No J-10B for PAF | A.C Khalid, calls for a focus on 5th generation platform instead.

[boke]

乐意看到巴基斯坦对“J-17”雷电进行不断的升级改造，把雷电战机打造成适合巴基斯坦的4++战机。最能满足自身需要的战机才是最好的战机，而不是老瞄着别的国家制造出来的先进战机。这点巴基斯坦不需要攀比，相对与印度阿富汗这些邻国来说，能够压制至少是能相抗衡就可以了，巴基斯坦的飞行员本领听说很不错，如果有性能更好的适合本国国情的战机就能足以维护好本国国家利益了！

 

[wiseone2]

Did you just tell me that the J-10 is the most "advanced" jet the Chinese have.....the J-11, the J-15, J-16, J-20,J-31 are all names of single propeller planes from WW1 then, I guess??!

So the rest are SU-30 and SU-27 copies....so those aren't capable enough??? So what about your SU-30? How's that super advanced with a few nicer avionics and the ones the Chinese have are crap??? I am super confused....propaganda is one thing but don't stupidfy (my word), an entire discussion......

the su-27, su-30 are russian aircraft. they are capable aircraft. Can they export it to Pakistan ? Would they would get in trouble with Russia ? May be the engines are Russian. Maybe Russia would not allow it.

J-10 is the most advanced indigenous fighter. they need to protect aviation secrets due to potential conflict with Taiwan, S Korea, Japan and USA. they cannot give all their secrets to Pakistan

 

[Asian.Century]

Pakistan Air Force To Skip J-10B and Go For Chinese Stealth Fighter J-31?

According to reports Pakistan Air force will skip J-10 and wait for the 5th generation Chinese stealth Fighter the Shenyang J-31.
Not much is known about the capabilities of the plane.The plane can carry weapons in internal bays like F-35,and will be ready in the next 2-3 years.

Pakistan Air Force plans to keep manufacturing and improving their 4th generation Fighter jet JF-17 Thunder till the induction of Chinese stealth fighter.

http://www.asian-defence.net/

 

[newindiandefence]

J 31 would be a gambling decision for paf don't throw yr full money on it...and very costly also.. I think u should go for Mig 35 . Egypt signed deal 50 jets for $2 billion . Cost effective 4.5+ gen fighter... affordable for Pakistan..... 100 Mig 35 best for paf if Russia allows...

Pakistan Air Force To Skip J-10B and Go For Chinese Stealth Fighter J-31?

According to reports Pakistan Air force will skip J-10 and wait for the 5th generation Chinese stealth Fighter the Shenyang J-31.
Not much is known about the capabilities of the plane.The plane can carry weapons in internal bays like F-35,and will be ready in the next 2-3 years.

Pakistan Air Force plans to keep manufacturing and improving their 4th generation Fighter jet JF-17 Thunder till the induction of Chinese stealth fighter.

http://www.asian-defence.net/

Thunder can't fight future wars ...

 

[Genghis khan1]

Advantage of stealth is quite evident and PAF maga minds have realized this fact. Every interview from PAF Top brass suggest that PAF is looking towards 5th Generation fighter rather than 4++. ACM even hinted PAF analysing future technologies of the 6th generation fighters. There are good chances that PAF might team up with Turkey for a 5 Gen+ fighter, while acquiring some 5th Generation from China or US (which ACM already hinted).

PAF will try to bring up Jf-17s and F-16s to 4++ level while saving money for 5th Generation fighter.

.

 

[punit]

Advantage of stealth is quite evident and PAF maga minds have realized this fact. Every interview from PAF Top brass suggest that PAF is looking towards 5th Generation fighter rather than 4++. ACM even hinted PAF analysing future technologies of the 6th generation fighters. There are good chances that PAF might team up with Turkey for a 5 Gen+ fighter, while acquiring some 5th Generation from China or US (which ACM already hinted).

PAF will try to bring up Jf-17s and F-16s to 4++ level while saving money for 5th Generation fighter.

.

how many Stealth Planes can PAF afford?

 

[weqi]

Chinese J-31 Stealth fighter.

India isn't getting anything till 2020-2022...

We have 6 to 8 years...

By that time, we'll have hundreds of JF-17s block II, III, etc...F-16s...and then acquisition of J-31 stealth bomber/fighter will completely neutralize any indian acquisition.

The gap between PAF and IAF was greatest of history in 2001-02 stand-off.....and IAF couldn't launch even a surgical strike inside Pakistan territory back then.

After that, Gap has only been decreasing and this trend would continue in coming future, Inshallah

In 2008, premiere IAF fighter, a fully armed Su-30MKI, entered Pakistani Air Space during high tensions....only to be locked-on by our F-16s and later, our 7 fighter jets "escorted" India's most lethal plane back to the border

After that, IAF never even dared to enter Pak's airspace during that tense time...let alone going forward with a surgical strike...let alone thinking about an open air-conflict with PAF....

In ALL previous engagements, where IAF and PAF engaged each other in shooting war, PAF was able to shoot down way more IAF aircrafts than vice versa.

See this thread started by a well-informed senior Indian member itself...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history-strategy/38075-paf-kills-versis-iaf-kills.html

but un-fortunately lockheed martin planning to shift production line to ind we may face availability and spare parts difficulty how PAF cannot answere only diplomatic conditions can make way for PAF

how many Stealth Planes can PAF afford?

PAF is not doing business of affordability , well why Rafale even after SU-30 MKI ,PAF has habit of puzzling IAF

 

[Genghis khan1]

how many Stealth Planes can PAF afford?

As many it takes PAF to keep IAF at bay. It doesn't matter how many Su-30s or Rafael's IAF add to it's inventory. They stand no chance in BVR engagements. Russian are really struggling with their 5th generation fighter. Western analysts even doubt on that Russian design is good enough for a stealth fighter to began with. IAF is Shit out of luck.

but un-fortunately lockheed martin planning to shift production line to ind we may face availability and spare parts difficulty how PAF cannot answere only diplomatic conditions can make way for PAF

That's for F-16s, if India is willing to place a big order. Which Lockheed martin has already started closing down in Texas, US. Most of F-16s employees have already being transitioned into F-35 assembly line.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Can paf match this with Chinese jets
Future acquisition of India
Hindustan

Suprsukhoi.320(2020)
Rafael......... 36(2020)
Tejas1a...... 120 (2020)
Mig35mki....124 (2020)
Pakfa.......... 100 (2020)
F-35 Israel. 40 (2025)
Fgfa............ 147 (2025)
Amca......... 250 (2030)

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/no-j-10b...platform-instead.313405/page-46#ixzz4JC4YnrJf

You forgot to add unicorns to this list.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Brother this will happen..

October 2016 Rafale deal .....done

December 2016 ..super sukhoi

First quarter 2017 Fgfa / Pakfa

2017 middle Mig 35 for quantity

2018 ....f 35 for navy

yeah add F-22 too and J-20 also

Thunder can't fight future wars ...

Same to your crapy TEJAS

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

You forgot to add unicorns to this list.

Unicorns were not added by him , because they are getting SUPER unicorn

On a different note , I am in favor of getting J10B , as a Third Option in fleet just because it is a more modern platform , vs Mirage which we operate (While in superior maintained shape)

Having 36-40 J10B , give us a comfort level of knowing these will continue to evolve with new items and there is ample supplies available. Also it would give us a chance to train some engineer force to look after these machines.

As it is China's Airforce's plane , it will continue to get better radar, a better avionics package and we had a potential to get upgrades

Overlooking this platform was not a smart decision, specially since we do not have any Stealth plane on offer for foreseeable future

Had we not chased the bone for F16 , we now would have been flying 36-40 Brand new J10B in our fleet (Active duty) Delivery was meant for 2014 , they would have been in service for 2 years

Pros
----------------------------------------------------------
Used by Chinese Airforce
Future upgrade Guaranteed (Radar/Engine)
The plane wings make it agile platform
Sufficient hard points
Ample parts and service support
Fast arrival / Purchase option


Cons
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not stealth however no one is offering us stealth on platter



Every one is still buying, not every one wants vertical flight option

• Typhoon (None stealth)
  
• Rafale (None stealth)
• Gripen (None stealth)
• F-15 (None stealth)

So to say these platforms are obsolete is not good as these platforms all are quite useful for next 15-18 years

If our bench mark is to make sure all planes in force at Year 2005 or newer , then we did well with replacement and Modernization

• The planes from 1970 have to go
• The planes from 1980 have to also be moved over (if they have not gone thru MLU)

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

Can paf match this with Chinese jets
Future acquisition of India
Hindustan

Suprsukhoi.320(2020)
Rafael......... 36(2020)
Tejas1a...... 120 (2020)
Mig35mki....124 (2020)
Pakfa.......... 100 (2020)
F-35 Israel. 40 (2025)
Fgfa............ 147 (2025)
Amca......... 250 (2030)

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/no-j-10b...platform-instead.313405/page-46#ixzz4JC4YnrJf

what are you smokin , man ?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pakistan JF 17 Thunder Fleet

• Block 1 (50 Units) (5 Year old )
  
• Block 2 (??) (1 Year old )
• Block 3 (0 Years old)

• Over all Grade (A+)

Pakistan F16 Fleet

• F16 C/D (45 Planes) , MLU assuming delivery of 2009 , (6 Years old)
• F16 C/D (18 Planes) , New assuming delivery of 2009 , (6 Years old)
  
• F16 A/B Jordanian Original Purchase 1983 , upgraded in 2001 (Over 16 Years)

• Overall Grade ( A- )

Dassault Mirage III / Dassault Mirage 5

• Considering the Upgrade in 90's , age is around (26 Years) for Upgraded units
  
• Un upgraded units (30 Years plus)
• Plus point we have a solid Over haul facility for it

• Overall Grade ( C-) (Due to Overhaul capabilities & Engineering would consider it C+)

Chengdu F-7

• Started induction in 1988 , so almost 28 Years
  
• No problem with parts and maintenance
  
• Technology package upgrade would help this plane

• Overall Grade ( C-) (Due to Overhaul capabilities & Engineering would consider it C+)

So really we are looking at 150-170 planes in C+ Category , which makes it important to bring in a new platform like J10B (36-40 Units) to lift the load off the Mirage / F7 fleets


If the situation was we had offer of Stealth Jet , at same time as when we had ordered J10B , I would have agreed with decision to not get J10B , but we don't have any plane on offer. We ordered J10B around 2007-2008, and delivery was expected by 2014. So becasue of that 1 decision we lost around 7 years

Closest we got of a decision to get new planes was when we ordered 8 F16 , planes and then we backed out of that due to high financial issues

• We had 0% chance of getting stealth plane in 2005
  
• We had 0% chance of getting stealth plane in 2010
• We had 0% chance of getting stealth plane in 2016

What we did had chance was 36-40 Brand new state of Art J10B (Age 0), however the chance was not taken at right time. When will those fantastic stealth planes arrive ?

The person who took the decision to overlook should really let us know , what was the "Alternative purchase" ? Becasue I really don't see any stealth plane between 2005-2016

• We did get some 1983 Block A/B - F16 (14 units)
  
• We had a offer rejected for new F16 C/D for 8 units
  
• We bought few ATR turbo prop recon planes
• Tiny Scan eagle recon UAV (Unarmed)
  
• Yes we made a UAV fire missile certainly nice achivement

Had we gone the route of 40 J10B , delivery in 2014

• In Year 2016-2017 , we would have ordered 20-36 more units for delivery in 2020 ,
  And we would have been 50%-70% along the path of retiring Mirage

• Comparison , 2007 Saudia ordered 72 Euro Fighter Typhoons, 2016 , they got 72 planes brand new in air-force, approximately same time when we had ordered 40 J10B, they saw a chance and they took chance to make their airforce better. We had a cake given to us and we were day dreaming about stealth.

• US threw us a Bone (18 F16 Block C/D) and kept us busy for 11-12 years not to upgrade our Airforce and they moved to then do a defence deal with India for air base a slap in our face, mean while our Air cheif were seeing stealth plane in their heads

• During this 11-12 year gap , India performed upgrades on their Mirage2000
• During this 11-12 year gap , India performed upgrades on their Jaguare platform
• During this 11-12 year gap , India perform mig 29 upgrade
• During this 11 -12 year gap india finished their Rafale purchase

• Don't see any "Stealth plane in horizon"

 

[newindiandefence]

yeah add F-22 too and J-20 also


Same to your crapy TEJAS

U are right , but tejas is no our main. Fighter will do supporting role ..but jf17 now yr main jet in near future... this will make a use deference.

yeah add F-22 too and J-20 also

Don't laugh ,,u should prepare yr self for best..

Possible. F22 export version....offered by lockheed Martin if with f16 deal future option...if Japan cellect it aa next fighter jet 40 billion project, and us assembly approve it ,,, then India go for it with f 16 deAl ...in place of f35.
Same to your crapy TEJAS

 

[zebra7]

J 31 would be a gambling decision for paf don't throw yr full money on it...and very costly also.. I think u should go for Mig 35 . Egypt signed deal 50 jets for $2 billion . Cost effective 4.5+ gen fighter... affordable for Pakistan..... 100 Mig 35 best for paf if Russia allows...



Thunder can't fight future wars ...

Why did you get the negative rating for this post. I agree MIG-35 if allowed is the best option for PAF.