same lack of vision/imagination and incompetence argument about anything. There is no real substance behind it. Also you ignore almost everything of the real world like economics, world politics, practicality.

The real world is a disappointment to one's delusions of grandeur and invincibility. The real world needs pragmatism. As someone who has gone through the phase (at least I hope its a phase) some of the young posters here are going through, my advice is this: please try to learn about the topic you feel the need to speak on extensively. If you want to discredit a decision please first try to understand the reasons such a decision was made. Don't just assume 'lack of imagination' and 'incompetence'. Listen more, talk less. Always remember real wisdom is humble.

Also, if what I say offends anyone i apologize. If you feel the need to insult me, please go ahead. I will pretend I am batman, not the hero this forum deserves but the hero it needs lololol I kid.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

A lot of the new and young posters here come with the following thesis:
"We can do anything if we put our mind to it. We have to get everything from F-22s to F-35s and SU-35s. The only reason we aren't acquiring these is because of lack of imagination, lack of vision and incompetence."

I will admit there was a time when I may have also held such a world view. I can understand it comes from a good place. Unfortunately it is rather flawed because it is an argument of convenience. You can make the same lack of vision/imagination and incompetence argument about anything. There is no real substance behind it. Also you ignore almost everything of the real world like economics, world politics, practicality.

The real world is a disappointment to one's delusions of grandeur and invincibility. The real world needs pragmatism. As someone who has gone through the phase (at least I hope its a phase) some of the young posters here are going through, my advice is this: please try to learn about the topic you feel the need to speak on extensively. If you want to discredit a decision please first try to understand the reasons such a decision was made. Don't just assume 'lack of imagination' and 'incompetence'. Listen more, talk less. Always remember real wisdom is humble.

Also, if what I say offends anyone i apologize. If you feel the need to insult me, please go ahead. I will pretend I am batman, not the hero this forum deserves but the hero it needs lololol I kid.

There are thousands of POSTS on PDF for acquiring new Fighter planes for PAF
But Very few for Improving and strengthening Pakistani economy

Or reducing the external debt burden

Without a strong economy ; nothing can happen

The prices of modern and high tech weapons has increased rapidly and DRAMATICALLY
all over the world in the last Five years

 

[MastanKhan]

Yes they are. The F-16 is the worlds most potent dog-fighter, and the latest F-16's have got incredible BVR capability. The block 52's can handle the Rafale, especially when you consider our pilots are far superior to India's. Although, I think we should go for the block 60, or maybe even the F-16V. I mean, block 60 is considered a cheaper alternative to the F-35.

Sir,

Please cut the B S about " our pilots "---indian pilots are as superior as pakistani pilots.

You don't put idiots to fly the su30 and M2Ks and Mig 29's etc.

The indians are better in cricket than you---better in wrestling---better in target shooting---better in hockey---better in medal count during athletic meets---they are better in discipline---what else!

 

[Silicon0000]

and when the need will come?. when the enemy is destroying you and we have nothing to do but just wait and see.
come on just get out of this defensive doctrine best way to defend is to improve your offensive capabilities.

Right now we need precision strike capability on atleast in JF17, which currently limited to F16 only.

In overall situation we are strong enough to keep enemy away from full flagged war.

our current war have different needs, and we have to act according to that.

By the way what will you do right now if you have heavys?

 

[Humble Analyst]

PAF doctrine is to defend our territory, not attacking on enemy, We don't need costly long-range heavys. If their is need, then we can get them on very short notice. Stop creating wishlist threads, PDF is already full of these, next time do some search and post you wishes in respective thread. Period.

Calling this doctrine is putting the head in the sand like an ostrich. The real reason is because of our finances and lack of planning we cannot afford deep strike planes. Also we have become used to our comfort zone of having familiar planes, trained personnel and combat tactics training is same as well save a few tactics added as per new planes inducted by possible adversaries. Given the fact that we lack depth in terrain we need more than anybody else medium to deep strike platforms to prevent enemy from having air superiority within 24 hours of break of hostilities. If we do not think of this we will loose all the AWACS, Airborne tankers and forward operating bases. Our Army, Navy and civilians will be at the mercy of enemy planes. So please stop calling this doctrine. This is not doctrine it is pigeon closing the eyes seeing a cat and day dreaming calling it doctrine. What stops India is Nuclear capability and Air Force is not the real deterrent. We Pakistanis tend to be sentimental rather than practical like many other non practical nations who are not really ready for the real World.

 

[Zain Malik]

Sir,

Please cut the B S about " our pilots "---indian pilots are as superior as pakistani pilots.

You don't put idiots to fly the su30 and M2Ks and Mig 29's etc.

The indians are better in cricket than you---better in wrestling---better in target shooting---better in hockey---better in medal count during athletic meets---they are better in discipline---what else!

Are you mad.....Discouraging your own nation....Well cant expect from senior members....

 

[Taygibay]

AESA upgrade on F-16s will undo any advantage Rafale has over PAF.

Respectfully boss, no!

2) JF17 block-III upgraded with AESA,IRST and capable EW suit alongwith next gen BVR and WVR AAms. (may be available from 2018 roughly along with delivery of Rafales to India).

First choice all the way!

What PAF will do to counter rafales....

Maybe Zain, you just don't get it that it may not be PAF's job alone to counter Bharati Rafales.

Matching PAF to IAF numbers will never happen, I repeat : never!
A strong ground based air defense is feasible for Pakistan. North of Kamra & Risalpur, jets will
be needed but for the rest of the Indian border, better longer ranged missiles will do just as well.

Then there are options like politics! If Pakistan doesn't intend to attack India again or soon,
it can use friendships with other states to lower the menace quite effectively at a lower cost.

As last resort, there's always peace! If no two-front war materializes in the next 3 decades,
India will have paid infamous French costs for nothing ... in which case, let's hope for them that the ToT will have gone well?

And that's just a quick sketch, there are many complementary options.

And a great day all, Tay.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Sir,

Please cut the B S about " our pilots "---indian pilots are as superior as pakistani pilots.

You don't put idiots to fly the su30 and M2Ks and Mig 29's etc.

The indians are better in cricket than you---better in wrestling---better in target shooting---better in hockey---better in medal count during athletic meets---they are better in discipline---what else!

Many many Thanks for these nice words

 

[Zain Malik]

Respectfully boss, no!



First choice all the way!



Maybe Zain, you just don't get it that it may not be PAF's job alone to counter Bharati Rafales.

Matching PAF to IAF numbers will never happen, I repeat : never!
A strong ground based air defense is feasible for Pakistan. North of Kamra & Risalpur, jets will
be needed but for the rest of the Indian border, better longer ranged missiles will do just as well.

Then there are options like politics! If Pakistan doesn't intend to attack India again or soon,
it can use friendships with other states to lower the menace quite effectively at a lower cost.

As last resort, there's always peace! If no two-front war materializes in the next 3 decades,
India will have paid infamous French costs for nothing ... in which case, let's hope for them that the ToT will have gone well?

And that's just a quick sketch, there are many complementary options.

And a great day all, Tay.

Good Thoughts.....Appreciate you.....
But matter is not just from Pakistan...
Who will told India how to live happy and peacefully.....???

 

[MastanKhan]

Are you mad.....Discouraging your own nation....Well cant expect from senior members....

Hi,

No--it is not discouraging my nation---but to get the head out the a----ole that it is stuck in.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Sir,

Please cut the B S about " our pilots "---indian pilots are as superior as pakistani pilots.

You don't put idiots to fly the su30 and M2Ks and Mig 29's etc.

The indians are better in cricket than you---better in wrestling---better in target shooting---better in hockey---better in medal count during athletic meets---they are better in discipline---what else!

Thank you @MastanKhan but we Pakistanis will never wake up will never wakeup. Still pidrum Sultan bood attitude prevails.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Respectfully boss, no!



First choice all the way!



Maybe Zain, you just don't get it that it may not be PAF's job alone to counter Bharati Rafales.

Matching PAF to IAF numbers will never happen, I repeat : never!
A strong ground based air defense is feasible for Pakistan. North of Kamra & Risalpur, jets will
be needed but for the rest of the Indian border, better longer ranged missiles will do just as well.

Then there are options like politics! If Pakistan doesn't intend to attack India again or soon,
it can use friendships with other states to lower the menace quite effectively at a lower cost.

As last resort, there's always peace! If no two-front war materializes in the next 3 decades,
India will have paid infamous French costs for nothing ... in which case, let's hope for them that the ToT will have gone well?

And that's just a quick sketch, there are many complementary options.

And a great day all, Tay.

We are acquiring these weapons ONLY to prevent a war

The Biggest deterrent for war is to be PREPARED for War