No J-10B for PAF | A.C Khalid, calls for a focus on 5th generation platform instead.

[Kloitra]

New ones are enough to sustain for as long as required

Its not the problem of sustaining. From what I know, the net power delivered by twin engines of Mig is more than that of F16, for similar weight class. How much of that power is transferred for ECM is anyone's guess but a logical assumption would be that it is higher for Mig.

 

[Informant]

Its not the problem of sustaining. From what I know, the net power delivered by twin engines of Mig is more than that of F16, for similar weight class. How much of that power is transferred for ECM is anyone's guess but a logical assumption would be that it is higher for Mig.

Of Course that is not debated here, but the workability/efficiency of American systems is on spec and sufficient. Israel uses its own electronic countermeasures on is F-16. The US does not disclose its technology to them so therefore India getting info/inside knowledge is extremely slim.

Then again Blok 52 system are designed from the get go with a single engine in mind. ECCM, ECM, SNIPER and AIM-120 is what counter's India's frontline Air Superiority asset in MKI.

I guess this is off topic so maybe lets continue this in some other thread.

 

[Storm Force]

Without J10B pakistanis will be relying on a small FLEET OF F16 to keep IAF at Bay.

I say small because a max of 76 F16 versis 200 SU30MKI today is a tall order no matter how good the F16 ecm or radar or the BVR missle happens to be.

You jjust cant be in three places at the same time.

Whislt i realise the thunder is arriving for me that is not going to be the cutting edge of your air power.

Any indian commander will REALISE breaK THE F16 fleet and you could win the Air Supremacy battle.

J10B would have been A GREAT ADDITION to your fleet and a real FORCE MULTIPLER without threat of USA sanctions.

Deep down i am certain some PDF posters will be thinking the same.

Despite all the junk the IAF fly TODAY they still field

200 MKI
48 MIG29K Navy
50 Mirage 2000-5 ( being upgraded)

These 300 planes will go toe toe against the formidable F16 OF PAF

 

[nana41]

really??
tell me more about it,i mentioned canards in one of my posts.............one,when i told u on difference between j-10b and jf-17.
so its better u don't spread lies here.

yup i decided to compare it with jf-17 because guess what,,,that was the topic at hand genius.

Oey sardara! Tun ki thaan thaan audey lai phirna pian ean, ajey persoon meray nal sing arrana pia sain...teri sooi taan naheen attak gai yara?.

 

[Informant]

Without J10B pakistanis will be relying on a small FLEET OF F16 to keep IAF at Bay.

I say small because a max of 76 F16 versis 200 SU30MKI today is a tall order no matter how good the F16 ecm or radar or the BVR missle happens to be.

You jjust cant be in three places at the same time.

Whislt i realise the thunder is arriving for me that is not going to be the cutting edge of your air power.

Any indian commander will REALISE breaK THE F16 fleet and you could win the Air Supremacy battle.

J10B would have been A GREAT ADDITION to your fleet and a real FORCE MULTIPLER without threat of USA sanctions.

Deep down i am certain some PDF posters will be thinking the same.

Despite all the junk the IAF fly TODAY they still field

200 MKI
48 MIG29K Navy
50 Mirage 2000-5 ( being upgraded)

These 300 planes will go toe toe against the formidable F16 OF PAF

PAF cannot counter IAF with quantity, it's all about quality. And our F-16's which are going through a process of MLU will be formidable with upgraded avionics, engines and Electronic Warfare modules which are the top of the line.

India cannot possibly field all those planes for us, they have to station a very dominant number of planes at the Chinese border. You guys cannot keep all your forces on us and give an open invite to China. This way we know your strength nearly halves with us. Rest assured there has always been a plan in place for every scenario/situation that can happen to us.

Nobody denies the planes you got in the arsenal are top dog, but you just cannot field them all for us, China keeps you busy.

 

[patriotpakistan]

No point wasting money on a plane similar to what the PAF already has. PAF should be looking forward to get the next generation of equipment. Stealth is the future of military aviation and PAF needs to catch up with the rest of the major airforces. Remember when Quaid said: "The PAF must be second to none". This means developing systems capable of detecting stealth planes as well as developing the latest stealth aircraft. I personally favour the J-31 for PAF. It looks like a well designed airframe compared to the ugly and bulky looking J-20. If only the J-31 had exhaust shields like the F-22 for a much lower RCS.

 

[trident2010]

Bad decision in my opinion. 50-60 J10B's would give PAF some breathing time until something better arrives. No 5th gen plane in atleast 10 years for PAF and J10B's would be excellent stop gap.

 

[monitor]

Bad decision in my opinion. 50-60 J10B's would give PAF some breathing time until something better arrives. No 5th gen plane in atleast 10 years for PAF and J10B's would be excellent stop gap.

Pakistan is focusing on future rather then current threat scenario in fifth generation environment it may be wast of money to pour money to a 4.5+ platform which will give at best 20/30 % extra benefit which they may fill by indicting tested and trusted F-16 both old and new . the money need to procure J-10 expendin would give JF-17 the necessary upgrade to counter IAF threat in their home ground for next 10 year after that from 2020 if Pakistan can induct enough number of J-31, jf-17 block II/III along with 100+ F-16 PAF would be challenging force reckon with .

 

[NKVD]

Pakistan is focusing on future rather then current threat scenario in fifth generation environment it may be wast of money to pour money to a 4.5+ platform which will give at best 20/30 % extra benefit which they may fill by indicting tested and trusted F-16 both old and new . the money need to procure J-10 expendin would give JF-17 the necessary upgrade to counter IAF threat in their home ground for next 10 year after that from 2020 if Pakistan can induct enough number of J-31, jf-17 block II/III along with 100+ F-16 PAF would be challenging force reckon with .

Your idea is good mate but still its very arguable to just depending on just F-16 for multiple roles which are in limited numbers unless PAF is relying on defensive policy Rather than Offensive strike policy.F-16 alone have to face 3 different fighters in future in the same Role which are Mki,mk2, rafale's although it will be difficult with such low number to hold so my opinion there is a requirement of J-10b in same role of F-16.

Ps:take out 5th Gen out of it

 

[aliyusuf]

J-10B or J-10C whichever was supposed to be the candidate for the FC-20, is not ready with Chinese engine ... as per PAF's liking. It seems that there are some issue about supplying these planes with the Al-31 engine to Pakistan, the lines may have been drawn on the RD93 case.

Also it seems PAF is currently cash strapped and is totally involved with the induction and production of the JFT.
It is my opinion that the PAF is in a triage mode and doing its best to handle the current situation it finds itself in.
Acquiring the ex-RJAF F-16 ADFs is also an excellent example of how the PAF is resourcefully handling the situation.

Otherwise even 36 FC-20s, for which the original MOU was signed in 2005, would have been quite adequate as a stop gap.
I personally would have liked to have seen these planes in PAF colors. But the circumstances being what they are and some well informed members stating that JFT-Block-III is going to be something that will be similar or better(??) ... time will tell.

 

[hussain0216]

You dont just buy an aircraft, you buy a whole set up that supports the aircraft

How many J10's would we have bought?
We would require extensive pilot training taking many years
A whole scale training of many personel to deal with the J10B
Infrastructure to support the J10B

It takes many years for air forces and its pilots to master a plane, come up with an effective training and flying doctrine

The above is just a small sample of the issues involved when inducting a new plane, now why would we do all that just to induct another 4+ gen plane that would not give us an advantage over the F16 (except maybe it would be a chinese plane not subject to sanction)


With the F16 we have everything already in place, from very experienced pilots to pit crews and infrastructure. We need to expand our F16 fleet to in an ideal world around 130 planes, Our relationship with the americans is improving and their will be thousands of second hand F16's on the market going very cheap. We can buy cheap and MLU if we need to, we have top line pilots with years of experience and some top line weaponery.

Then concentrate on improving the JF17 Block 3 into a worthy fighter, JF17 is a new fighter and look how many issues we are having inducting it, it takes time to train the pilots and mechanics and come up with a doctrine so the JF-17 wont be truly ready until maybe another 3 years. Once it is up and running with aesa, irst then it is good to go

Our next 5-10 years should be spent on ensuring the JF17 is as lethal as it can be and to inducting 150-250 planes, with the option of more this will be our work horse figher for many decades. Adding another 50 F16's to our inventory is vital

We will then have the time to plan and save money to induct a 5th gen fighter which will be bought in batches and gradually built up

 

[hussain0216]

Just one more thing in addition

How much does a J10B cost, we need at least 50 of them, then add on the cost of training, infrastructure and the years it would take to induct the plane.

That plus the induction of the JF17 would mean we could kiss a 5th gen plane good buy

We just paid (allegedly) 5 million per Jordanian F16, even with upgrades they are a bargin, if we can get more from the thousands of F16's out there at a cheap cost we already have everything in place to add them to our fleet and get going


However good the J10B is, its not logical for us to go for it unless circumstances change

 

[acetophenol]

Ramp up your economy,everything else will fall in place.

 

[Munir]

If the past is anything to go by, Pakistan generally gets most of the Chinese rejects(There may well be a few notable exceptions). Since China is probably going to field J-10B's as a frontline fighter, by the earlier mentioned 'rule' Pakistan shall obviously never get it. Same for J-20 and J-31.

I do not think you have the idea how pathetic your post is.

 

[Informant]

If the past is anything to go by, Pakistan generally gets most of the Chinese rejects(There may well be a few notable exceptions). Since China is probably going to field J-10B's as a frontline fighter, by the earlier mentioned 'rule' Pakistan shall obviously never get it. Same for J-20 and J-31.

Really?