My Question? Future equipment and tools of Pakistan Navy till 2025....

[Sine Nomine]

Unfortunately I hate the Navy they are useless idiots who only have a strong looby in JS headquarters and when they are given money these idiots make palatial houses and many other things , I will not mention.

If these rascals were that committed our navy wouldn't be in a such a pathetic state.

"Bahi kyo khoon jalata hai yeh andhar ke battey batla kar jo hum sun kar, khud say kehtey hay hamery kanoo nay ulta suna"

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

No my friend, its all about the priorities of the Govt.
If you have enough money, you can get what you want.

Someone i met over the holidays stated that there is some problem. Moreover he also stated that the aircraft procurement has an issue between PAF and PN. PAF wanted PN to have a fleet that is similar to the airforce as they can provide logistics and other support but the requirement of PN is different.

 

[CHI RULES]

Yes we do, who doesn't. I never said we should't.

Can you buy a BMW, when you only have enough to buy an Alto....

Dear Sir, cost is one issue meanwhile other two arms also suffered from lack of funds perhaps pros know much better. However some wrong decisions were taken in case of PN i.e acquiring F22P frigates with short range SAM, Avionics also not at par as compared to enemy, Still delaying decision to acquire deep penetration 4.5 th gen jets though required considering limited abilities of Mirage Vs, limited stealth factor in case of existing platforms, ASHMs with limited range no missile having range more than 280KM. Even still know no effort made to develop long range Naval cruise missile to challenge enemy ACs or heavy naval ships, ports at long distances.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Dear Sir, cost is one issue meanwhile other two arms also suffered from lack of funds perhaps pros know much better. However some wrong decisions were taken in case of PN i.e acquiring F22P frigates with short range SAM, Avionics also not at par as compared to enemy, Still delaying decision to acquire deep penetration 4.5 th gen jets though required considering limited abilities of Mirage Vs, limited stealth factor in case of existing platforms, ASHMs with limited range no missile having range more than 280KM. Even still know no effort made to develop long range Naval cruise missile to challenge enemy ACs or heavy naval ships, ports at long distances.

Fleet air defence has many layers starting from long range or Theater SAM, SR SAM and CIWS or Point defence.
So it was not a wrong decision. The next step would be Missile destroyers with Theater SAMs.

I being an aviator, personally do not agree with the need to have fighters in the Navy.

Air combat is altogether a separate specialization and takes decades to master and inculcate as a culture. PAF is tasked with the responsibility, so they are supposed to fulfill it. The PN has AShM on P-3Cs and Sea Kings. Land based fighters have a limited range and can only be used near land, which the PAF will take care off. Fighters only come in when we operate a carrier and that's not happening.

Do you know that the Royal Navy LRMPs Nimrod were flown by the RAF and not the RN, while they in service

We need to have a strong LRMP force along with ASW helicopters onboard.

Babur is a reality, even if we don't parade it around.

 

[shah1398]

Nothing the same thing we are using now.

So the proposed new Chinese Subs, F-22 frigates, new Squadrons of JF-17 etc dont count for new inductions?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Someone i met over the holidays stated that there is some problem. Moreover he also stated that the aircraft procurement has an issue between PAF and PN. PAF wanted PN to have a fleet that is similar to the airforce as they can provide logistics and other support but the requirement of PN is different.

There are always issues between services.

PAF commands the air while PN is suppose to command the seas, as long as we do what we are designed to do, all is fine.

 

[Tipu7]

There are always issues between services.

PAF commands the air while PN is suppose to command the seas, as long as we do what we are designed to do, all is fine.

In your opinion how such issues can be resolved?
Navy is forgotten child...... it will always be out beneath army and air force...... right now we already have a lot of work to do in PAF to compete with IAF ...... once quality advantage is taken, THEN we will focus on navy....... which will be too late....... I don't think our navy can stop IN for more than week to avoid naval blockage.........

 

[Ankit Kumar 001]

The list if I am optimistic
1. At least 4 Azmat class missile boats.
2. At least 4 more missile boats from Turkey .
3. At least 6 type041 submarine varients from China.
4. 1 Oiler
5. Some auxiliary ships like Global cutters, Landing ship Tank and Barges.
6. New ATR 72 to replace old Fockker SAR Aircrafts.
7. Some more Z9 helicopters .

Cheers
Thanks

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

In your opinion how such issues can be resolved?
Navy is forgotten child...... it will always be out beneath army and air force...... right now we already have a lot of work to do in PAF to compete with IAF ...... once quality advantage is taken, THEN we will focus on navy....... which will be too late....... I don't think our navy can stop IN for more than week to avoid naval blockage.........

There are no issues when we do what we are supposed to do.
Issues always come in when we cross each others domain.

 

[Tipu7]

There are no issues when we do what we are supposed to do.
Issues always come in when we cross each others domain.

So what must be done? We can't wait to get our backs kicked in sea.....

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

So what must be done? We can't wait to get our backs kicked in sea.....

What must be done, is being done by the Pakistan Navy.
No one is kicking our backs anywhere.

 

[21 Dec 2012]

BrahMos, though rather hyped up elsewhere, seems like a death star for Pakistan Navy. It should get serious about countering it, although China doesn't have any SAM capable to do it. Only Europe, US and Israel have it.

 

[Super Falcon]

I guess you all guys here think that we Navy guys don't want to buy anything new and just waste our time and publics money. It's very easy to brand us as "useless idiots" by members, but these useless idiots are the one who will die for the country.
I can't change your personal opinions.

When we joined the Navy and came to the fleet, we thought the same,
Why don't we have missile destroyers, modern frigates, nuclear submarines, F-14s, a heli carrier at least, but with the passage of time it all changed.

We are an Army dominated country, so all priorities are to build a strong Army and then the Airforce.

There is not shortage of brilliant minds in the Navy, who work day and night and do all the planning, but at the end all it comes down to is the budget and the govt's approval.

I have been a part of numerous studies for modern equipment during service, which were done keeping in mind the future, but they all remain as studies.

If modern equipment was the guarantee for a lethal Navy, then the Saudis would have been the most potent Navy in the region.

I am not giving explanations coz they don't matter, but the you only feel the heat when you come out under the sun.

Dear i agree with u but PN since 2004 did nothing onlt F 22P now almost 12 years passed if u count even 12 year budget they could bought 3 to 6 ships easily years are passing in decades but PN surface fleet remains the same znd when they buy they buy smaller boats why waste money on missile boats save i instead of buying 4 missile boat. better buy 1 destroyer

Most of navy is using retired ships from UK and USA

WE know there is money isdue if u combine 12 year budget and if u did not bought these boats we coukd have got better destroyers which we lack

Pakistan navy should call on army for emergancy to develop navy fkeet in 10 year programe ask army to reserve its budget a liitle to make pn buy better ships at the end of the day army dont want fighting in seas on fishing boats idiot admirals should make clear that we cant defend pak shores with this budget to afmy and govt u will see more money coming to u sleeping doing nothing

U 214 they talk only
milegam corvetes only talk

I agree with friend think tank of navy have plans only in papers and issue statements than nothing if u dont fet budget make ur self clear to nation and govt with this budget we cant defend pak in next ten years we need 16 surface ship other wise dont blame us we do our best but opponent with 200 ships 18 subs 3 carriers we are at mercy of enemy at sea not to forget p 8 posedion

 

[Mani2020]

Unfortunately navy is the weakest link in Pak military. Budget has been an issue for PN but same was the case with paf and army. During embargo PN and PAF didn't have the options to buy much stuff but as soon as embargoes were lifted we have seen how army and PAF used that option to buy multiple things from various sources on the other hand PN is more of a sitting duck. PN required new subs on urgent basis but what they did played around with u boats deal for so long without any results then suddenly someone woke them up n they moved to China.. In past couple of decades I would say 70 percent of the deals that were carried out by PN either were too late or didn't make any sense... in case war breaks out I would have least hopes from navy... even the countries with worst of defence budgets have navies that on paper look better than PN... no offense to anyone but that's what I have observed.. PN is better at sleeping... even coastal guards of some countries can give them extremely tough time with the type of shit our navy has

Fleet air defence has many layers starting from long range or Theater SAM, SR SAM and CIWS or Point defence.
So it was not a wrong decision. The next step would be Missile destroyers with Theater SAMs.

View attachment 239940​

I being an aviator, personally do not agree with the need to have fighters in the Navy.

Air combat is altogether a separate specialization and takes decades to master and inculcate as a culture. PAF is tasked with the responsibility, so they are supposed to fulfill it. The PN has AShM on P-3Cs and Sea Kings. Land based fighters have a limited range and can only be used near land, which the PAF will take care off. Fighters only come in when we operate a carrier and that's not happening.

Do you know that the Royal Navy LRMPs Nimrod were flown by the RAF and not the RN, while they in service

We need to have a strong LRMP force along with ASW helicopters onboard.

Babur is a reality, even if we don't parade it around.

Mate with all due respect all I can read through this is paf will do this paf will do that for us... if paf has to do all the work then I guess we should better dissolve the naval wing and give this equipment to our fishermen, May be they can handle enemy better with them... with decades old handful sea kings and p3c do you think we would have any chance against the latest tech our enemy will put against us... what we have f22Ps with limited capabilities... decade old retired frigatesfrom US and Uk and some old subs apart from Augusta 90B, which is the only potent weapon at this point in time. Unlike paf we cant say here that we have better men behind the machine to compensate for it. Sorry to say but navy has been an utter dissappointment

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

There are always issues between services.

PAF commands the air while PN is suppose to command the seas, as long as we do what we are designed to do, all is fine.

That is true but then no service is getting the required budgets...

In your opinion how such issues can be resolved?
Navy is forgotten child...... it will always be out beneath army and air force...... right now we already have a lot of work to do in PAF to compete with IAF ...... once quality advantage is taken, THEN we will focus on navy....... which will be too late....... I don't think our navy can stop IN for more than week to avoid naval blockage.........

Bro, there are offensive and defensive weapons available...Like we noramaly say that PAF somewhat lacks in deep penetration roles as compared to IAF. How ever PAF says they have this covered.

Navy also has some offensive weapons that can be used like the Submarines. and for defence F22p can do the job. Though SAM is what is required to protect the F-22P's from an aerial attack. This would also bring in PAF into the equation because they are supposed to intercept any areal threat and neutralize it.

If you see the post of @Rashid Mahmood you can understand what he is trying to explain. PN is protector of the seas so it should only think of protecting that by inducting what is best suited and available and not to venture into the domain of some other like Pakistan Army or Air Force. To keep the three forces to work together they must have a close working environment.