Now what for PAF JH7B or SU 35, but both will be a psychological edge over our adversary

[Super Falcon]

SU 35 is need of hour with complete air superiority jet if JH 7 joins will pack a massive punch to Indian sea assets and further more capable of giving air support to army from iaf bombing

 

[RISING SUN]

Then what options PAF has instead of SU-35........If you really think SU-35 is not coming to Pakistan......What PAF will do to counter rafales....

The way you & most if the new joined person are wishing for countering our defense options, it's not really healthy for a country like yours. If you start countering plane by plane, PAF will never be in a condition to do that. Best option is what you have currently you just add on its strength instead of increasing type of planes. And please avoid duel engine jets as they increase the cost of operations significantly.

 

[Sankpal]

SU 35 is need of hour with complete air superiority jet if JH 7 joins will pack a massive punch to Indian sea assets and further more capable of giving air support to army from iaf bombing

Agreed

but little difficult to get but J10 J15 and J31 is better options and also easy to get

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

With massive Aesa Radar huge payload excellent ECM capabilities able to carry 8 BVRs can carry 4 anti ship missiles, just imagine 15 or 20 of these fighters going on a mission, what the end result would be.
SU 35s or 52s can cover these fighter if necessary.

we cant just now live in defensive mode. world is changing. might is right.

Below are all your answers...
The thing missing in this is Indian Air Defense SAM's would rip open the JH-7B.

In A to A combat even suggesting JH7B an option is pathetic as it is a bomb truck and even with lots of missiles and powerful radar it shall be good only for Naval attack role only, they may require escorts from other fighter jets. The agility and stealth aspects are nearly zero. If we have to choose JH7B then it is far better to re manufacture Mirage Vs. with some latest gadgets.

SU35 is good but a heavy jet and suitable for naval roles or on limited scale for deep strike missions. In order to counter Rafael we have only following options.

(1)F16V or F16 block 60 ( both are unlikely available for Pak due to Indian Lobbies/ hostile attitude of US legislatures)
2) JF17 block-III upgraded with AESA,IRST and capable EW suit alongwith next gen BVR and WVR AAms. (may be available from 2018 roughly along with delivery of Rafaels to India).
3) J10 c-d ( may be available but engine/tech problems are there needed to be addressed)
4 Mig 35 ( PAF not seems to be interested)

The only feasible option that im pretty sure PAF is following is waiting for J-31 to mature while continuously upgrading the JF-17 and in the meantime getting some surplus F-16s and upgrading,
Thats cost effective, gets the job done and also supports the local Industry as JF-17 is our product.

No need to induct any new Platform,
retire the Legacy fighters and Upgrade JF-17s and F-16s.

@waz this thread has gone to long pls lock it...

 

[ravi gupta]

In limited border skirmishes or Kargil like situation the Airforce role is inevitable.

In Kargil our Mirages did fly and strike.

 

[dadeechi]

Once you have more than you need you tend to use them and you are acquiring them for more than peaceful puposes.

Indian need of Pakistan's support in 15 years time would be far greater than it is today. That's a fact and that alone acts a natural deterrent and an incentive not to get into a war.

Secondly, Pakistan has already neutralized all and any superiority of Indian military threat the day it made it's entry into the nuclear club.

Finally, there is no need to hit the panic button as there is still huge list of options - J-31s, SU-35s, F-15s, F-35s, MIG-35s etc.

 

[Moon]

Except 1965 PAF was Never a Superior Force in Any of War against India PAF Sorties are Mostly Based on Defense Strategy they are Never claimed Air Superiority over Indian air space at Any war Even in 65 the Indian Air Force's attrition rate (1.5%) was lower than the Pakistani attrition rate (1.82%)

In 1971 IAF Maintained its Air Superiority over East Pakistan Within Few Days of War
Even in Western Side the PAF Strategy Was Defensive after Failure of Operation Chengiz Khan Perfect Example is Battle of Longewala where PAF Failed to Provide Air Support to its Ground Forces Which Resulted in Major Equipment Loss to PA and Ultimately Lead to there Humiliating Defeat

That Point is Completely Absurd And Most Common Layman argument By that Logic PLAAF is Completely Amateur Airforce When It Comes to what you call Battle Hardened.

In Modern Aerial warfare Pilots of Any Air-forces are Professionals And Do regular training and Flying Sorties Each year with over 300-400 Flying hours That Include Regular Taking Part in International Exercises.For Example If you are following News on PDF Lately IAF Fighters Contingent is in Alaska For Red Flag Exercises

The Superiority of the Pilot is Purely Depends Upon Superior Training that Depends Upon Monetary Budget of the Air-force Its Completely Rational Fact

Last one is pure BS, if money was such a big factor for a superior pilot. Maybe Israel a country which spends zilch compared to Arab states wouldn't have thrashed them in war. Plus a country which has bagged no Air to Air kills against an armed dedicated aerial opponent in the last 35 years ought not to pull off such claims out of thin air.
Have a good evening .

 

[Erroroverload]

Below are all your answers...
The thing missing in this is Indian Air Defense SAM's would rip open the JH-7B

So according to your logic,
A bomber is not needed or has no importance in a war. it will be useless.

But in a war situation there are other aircraft's which are complementing it, first you destroy your enemy's radars and SAM's installations and when the course is clear bombing mission is sent to unleash hell on enemy, not the other way around you think. A dedicated bomber is an asset of an air force. And JH7B can be used as a dual platform, we can use it as a bomber and a navy fighter as well.

 

[SrNair]

so in simple words now we have nothing to put up against Rafale.

No .Of Course not .
You can buy anything you want from PRC .PRC aero tech is good ,may be its capability to take on a western design is limited but still they are good .Pakistan cant initiate an offensive doctrine against due to obvious reason .So acquring most modern AAD from Turkey and PRC would also be helpful

In here JH7b is simply not good to fight against Rafale in one -one case .If you have enough money to form a quantity based JH 7 squadron ,it would be helpful .
Su 35 excellent choice .But obstacles are also there .Its cost ,Indian influence in Russian arms circle .
Indian defence systems are totally dominated by Russia and Russia needs our industry .

 

[Chanakyaa]

Hi,

No--it is not discouraging my nation---but to get the head out the a----ole that it is stuck in.

Mastaan Sahab,

I guess Thats a common problem in the Entire SA. Pakistan is not an exception.
Sharifs and Gandhis exist on both sides of the border since 1947 !

Had we been realistic, The "Third World" terms would have been a history. Examples like China , South Korea , japan and Germany are not too far fectched.

On Topic,

I Feel There are Two Realistic Possibilites ( Forget F35 / Su 35 )

#1. PAF is a defensive Force, The best bet would be Gripen NG. You need something better than Block 52s This is your best bet.

#2. A more realistic Approach will be to Upgrade your JF17s with Mordern Avionics. Why not get the Avinocs from J10s if not the airframe itself ?

#3. Post 2025 Get the J series of the 5th Gen Fighters.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

So according to your logic,
A bomber is not needed or has no importance in a war. it will be useless.

But in a war situation there are other aircraft's which are complementing it, first you destroy your enemy's radars and SAM's installations and when the course is clear bombing mission is sent to unleash hell on enemy, not the other way around you think. A dedicated bomber is an asset of an air force. And JH7B can be used as a dual platform, we can use it as a bomber and a navy fighter as well.

Bro,
We are not living in the 1930's where bombers were required because of their range and interceptors would accompany them to save them from enemy aircraft.

Today you have multi role aircraft which perform the same role which two or more type of aircraft did.

JH7B is some thing of the previous year today they are not needed. The Gulf wars have shown that helicopters were enough to destroy enemy radars and the rest was done by the aircraft. Where as Afghan war has shown that even heavy bombs can not destroy an highly motivated fighting unit. Remember the 'Daisy Cutter' being dropped by the B52's.

PAF was interested in Tornado over the JH7's, however now the things have changed PAF can Get the SU-34 or EFT.

 

[Chanakyaa]

So according to your logic,
A bomber is not needed or has no importance in a war. it will be useless.

But in a war situation there are other aircraft's which are complementing it, first you destroy your enemy's radars and SAM's installations and when the course is clear bombing mission is sent to unleash hell on enemy, not the other way around you think. A dedicated bomber is an asset of an air force. And JH7B can be used as a dual platform, we can use it as a bomber and a navy fighter as well.

The Topic is about How to Counter Rafale / Super Skukoi / MKI rather War.
If you discuss War you need far far more itesm to win a War, SAMs, BMs , SATs etc etc to start.

 

[Zain Malik]

The way you & most if the new joined person are wishing for countering our defense options, it's not really healthy for a country like yours. If you start countering plane by plane, PAF will never be in a condition to do that. Best option is what you have currently you just add on its strength instead of increasing type of planes. And please avoid duel engine jets as they increase the cost of operations significantly.

Cost dont matter for prosperity and defence if some gallons of fuel protect our country to counter enemie then a dual engine jet and cost dont matter.....

 

[SrNair]

French are good in business. Our problem is that we dont seize the moment. If Pakistan throws in some money, we will get Rafale. If indians get rafale then we should talk about the capabilities of rafale vs J 31. How long J 31 will take to be available. we can pump some money into J31 R&D for its early serial production. I hope that in time J 31 will if not outclass will definitely attain a certain degree of parity with rafales.

Add to it further, we need to do something about s400 threat.

Of Course .Money .
How much you can throw to snatch those Rafale deal from India?

With Pakistan they have already done so. Advanced nuclear weapons with advanced missile technology. Once the J-20 is in full service with PLAAF it's only a matter of time before Pakistan receives them. Especially in light of the fact that the Chinese want to protect their vital assets in Gwadar and throughout the CPEC route.

Recently a Chinese official clarified their official stance .J 20 will remain as the 'F 22' of PLAAF .
Always will be .
That is why they have another program called J 31 .

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Of Course .Money .
How much you can throw to snatch those Rafale deal from India?



Recently a Chinese official clarified their official stance .J 20 will remain as the 'F 22' of PLAAF .
Always will be .
That is why they have another program called J 31 .

Exactly, the PLAAF "Official" stance. What happens behind the scenes is completely different. In the 80s and 90s, PRC's "Official" stance was that Pakistan should not pursue the nuclear weapons route and both Pakistan and india should resolve their outstanding issues peacefully. Behind the scenes the Chinese were supplying Pakistan with all the equipment and know how we would ever need to make highly advanced and lethal nuclear weapons and missiles for many decades to come. They still do.

Only thing is that Pakistan needs to somehow attain the ability by whatever means necessary to one day start producing and manufacturing high tech and world class weaponary (fighter jets, tanks, submarines, warships etc) so that we can stop asking the rest of the world for them. NEED to be self sufficient in this regard. Until Pakistan or any other nation has this ability, they will always potentially be vulnerable to foreign demands and extermination. Iraq 2003-2014 is a good example of this. May the innocents RIP.