No J-10B for PAF | A.C Khalid, calls for a focus on 5th generation platform instead.

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

So what lol Indians are signing 36 Rafales for 12 billion lol.

Well french squeezed Indians, and Indians got even by leaking French sub deal I think
Would not be surprised if secrets for following tech become available

• Phalcon
• P8
• Rafale

Who knows we might get design details to make our own Rafale some day just like the Scorpene deal

But 12 Billion for just 36 planes was a bit high

As for the JF17

Block 1 : (50 Units) 2010-2013
Block 2: (50 Units) 2014-2016/2017 , Externals Sales: 20-25 Units (Between 2016-2020)
Block 3 : (20-25 Units) 2018-2020


A fleet of 150 planes would be decent force for Pakistan's defensive needs.

A nice order of J10B would make things Solid , I don't consider Stealth the most important thing
we need to fix the CORE first

We need a supplier that is dependable, a more efficient process one that does not suffers from constipation .

 

[hussain0216]

Are u talking about 65 -71 war with proud...

Then why u lose Bangladesh??
And what u gain?

Ur Panjab military always teach u wrong history....

I have heard from my pak friends than they won both wars ...


Then who was they 100000 soldiers ,who surrender in front of Indian military?
After simla samjhota .....they got released...
...
Western media did not stoped u to lie...Because you had western weapons....

Bangladesh was 1000 miles away from Pakistan, on the other side of india, where you got yourselves involved in a civil war

Pakistan is 7 times smaller than India, defeat for us would have meant no more Pakistan

Yet here we are, i n 1948 taking a vital chunk of Kashmir from india blocking you from central asia, Russia and Afghanistan/iran

In 65 pushing you to defeat in kashmir for india to panic snd attack our major city, only to be humiliated, defeated and thrown out

In 71 you involved yourself in a civil war where we couldn't even resupply our forces 1000 miles away from us



What have you achieved against a 7 times smaller state in population, and 3 and half smaller in size?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well as you know this thread is about discussing Pakistan's purchasing decisions about J10B or Stealth platform. It does not make sense why your discussion is discussing Indian future upgrade

India has a far larger territory to cover, and also it is operating lot of Dinosaur platforms
It is a bit not fair to start a comparison between Pakistan's upgrade program vs that of India as the two programs have different threads in different section of the defence forum

In end you will end up banning your own self by derailing conversation

I think the J10B, and Stealth plane has not much to do with Indian Air force's plans for upgrade

Furthermore , it seems you are quite new , as you are not familiar with Chinese Airforce & Defence projects. I do suggest you review the products China is making prior to criticize their products.

 

[hussain0216]

150 jf 17s with 50 block 3s should be ready by 2020

Your procurement is such a joke that im.not sure you will get 5th gen even by 2040

Ok lets except it 200 in 2020.
And India not getting 5 gen till 2040
..
But what about super sukhoi with Fgfa tech upgrade,

Rafale approved by defence ministery .

Tejas Mark 1a with Israeli improved elm2052 or uttam which will be better aser radar ,carbon fibers body with gauranted low rcs .python 5 , durby 2

Mig 29k with esar radar

Jf3 or j 10 can match them ?????

Chinese products.....



Don't make excuses.....

U also using only religious sentiments
For Kashmir .....

For your excuses what will u say about Arab Israeli 3day war one small nation vs 25 nation????[/QUOTE]

Out of all the crap you said only 150 Jf 17s with a great block 3 by 2020 is likely

 

[newindiandefence]

Agree

And I don't want to hurt anybody...
If anyone ,,,, then I m sorry ...

I think we should live peacefully and helpful for each other.....

 

[hussain0216]

Agree

And I don't want to hurt anybody...
If anyone ,,,, then I m sorry ...

I think we should live peacefully and helpful for each other.....

No we shouldn't were enemies, end your occupation of Kashmir and let South Asia move on

 

[Furqan Sarwar]

PAF should induct 50 more awacs and become greatest airforce the world has ever seen

Do you have 50 AWACS? if not then its a waste of time giving replies like this.

 

[The Eagle]

Why did you get the negative rating for this post. I agree MIG-35 if allowed is the best option for PAF.

Thanks for advices and PAF knows what is available as best, economical and with enough juice in long terms but one wonders, why our neighboring friends are pressing hard for Mig-35 mostly in every single thread about PAF future plans and options.

 

[MastanKhan]

A nice order of J10B would make things Solid , I don't consider Stealth the most important thing
we need to fix the CORE first

Hi,

A perfect word chosen to describe the scenario---. If the CORE is not fixed---it would just be a white wash---.

 

[Asian.Century]

Great Analysis @AZADPAKISTAN2009

Pakistan does need a EF, Gripen or Su35 type of jet but not in favour of another Chinese J10B . And a 5th Gen plane must be PAFs full committment and future funds...J31 or TFX it has to purchase it.

" Pakistan JF 17 Thunder Fleet

• Block 1 (50 Units) (5 Year old )
  
• Block 2 (??) (1 Year old )
• Block 3 (0 Years old)

• Over all Grade (A+)

Pakistan F16 Fleet

• F16 C/D (45 Planes) , MLU assuming delivery of 2009 , (6 Years old)
• F16 C/D (18 Planes) , New assuming delivery of 2009 , (6 Years old)
  
• F16 A/B Jordanian Original Purchase 1983 , upgraded in 2001 (Over 16 Years)

• Overall Grade ( A- )

Dassault Mirage III / Dassault Mirage 5

• Considering the Upgrade in 90's , age is around (26 Years) for Upgraded units
  
• Un upgraded units (30 Years plus)
• Plus point we have a solid Over haul facility for it

• Overall Grade ( C-) (Due to Overhaul capabilities & Engineering would consider it C+)

Chengdu F-7

• Started induction in 1988 , so almost 28 Years
  
• No problem with parts and maintenance
  
• Technology package upgrade would help this plane

• Overall Grade ( C-) (Due to Overhaul capabilities & Engineering would consider it C+)

So really we are looking at 150-170 planes in C+ Category , which makes it important to bring in a new platform like J10B (36-40 Units) to lift the load off the Mirage / F7 fleets


If the situation was we had offer of Stealth Jet , at same time as when we had ordered J10B , I would have agreed with decision to not get J10B , but we don't have any plane on offer. We ordered J10B around 2007-2008, and delivery was expected by 2014. So becasue of that 1 decision we lost around 7 years

Closest we got of a decision to get new planes was when we ordered 8 F16 , planes and then we backed out of that due to high financial issues

• We had 0% chance of getting stealth plane in 2005
  
• We had 0% chance of getting stealth plane in 2010
• We had 0% chance of getting stealth plane in 2016

What we did had chance was 36-40 Brand new state of Art J10B (Age 0), however the chance was not taken at right time. When will those fantastic stealth planes arrive ?

The person who took the decision to overlook should really let us know , what was the "Alternative purchase" ? Becasue I really don't see any stealth plane between 2005-2016

• We did get some 1983 Block A/B - F16 (14 units)
  
• We had a offer rejected for new F16 C/D for 8 units
  
• We bought few ATR turbo prop recon planes
• Tiny Scan eagle recon UAV (Unarmed)
  
• Yes we made a UAV fire missile certainly nice achivement

Had we gone the route of 40 J10B , delivery in 2014

• In Year 2016-2017 , we would have ordered 20-36 more units for delivery in 2020 ,
  And we would have been 50%-70% along the path of retiring Mirage

• Comparison , 2007 Saudia ordered 72 Euro Fighter Typhoons, 2016 , they got 72 planes brand new in air-force, approximately same time when we had ordered 40 J10B, they saw a chance and they took chance to make their airforce better. We had a cake given to us and we were day dreaming about stealth.

• US threw us a Bone (18 F16 Block C/D) and kept us busy for 11-12 years not to upgrade our Airforce and they moved to then do a defence deal with India for air base a slap in our face, mean while our Air cheif were seeing stealth plane in their heads

• During this 11-12 year gap , India performed upgrades on their Mirage2000
• During this 11-12 year gap , India performed upgrades on their Jaguare platform
• During this 11-12 year gap , India perform mig 29 upgrade
• During this 11 -12 year gap india finished their Rafale purchase

• Don't see any "Stealth plane in horizon"

"

 

[zebra7]

Thanks for advices and PAF knows what is available as best, economical and with enough juice in long terms but one wonders, why our neighboring friends are pressing hard for Mig-35 mostly in every single thread about PAF future plans and options.

Well that advise was on the basis of the economics. This is what I feel, that PAF needs Dedicated Air Superiority Fighter Jet e.g F-15E, EF-2000 or Su-35 to counter IAF. Since all the options are difficult or seems to be difficult, and also costly which will force the PAF to procure only in limited numbers. If you think PAF have no budget issues, then I might be wrong, and the choice of MIG-35 was only the suggetion, and its the PAF and the GOP to decide, which way they want to go. Nothing personal sir, if you don't like it just ignore it. And BTW, the motive of that post was to know, why he was given negative rating, because I feels, there was nothing wrong in it.

 

[The Eagle]

the motive of that post was to know, why he was given negative rating, because I feels, there was nothing wrong in it.

The one who has the authority to give rating, is aware of powers given by management and if the one at receiver end feels unfair, can contact GHQ but other should not make it something to debate, totally at different topic/thread.

Economical, we are still promised with our current stance towards more JFTs, the current fleet and upcoming 5th Gen (FC-31 or TFX) but when PAF decides to have a platform like EFT or SUs, then I am sure the possibilities are worked out based upon the feasibility reports and different practices. Everything is not the money every time, there are strategies and tactics defined while keep in view the future development and expenses thereof. Along with budget, it is also the doctrine in possible manners and if needed and having no other choice, PAF can have it whatever deemed fit and is not like that much empty pocketed what others try to portray. Hope you will understand. Cost is not like a Sky but their are other priorities as well.

Whereby a thread created about PAF, J-10B and 5th Gen A/C, our neighboring friends cannot ignore it how do you expect me not to share what I see.

Nothing personal taken as well.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Just out of curiosity China is demoing the J-31 is the Air chief planning to visit the event ?
Or he presently waiting for a 5th generation plane ?

I am just trying to figure out which one of the news are credible

Is it 5th generation or we getting Stealth plane ?

Reference:
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/china-stealth-fighter-zhuhai-airshow-j31

 

[Signalian]

• US threw us a Bone (18 F16 Block C/D) and kept us busy for 11-12 years not to upgrade our Airforce and they moved to then do a defence deal with India for air base a slap in our face, mean while our Air cheif were seeing stealth plane in their heads

• During this 11-12 year gap , India performed upgrades on their Mirage2000
• During this 11-12 year gap , India performed upgrades on their Jaguare platform
• During this 11-12 year gap , India perform mig 29 upgrade
• During this 11 -12 year gap india finished their Rafale purchase"

JF-17 Program and induction.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Looking for those stealths